RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Scenario: Rogue with the Shadow Strike feat, Major Magic rogue talent (obscuring mist), and the Stealth skill.
Round 1) He drops an obscuring mist as a standard action, getting both himself and his opponent in the area of effect. With his move action, he uses stealth to hide in the mist and move into a square adjacent to the opponent.
Round 2) He makes a full attack action on his enemy, gaining the advantage of sneak attack on his attacks (thanks to Shadow Strike) and then 5' steps away, gaining total concealment in the mist, and makes another Stealth check (which is listed as requiring no action since it is done as part of movement - in this case, a 5' step). Enemy moves into the square the rogue previously occupied, but must make a Perception check to find which square the rogue is now in due to the Stealth.
Round 3) Repeat until enemy dies or gets smart enough to leave the mist.
Is this legal? I will admit it's not exactly a game-breaking combo, since the enemy could very well leave the mist, dispel it, use scent or some other ability to pinpoint the rogue's square, etc. I just want to know if it is legal to 5' step into a square that gives total concealment and make a stealth check as part of that step.
Major Magic (Sp): A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 1st-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list two times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue's level. The save DC for this spell is 11 + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. The rogue must have an Intelligence of at least 11 to select this talent. A rogue must have the minor magic rogue talent before choosing this talent.
no can cast 3 level spell.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Major Magic (Sp): A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 1st-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list two times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue's level. The save DC for this spell is 11 + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. The rogue must have an Intelligence of at least 11 to select this talent. A rogue must have the minor magic rogue talent before choosing this talent.
no can cast 3 level spell.
Had the wrong spell name. Original post edited. Thanks for observing the wording of my post rather than the intention.
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Had the wrong spell name. Original post edited. Thanks for observing the wording of my post rather than the intention.Major Magic (Sp): A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 1st-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list two times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue's level. The save DC for this spell is 11 + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. The rogue must have an Intelligence of at least 11 to select this talent. A rogue must have the minor magic rogue talent before choosing this talent.
no can cast 3 level spell.
Still says fog cloud.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Still says fog cloud.Had the wrong spell name. Original post edited. Thanks for observing the wording of my post rather than the intention.Major Magic (Sp): A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 1st-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list two times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue's level. The save DC for this spell is 11 + the rogue's Intelligence modifier. The rogue must have an Intelligence of at least 11 to select this talent. A rogue must have the minor magic rogue talent before choosing this talent.
no can cast 3 level spell.
I hate you.
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Scenario: Rogue with the Shadow Strike feat, Major Magic rogue talent (obscuring mist), and the Stealth skill.
Round 1) He drops a obscuring mist as a standard action, getting both himself and his opponent in the area of effect. With his move action, he uses stealth to hide in the mist and move into a square adjacent to the opponent.
Round 2) He makes a full attack action on his enemy, gaining the advantage of sneak attack on his attacks (thanks to Shadow Strike) and then 5' steps away, gaining total concealment in the mist, and makes another Stealth check (which is listed as requiring no action since it is done as part of movement - in this case, a 5' step). Enemy moves into the square the rogue previously occupied, but must make a Perception check to find which square the rogue is now in due to the Stealth.
Round 3) Repeat until enemy dies or gets smart enough to leave the mist.
Is this legal? I will admit it's not exactly a game-breaking combo, since the enemy could very well leave the mist, dispel it, use scent or some other ability to pinpoint the rogue's square, etc. I just want to know if it is legal to 5' step into a square that gives total concealment and make a stealth check as part of that step.
Fixed. Muhuhahaha.
I'd allow it. I don't see any reason /not/ to allow it, other than 'The GM is a jerk'. Like you noted, there're /plenty/ of ways to step around it, from a pumped-up Perception skill to things like scent or just leaving the mist.
You may want to watch your tone, since you're asking people for help. Your posts are coming across as fairly hostile. Since this is the rules forum, and you're asking if a clearly illegal action is legal, I think the wording of your post is fairly important.
If the goal of your post is to ask if concealment allows you to use stealth, then yeah. "Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth."
Seems legal, and it requires two resources (talent and feat) to pull off, and only works once a day. Additionally, it's easy to stop by just moving out of the mist, so yeah, looks good.
and you're asking if a clearly illegal action is legal
Since I don't see anything illegal about it, please point out the clearly illegal action? I admit, I may have missed something.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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I'd allow it. I don't see any reason /not/ to allow it, other than 'The GM is a jerk'. Like you noted, there're /plenty/ of ways to step around it, from a pumped-up Perception skill to things like scent or just leaving the mist.
The combination becomes much more effective (but still far from game-wrecking) when the rogue's party members make it more difficult for the target to leave the mist, whether by hedging him in with a wall of force or simply providing lots of threatened squares. It's an excellent mechanism for a rogue to get in and mix it up with an enemy spellcaster or archer whose inability to target anything (due to not being able to SEE it) seriously hampers his effectiveness.
You accurately strike even those you cannot clearly see.Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can deal precision damage, such as sneak attack damage, against targets with concealment (but not total concealment).
A bank of fog billows out from the point you designate. The fog obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature within 5 feet has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker can't use sight to locate the target).
Check: Your Stealth check is opposed by the Perception check of anyone who might notice you. You can move up to half your normal speed and use Stealth at no penalty. When moving at a speed greater than half but less than your normal speed, you take a –5 penalty. It's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.
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If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth. If your observers are momentarily distracted (such as by a Bluff check), you can attempt to use Stealth. While the others turn their attention from you, you can attempt a Stealth check if you can get to an unobserved place of some kind. This check, however, is made at a –10 penalty because you have to move fast.
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Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
After going over these, it seems legit. But the target still gets a perception chance every time.
What is the name of the spell he's really using so ?
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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For the record, the spell was obscuring mist, not fog cloud. I edited the original post, but for some reason it shows to me and not other people (and it still says fog cloud on the preview mouseover from the main forums). Weird, but yes, the meat of my question was "can you stealth after a 5' step into concealment." The exact spell in question was immaterial.
Thank you all for the validations. :)
It's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.
Wouldn't stealth drop after the first attack in the full-attack routine?
Shadow Strike means you can sneak attack a guy that has concealment, not that you gain sneak attack with every attack made from concealment.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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It's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.Wouldn't stealth drop after the first attack in the full-attack routine?
Shadow Strike means you can sneak attack a guy that has concealment, not that you gain sneak attack with every attack made from concealment.
Yes, but then you step into the fog and make a new Stealth check (since you now have total concealment against your target). The target would have to find you all over again... and you can make another surprise attack in the following round.
Yes, but then you step into the fog and make a new Stealth check (since you now have total concealment against your target). The target would have to find you all over again... and you can make another surprise attack in the following round.It's impossible to use Stealth while attacking, running, or charging.Wouldn't stealth drop after the first attack in the full-attack routine?
Shadow Strike means you can sneak attack a guy that has concealment, not that you gain sneak attack with every attack made from concealment.
Ah, but what he's saying is that you only get stealth for the first iterative attack on a full-attack. Which makes sense.
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Wouldn't stealth drop after the first attack in the full-attack routine?
Shadow Strike means you can sneak attack a guy that has concealment, not that you gain sneak attack with every attack made from concealment.
If an opponent is flat-footed, you can apply your sneak attack damage to every successful hit. It's not like after the first hit the enemy is suddenly not flat-footed.
Now, as a GM, I would not be okay with the rogue making a stealth check as part of a 5 foot step. In the stealth text already quoted, it is said a check is made as part of a move action. A 5 foot step is a 'Miscellaneous Action,' and therefore not a pure 'Move Action.' This means a stealth check cannot be made as part of a 5 foot step.
[edit]Ninja'd by james! /Shakes fist
[edit2]And james is right in his assessment that Obscuring Mist could make a 5 foot step impossible. Hampered Movement: Difficult terrain, obstacles, and poor visibility can hamper movement (see Table: Hampered Movement for details). When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move.. Obscuring Mist definitely causes poor visibility, and therefore means movement takes up x2 as many squares - meaning 5 foot steps are impossible.
If an opponent is flat-footed, you can apply your sneak attack damage to every successful hit. It's not like after the first hit the enemy is suddenly not flat-footed.
Before he's acted, sure. Surprise round, and if the Rogue wins initiative. But during other rounds of combat, the opponent is not flat-footed, he's just denied dex, which allows the rogue to sneak attack (once).
Round 1) He drops an obscuring mist as a standard action, getting both himself and his opponent in the area of effect. With his move action, he uses stealth to hide in the mist and move into a square adjacent to the opponent.
Round 2) He makes a full attack action on his enemy, gaining the advantage of sneak attack on his attacks (thanks to Shadow Strike) and then 5' steps away, gaining total concealment in the mist, and makes another Stealth check (which is listed as requiring no action since it is done as part of movement - in this case, a 5' step). Enemy moves into the square the rogue previously occupied, but must make a Perception check to find which square the rogue is now in due to the Stealth.
Round 3) Repeat until enemy dies or gets smart enough to leave the mist.
Round 1, ok, that should work fine.
Round 2, no, stealth doesn't work that way. When you're hiding adjacent to an enemy (due to concealment) and have taken an action that causes you to become spotted, you no longer are using stealth. So you would be considered invisible to your opponent at the first attack, but for the additional attacks, the enemy can see you.
The 5 ft. step thing is a bit of a can of worms, but here it goes. . .
You can't make a stealth check making the 5 ft. step away. During that movement, you are being observed (assuming you attacked). When you reach the square you are moving to (5 ft. away), two things happen:
* You're out of movement.
* You're not visible.
So the question becomes: can you use stealth with no action? Remember, you didn't use stealth as part of the 5 ft. step -- you were visible when moving that way.
I think you can use a stealth check with no action. The example is invisibility. If you're standing still while invisible, an enemy rolls an opposed perception check against your stealth check. So I think it's probably fair to do so. . . although I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of GMs would say you need an action of some kind to use stealth (because you're not truly invisible).
Round 3 is also ok.
So really, the full attack thing is the only true problem. Using Spring Attack seems like a much nastier option using this same strategy.
If an opponent is flat-footed, you can apply your sneak attack damage to every successful hit. It's not like after the first hit the enemy is suddenly not flat-footed.Before he's acted, sure. Surprise round, and if the Rogue wins initiative. But during other rounds of combat, the opponent is not flat-footed, he's just denied dex, which allows the rogue to sneak attack (once).
When denied your DEX, you are flat footed.
So Sneak attack applies to all attacks that round.
When denied your DEX, you are flat footed.
So Sneak attack applies to all attacks that round.
Not true. Example: feinting.
Not true. Example: feinting.When denied your DEX, you are flat footed.
So Sneak attack applies to all attacks that round.
Isn't feinting also a move action, so only one attack is allowed.
Wouldn't stealth drop after the first attack in the full-attack routine?
Shadow Strike means you can sneak attack a guy that has concealment, not that you gain sneak attack with every attack made from concealment.
If an opponent is flat-footed, you can apply your sneak attack damage to every successful hit. It's not like after the first hit the enemy is suddenly not flat-footed.
Now, as a GM, I would not be okay with the rogue making a stealth check as part of a 5 foot step. In the stealth text already quoted, it is said a check is made as part of a move action. A 5 foot step is a 'Miscellaneous Action,' and therefore not a pure 'Move Action.' This means a stealth check cannot be made as part of a 5 foot step.
[edit]Ninja'd by james! /Shakes fist
Actually Stealth doesn't say move action, it says as part of movement. A subtle nuance, to be sure.
For example, look at the Climb skill:
ActionClimbing is part of movement, so it’s generally part of a move action (and may be combined with other types of movement in a move action). Each move action that includes any climbing requires a separate Climb check. Catching yourself or another falling character doesn’t take an action.
Note that movement and move action are not one and the same (but generally coincide).
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Now, as a GM, I would not be okay with the rogue making a stealth check as part of a 5 foot step. In the stealth text already quoted, it is said a check is made as part of a move action. A 5 foot step is a 'Miscellaneous Action,' and therefore not a pure 'Move Action.' This means a stealth check cannot be made as part of a 5 foot step.
[edit]Ninja'd by james! /Shakes fist
[edit2]And james is right in his assessment that Obscuring Mist could make a 5 foot step impossible. Hampered Movement: Difficult terrain, obstacles, and poor visibility can hamper movement (see Table: Hampered Movement for details). When movement is hampered, each square moved into usually counts as two squares, effectively reducing the distance that a character can cover in a move.. Obscuring Mist definitely causes poor visibility, and therefore means movement takes up x2 as many squares - meaning 5 foot steps are impossible.
Not to be pedantic, but it actually states that Stealth is made as part of movement, not as part of a move action.
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
With regards to poor visibility and hampered movement, squares adjacent to you in an obscuring mist are only partially concealed (20% miss chance) rather than entirely obscured (50%). If moving into a 20% concealment square counts as hampered movement, then is a character's movement similarly restricted in dim light, which carries the same concealment penalties? Or does it only apply to actual darkness (total concealment)?
Isn't feinting also a move action, so only one attack is allowed.Not true. Example: feinting.When denied your DEX, you are flat footed.
So Sneak attack applies to all attacks that round.
The example was that feinting causes you to lose your Dex bonus to AC without causing you to become flat-footed.
Flat-footed causes you to lose your Dex bonus to AC (usually).
Losing your Dex bonus to AC doesn't cause you to become flat-footed.
When denied your DEX, you are flat footed.
It's the other way around.
Flat-footed means you are denied your dex, and you cannot make attacks of opportunity. This occurs before you you have acted in combat.
Denied dex is simply denied dex. You can still make AoOs.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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You can't make a stealth check making the 5 ft. step away. During that movement, you are being observed (assuming you attacked). When you reach the square you are moving to (5 ft. away), two things happen:
* You're out of movement.
* You're not visible.
So the question becomes: can you use stealth with no action? Remember, you didn't use stealth as part of the 5 ft. step -- you were visible when moving that way.
You were visible, yes, but you still had concealment (20% miss chance) which is all that is required to make a stealth check. When you reach your destination, you now have total concealment (50% miss chance). So yes, you could actually use stealth as part of that movement by your interpretation.
Isn't feinting also a move action, so only one attack is allowed.Not true. Example: feinting.When denied your DEX, you are flat footed.
So Sneak attack applies to all attacks that round.The example was that feinting causes you to lose your Dex bonus to AC without causing you to become flat-footed.
Flat-footed causes you to lose your Dex bonus to AC (usually).
Losing your Dex bonus to AC doesn't cause you to become flat-footed.
So I got "When denied your DEX, you are flat footed." backwards, I accept that when I quickly checked it,
But Rogue does get a full set of sneak attacks if the target is denied his DEX
Sneak Attack: If a rogue can catch an opponent when he
is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she
can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The rogue’s attack deals extra damage anytime her
target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether
the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when
the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is 1d6
at 1st level, and increases by 1d6 every two rogue levels
thereafter. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a
sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied. Ranged
attacks can count as sneak attacks only if the target is
within 30 feet.
Checkmate
Round 2) He makes a full attack action on his enemy, gaining the advantage of sneak attack on his attacks (thanks to Shadow Strike) and then 5' steps away, gaining total concealment in the mist, and makes another Stealth check (which is listed as requiring no action since it is done as part of movement - in this case, a 5' step)Incorrect in that only applies if "it as done as part of a move ACTION" which a 5 foot step is not.
Sadly, there's a lot of wiggle room here. The stealth skill doesn't imply that you have to make a move action to use stealth, just "as part of movement". The 5 ft. step is movement but it isn't movement. Shrug (:
Isn't feinting also a move action, so only one attack is allowed.Not true. Example: feinting.When denied your DEX, you are flat footed.
So Sneak attack applies to all attacks that round.
Usually, but there's an ability that makes it swift, I think. Regardless, feint only works on the next attack, not the rest of the current or next round.
Checkmate
In the case we're discussing, the enemy is only denied his Dex bonus for one attack. At that point, the enemy is observing the rogue and is no longer denied his Dex bonus.
You can't use stealth while being observed. If someone is hitting you with a dagger and standing right in front of you, you can observe them. (barring special abilities, etc)
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Actually Stealth doesn't say move action, it says as part of movement. A subtle nuance, to be sure.
Note that movement and move action are not one and the same (but generally coincide).
In the text for Stealth, it says (emphasis mine):
Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action.
This means it is done as part of a movement action, or move action, and does not eat up any other action. A movement action is a move action. A 5 foot step is not a movement action, it is a Miscellaneous Action as I have quoted before. Unfortunately, you do not get free stealth checks if you are making a 5 foot step.
But this is an exercise in futility as you cannot make 5 foot steps when you have poor vision, like what is caused by Obscuring Mist.
As far as when sneak attack applies, I've always been under the assumption that sneak attack damage happens for every successful hit on a full-round attack in a case where you have 'Invisibility' cast on you. It's just you get that one round of awesomeness, but the next round you won't be applying your sneak attack damage because the enemy knows you are now there. Feinting is different because it calls out specifically your next melee attack, not your next attack action.
You were visible, yes, but you still had concealment (20% miss chance) which is all that is required to make a stealth check. When you reach your destination, you now have total concealment (50% miss chance). So yes, you could actually use stealth as part of that movement by your interpretation.You can't make a stealth check making the 5 ft. step away. During that movement, you are being observed (assuming you attacked). When you reach the square you are moving to (5 ft. away), two things happen:
* You're out of movement.
* You're not visible.
So the question becomes: can you use stealth with no action? Remember, you didn't use stealth as part of the 5 ft. step -- you were visible when moving that way.
No. You may have the concealment, but you're being observed. You can't make a stealth check while being observed.
When you reach your destination, you're out of actions. So either you stealth as a free action (maybe dropping prone?), you don't stealth, or you're effectively invisible (and make a stealth check from that).
All of that is essentially GM dependent. The free action hide by dropping prone is probably the easiest to adjudicate, but most rogues don't want to drop prone to hide.
[Not to be pedantic, but it actually states that Stealth is made as part of movement, not as part of a move action.Movement only takes place during move actions. 5 foot steps are not normal movement. Same rule as part of weapon draws it's done during a move action not a 5 foot step.
): I feel your pain, but stealth applies to *any* movement, not just "normal" movement. I know what you're saying, but the rules are pretty vague here.
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If an opponent can't see you then he is denied his dex. Which means a rogue can make a sneak attack against him. So is the question whether or not he can take sneak attack damage on all of his successful attacks?
Some people believe that you only get to apply sneak attack damage to one attack in a full attack action? Is it possible we can find a rule quote supporting this position?
Other people believe that you get to apply sneak attack damage to all attacks in a full attack action? Could we also find a rule quote supporting this position?
If we can just get them together it will be easier for people to make their decision on the legality of this situation.
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Sadly, there's a lot of wiggle room here. The stealth skill doesn't imply that you have to make a move action to use stealth, just "as part of movement". The 5 ft. step is movement but it isn't movement. Shrug (:Round 2) He makes a full attack action on his enemy, gaining the advantage of sneak attack on his attacks (thanks to Shadow Strike) and then 5' steps away, gaining total concealment in the mist, and makes another Stealth check (which is listed as requiring no action since it is done as part of movement - in this case, a 5' step)Incorrect in that only applies if "it as done as part of a move ACTION" which a 5 foot step is not.
Yeah, this one's iffy. The Sniping rules shed a little light on this, requiring a move action to make the stealth check. Though the melee attack isn't sniping, the concept is similar - strike and move. Meh, I think I'd just err in favor of the player on this one. Even though it's only a 5' step, the attacker is "slipping back into the mists." Even if observed, he fades from view. I can't see a legitimate reason not to allow the stealth check vs. the target's perception. Simply because the attacker is moving into an area of concealment, 5'-step or not, I think I'd allow it.
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): I feel your pain, but stealth applies to *any* movement, not just "normal" movement. I know what you're saying, but the rules are pretty vague here.
There is no such thing as a "movement action." When movement is talked about in the Core, it is always in relation to a "move action." Hence, you must realize that when "movement" is talked about, it is always in reference to what you can do during a "move action."
CheckmateIn the case we're discussing, the enemy is only denied his Dex bonus for one attack. At that point, the enemy is observing the rogue and is no longer denied his Dex bonus.
You can't use stealth while being observed. If someone is hitting you with a dagger and standing right in front of you, you can observe them. (barring special abilities, etc)
True hitting someone with a dagger and standing right in front of them, they can observe you, but they could be n shock of the first attack and thus get a full set of sneak attacks in, Now what about attacking from behind, where MOST SMART rogues would attack from, no observation there.
Now for this senario, an invisible rogue (Jack) gets next to say a guard (one who is on guard, but fails to notice Jack), the guard is not only Denied DEX, but flat-footed. would Jack not get his full set of sneak attacks? I believe he does, Even if the guard knew he was there Jack could still get a full set of Sneak attacks on him in the first go.
Yeah, this one's iffy. The Sniping rules shed a little light on this, requiring a move action to make the stealth check. Though the melee attack isn't sniping, the concept is similar - strike and move. Meh, I think I'd just err in favor of the player on this one. Even though it's only a 5' step, the attacker is "slipping back into the mists." Even if observed, he fades from view. I can't see a legitimate reason not to allow the stealth check vs. the target's perception.
The act of moving (the 5 ft. step) is observed. The stealth check is tied to the actual movement itself. The question becomes what happens *after* the movement. And that's a can of worms. This hasn't been a problem generally because rogues really haven't had an option like Shadow Strike before.
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Yeah, this one's iffy. The Sniping rules shed a little light on this, requiring a move action to make the stealth check. Though the melee attack isn't sniping, the concept is similar - strike and move. Meh, I think I'd just err in favor of the player on this one. Even though it's only a 5' step, the attacker is "slipping back into the mists." Even if observed, he fades from view. I can't see a legitimate reason not to allow the stealth check vs. the target's perception. Simply because the attacker is moving into an area of concealment, 5'-step or not, I think I'd simply allow it.
Already taken care of. You can't take a 5 foot step in a mist because it has poor visibility, and therefore any sort of movement of a character costs x2. Like difficult terrain, you can't take 5 foot steps when you have poor visibility.
): I feel your pain, but stealth applies to *any* movement, not just "normal" movement. I know what you're saying, but the rules are pretty vague here.There is no such thing as a "movement action." When movement is talked about in the Core, it is always in relation to a "move action." Hence, you must realize that when "movement" is talked about, it is always in reference to what you can do during a "move action."
That's not true, there's examples of movement as an immediate action (following step). There's also a standard action to move (while prone).
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Yeah, this one's iffy. The Sniping rules shed a little light on this, requiring a move action to make the stealth check. Though the melee attack isn't sniping, the concept is similar - strike and move. Meh, I think I'd just err in favor of the player on this one. Even though it's only a 5' step, the attacker is "slipping back into the mists." Even if observed, he fades from view. I can't see a legitimate reason not to allow the stealth check vs. the target's perception.The act of moving (the 5 ft. step) is observed. The stealth check is tied to the actual movement itself. The question becomes what happens *after* the movement. And that's a can of worms. This hasn't been a problem generally because rogues really haven't had an option like Shadow Strike before.
Indeed. Perhaps another approach is to require the rogue to make the stealth check in the following round, assuming the target hasn't followed him into his previously-occupied square. If the rogue starts the next round still concealed, then allow him to stealth. I dunno... As I previously stated, when the rules are gray on these things, I generally err on the side of the PC, rather than getting all hung-up on the finer points of the wording in the rules. The rogue is moving (check). The rogue is moving into an area of concealment (check). Make stealth check. Seems reasonable.
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Already taken care of. You can't take a 5 foot step in a mist because it has poor visibility, and therefore any sort of movement of a character costs x2. Like difficult terrain, you can't take 5 foot steps when you have poor visibility.
Sorry but no. You have poor visibility at 10 feet, not 5 feet. So you can 5ft adjust in a mist.
Any other ruling would mean that you can't move 5 ft in dim light either, since it has the exact same penalties to sight as obscuring mist.
Honestly, the way I read it after reading the thread is this :
Round 1 : Pop up mist, move and make stealth check while moving.
Round 2 : Sneak attack on one attack. 5 ft adjust and stealth.
Round 3 : Move/Stealth and Sneak attack. Take attack from enemy.
Round 4 : Attack normally once. 5 ft Adjust and stealth.
Repeat until mist is gone, you die, or he dies.
Obviously, if the guy moves after you, you can attack/adjust again instead of move/attack.
It's not all that powerful, and it can be defeated in various ways. The biggest issue is that you have to have some way of finding the guy once you've adjusted if he doesn't follow you but moves. It's a real corner case, and I don't see the rogue getting more than 1 or 2 hits with it. The only exception would be if he had 3-4 targets in the mist, he could just move/stealth until he could find a new target to attack.