Quick question:
I cannot use more than one Rod of Metamagic on the same spell. I can, however channel a spell I already meta'ed by myself through a Rod of Metamagic, thus applying one more Meta effect (the rod's one) on the spell.
Now, what kind of Metamagic Rod of Quicken would I need to Rod-Quicken, say, an Empowered Fireball?
Would a Lesser Rod suffice (as the Fireball is Level 3, and Lesser Rods work on spells of level 1 through 3)?
Or would the Empower feat (which forces me to cast the spell from a level 5 slot) cause the spell to be 'effectively level 5', thus forcing me to employ at least a 'normal' Rod of Quicken (as these can handle spell levels up to six)
You need a lesser rod. The rod goes off of spell level. Empowering spell does not change its level, only the slot it uses. Now if you use the heighten spell feat then you might need a better rod since that would actually change the spell level.
The empowered fireball is considered a 5th level spell to the rod of quickening. So a lesser rod would not do it, instead you would need the 'mid' or greater version.
To Concerro....says in the metamatic rod section "In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast." Note: this only affects the spell level for purpose of the rod needed to be used, not for other level dependent factors like saves, etc. Would be silly having a lesser rod of quickening being used on some metamagic ladden 3rd level spell max out to 9th (like empowered maximized still fireball).
Normal metamagic rods can be used with spells of 6th level or lower. Lesser rods can be used with spells of 3rd level or lower, while greater rods can be used with spells of 9th level or lower.
In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell.
To me, that means it's the level of the spell, not the level of the slot needed to cast it. So you could have a maximized, empowered fireball that uses up an 8th level slot but gets quickened by a lesser rod.
The empowered fireball is considered a 5th level spell to the rod of quickening. So a lesser rod would not do it, instead you would need the 'mid' or greater version.
To Concerro....says in the metamatic rod section "In this case, only the feats possessed by the wielder adjust the spell slot of the spell being cast." Note: this only affects the spell level for purpose of the rod needed to be used, not for other level dependent factors like saves, etc. Would be silly having a lesser rod of quickening being used on some metamagic ladden 3rd level spell max out to 9th (like empowered maximized still fireball).
You are incorrect. Your quote says it adjust the slot which I already stated. It says nothing about the spell level, which is an entirely different thing.
The spell level changing affects everything while the slot does not.
Lesser and Greater Metamagic Rods: Normal metamagic rods can be used with spells of 6th level or lower. Lesser rods can be used with spells of 3rd level or lower, while greater rods can be used with spells of 9th level or lower
Metamagic FeatsAs a spellcaster's knowledge of magic grows, he can learn to cast spells in ways slightly different from the norm. Preparing and casting a spell in such a way is harder than normal but, thanks to metamagic feats, is at least possible. Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up.
There you see even the book says it changes the slot, but not the level, and the rods only go by level, not the slot.
edit:I see Bobson's quotes support mine. :)
I concede. Appears you can take up to a 3rd spell, then slap on as many metamagic feats put on with limit of your spell slot, then use a lesser metamagic rod.
Though I think its kinda OP but then it gives that edge to characters who invested into metamagic feats.
I'm going to have to disagree with this. This is somebody trying to get a power boost by taking a convoluted reading of the rules. Level in this case clearly means level of the spell slot being used.
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I initially came down on the side of needing a normal rod for the spell in the original example, and while some of the comments here argue against, I fully agreed with Forgotten that this was people looking to split hairs and get a power boost.
BUT
While I was considering it, I thought back to an old "Intelligence Check" article along these lines, and pulled this out:
It’s important to remember that metamagic increases the effective level of a spell, not its actual level; in other words, the size of the spell slot needed to cast it. The game rules lay this down very clearly; spells modified by a metamagic feat don’t use a higher save DC, for example. Hence, this is reflected in-game as well, and spells that use metamagic feats don’t utilize more lerans than they normally do without metamagic.
The rationale here is that a spell slot is different from a spell level. While that might sound like splitting hairs, it’s why you can prepare a lower-level spell in a higher-level spell slot, but doing so doesn’t lend it any additional power. You can prepare a fireball in a 4th-level spell slot, for example, but that lesser globe of invulnerability will still stop it cold.
From May 2011 Intelligence check
Bah, I apparently too often come down on the anti-player side, since just a few days ago I would fervently argue that there was just no way you could apply quicken spell to summon monster, and lo and behold the FAQ is altered to explicitly state this is fine.
Apparently, what I consider splitting hairs is becoming standard operating procedure.