"Toon" doesn't make sense anywhere.
Are you sure about that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toon_(role-playing_game)
"Toon" doesn't make sense anywhere.Are you sure about that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toon_(role-playing_game)
I mean outside of cartoons and things meant to be interpreted as cartoons.
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For me, lingo depends on your zip code (or server now). We used to call a 'Tank' a Caster with a huge AC. It doesnt bother insomuch as long as the persons involved can adjust from tabletop to Comp and vice versa. I've played since Basic (D&D AND Comp Language) and have seen the evolution of gamer speak. If I have one pet peeve is intentional misspelling (Noobz, Leet, H8terz). It seems pedantic and lazy. Other things I can get over. Bottom Line:
We're a RP PVP Server, RP and Naming Conventions are strictly enforced. If they're good with that, they're welcome. If they're not willing to adjust and learn, do we really need them?
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I just hate mixin the two. That is all. MMO terminology has a place in MMOs...Tabletop terminology has a place in tabletop games.
I think that MMOs are much much much simpler then tabletop rpgs, much more restrictive and much less deep and immersive. Thus i take offense when somebody treats my game as an mmo. Or worse expects my game to behave like an mmo.
Also, i jus't don't like simplifying things that need no simplification. The term monster is perfectly fine. There is no need to call it a mob.
The term meat-shield is perfectly fine and there is no need to use tank. The term multiple target mind-affecting spell is perfectl fine and there is no need to say cc.
We are humans at a table. We can speak the words. There is no rush. No time limit imposed on speech. No need to contract words that should not be contracted in the first place. No need to downgrade our comunication skills down to internet chatroom level.
I swear to atheism, if i ever hear somebody actualy say lol instead of laughing, i'm gonna smack them.
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To make that more clear. A computer may be able to replicate gameplay at some tables. It can't replicate mine. That may sound snobbish or elitist or condescending (can you be condescending to a computer?), but it's still true.
Same here. No computer can outthink me. They can't outthink anyone. Because they can't think. You can make scripts but all scripts can ever do is react to defined situations. A GM can react to everything, including "I'm going to put explosives in a piñata and send it to the target's kid's birthday party." Just to pick something at random.
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I just hate mixin the two.
Thus i take offense when somebody treats my game as an mmo. Or worse expects my game to behave like an mmo.
Also, i jus't don't like simplifying things that need no simplification.
I swear to atheism, if i ever hear somebody actualy say lol instead of laughing, i'm gonna smack them.
Which I why I posted my silly little comment.
You don't like the way people talk. There's nothing wrong with that. But getting mad at them for it is silly.
Using MMO jargon does not instantly mean they are expecting/treating your game like an MMO.
I would much rather you kick a player for actually treating your game like an MMO instead of kicking him because he said 'tank' or 'mob'.
And I would hope you would ask him to stop first instead of booting him without warning.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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A GM can react to everything, including "I'm going to put explosives in a piñata and send it to the target's kid's birthday party." Just to pick something at random.
Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that you're lying about that being a "random" example? ;)
@Yoss - I'm a little confused on why you (and others) hate on the term "build".
Bad connotations. It smacks of roll-playing. People aren't talking about characters (with personalities and the like), they're talking about builds. They're doing a build. That's sure to win!
A GM can react to everything, including "I'm going to put explosives in a piñata and send it to the target's kid's birthday party." Just to pick something at random.Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that you're lying about that being a "random" example? ;)
I don't know? Do you have a son or daughter? When's his/her birthday? Did you order a piñata?
You really enjoy contradicting people.EL, we're contradicting _each_other_.
And, by the way...
You don't really check yourself for irony I gather.
The only reason for the dissonance on MMO terminology is tribalism. What I said is basically true to the best of my knowledge, you only contradicted it to say something you thought was clever, and now you're not backing down. And this is why I generally try to avoid conversing with you. Good day, sir.
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"Welcome to Southville!"
"Thanks. Can you recommend an inn?"
"Welcome to Southville!"
"Yeah, you said. I need something clean and reasonably priced. I don't need luxury, just some place where I can have food that won't make me sick, a bath, and then a decent bed without vermin in it.
"Welcome to Southville!"
"What are you, retarded?
"Welcome to Southville!"
"I give up. Time to die!"
"Welcome to Southville!"
"Why can't I attack you? What sort of nightmare is this????"
"Welcome to Southville!"
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAH!"
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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@Yoss - I'm a little confused on why you (and others) hate on the term "build".Bad connotations. It smacks of roll-playing. People aren't talking about characters (with personalities and the like), they're talking about builds. They're doing a build. That's sure to win!
So to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, the general consensus (at least around here) is that "build" [your definition] is taken to mean "build [Jiggy's definition] minus the accompanying character concept"?
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I just hate mixin the two.
Thus i take offense when somebody treats my game as an mmo. Or worse expects my game to behave like an mmo.
Also, i jus't don't like simplifying things that need no simplification.
I swear to atheism, if i ever hear somebody actualy say lol instead of laughing, i'm gonna smack them.
Which I why I posted my silly little comment.
You don't like the way people talk. There's nothing wrong with that. But getting mad at them for it is silly.
Using MMO jargon does not instantly mean they are expecting/treating your game like an MMO.
I would much rather you kick a player for actually treating your game like an MMO instead of kicking him because he said 'tank' or 'mob'.
And I would hope you would ask him to stop first instead of booting him without warning.
Of course i would...i'm not an a!@@~%*. Trust me, one of my players made an almost unhittable fighter (ac31 at level 5) and then got annoyed when nobody attacked him more then twice, some not even once.
He b@!@&ed about the fact that he cannot tank, because there is no aggro, so demanded that i put aggro in the game as a mechanic. So i told him that he can show himself out for good if he ever demands of me to put aggro in a pnp game.
I mean outside of cartoons and things meant to be interpreted as cartoons."Toon" doesn't make sense anywhere.Are you sure about that?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toon_(role-playing_game)
I figured as much...but it got me thinking of that old game so I posted a link to it.
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If my medical doctor ever calls my brain stem my "spark plugs" or my gallbladder my "carborator" in my medical records or tells me I need my wheels balanced when he means I should get a medical massage, I'm going to find a new doctor.
But you're not going to be MAD about it and complain on a message board about it. You're just going to leave, or maybe explain to him why you aren't continuing on as his patient.
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But you're not going to be MAD about it and complain on a message board about it. You're just going to leave, or maybe explain to him why you aren't continuing on as his patient.
If my medical doctor ever calls my brain stem my "spark plugs" or my gallbladder my "carborator" in my medical records or tells me I need my wheels balanced when he means I should get a medical massage, I'm going to find a new doctor.
Maybe will complain on a blog perhaps? :D
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Of course i would...i'm not an a%*%%*#. Trust me, one of my players made an almost unhittable fighter (ac31 at level 5) and then got annoyed when nobody attacked him more then twice, some not even once.
Why did no one attack him? Did the golem suddenly think to himself 'man this guy it too hard, let me go find something easier'? Did the thug suddenly say 'no use attacking that warrior, let me kill his friends'?
Are all your monsters tactical geniuses that can decide in six seconds that someone is unbeatable?
I would have booted the player for getting pissy about my DMing, not his choice of language. You're getting upset over the symptom, not the problem.
If I had been in his shoes, I would have been roleplaying up a cocky arrogance, insulting the cowards that wouldn't face him.
Relax everybody, it's just gaming. Please post civilly to each other.
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Well, if you're a bandit, who would you rather attack...a guy so covered in steel that only his eyes are showing, brandishing a sword and a shield the size of a door, or a guy dressed in robes who just fried two of your comrades?
As for mindless mosnters, of course they will keep attacking their initial target, no matter how unhittable it proves...bu i haven't used any golems yet...just vermin.
@ Liz: Dunno...stopped considering it "just" gaming a long time ago. I tend to take things that i devote several hours of my time a week seriously. But the civil thing, you are right. There is no need to be rude.
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Well, if you're a bandit, who would you rather attack...a guy so covered in steel that only his eyes are showing, brandishing a sword and a shield the size of a door, or a guy dressed in robes who just fried two of your comrades?
Depends. Do I have to go through the iron foundry to get to the pajama store? If I do, I'm going to be real leery, because getting stabbed hurts and I like to avoid that. So I will probably circle at a safe distance. But of course, Mr. Ironpants will probably move to keep blocking my path, so that may or may not work.
Isn't this that roleplaying thing that people say rollplayers can't do? ;)
"Welcome to Southville!"
"Thanks. Can you recommend an inn?"
"Welcome to Southville!"
"Yeah, you said. I need something clean and reasonably priced. I don't need luxury, just some place where I can have food that won't make me sick, a bath, and then a decent bed without vermin in it.
"Welcome to Southville!"
"What are you, retarded?
"Welcome to Southville!"
"I give up. Time to die!"
"Welcome to Southville!"
"Why can't I attack you? What sort of nightmare is this????"
"Welcome to Southville!"
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAH!"
"Welcome to false and unfunny ignorant assertion of how video games work."
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"Welcome to false and unfunny ignorant assertion of how video games work.""Welcome to Southville!"
"Thanks. Can you recommend an inn?"
"Welcome to Southville!"
"Yeah, you said. I need something clean and reasonably priced. I don't need luxury, just some place where I can have food that won't make me sick, a bath, and then a decent bed without vermin in it.
"Welcome to Southville!"
"What are you, retarded?
"Welcome to Southville!"
"I give up. Time to die!"
"Welcome to Southville!"
"Why can't I attack you? What sort of nightmare is this????"
"Welcome to Southville!"
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAH!"
Of MMOs though it is quite correct...
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So, the only way that somebody can talk about something they don't like on a messageboard about RPGs is if they get MAD about it and complain? There's no way to just have a discussion about something we don't like?
Actually, no. We can totally talk about things like that. It's just SILLY to be MAD about it while we do. :P
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I guess we've just got differences of perspective on this discussion. The only one I see ranting and raving is Cartigan - but he can't help himself. Everybody else is making an effort to listen to one another and make cogent arguments.
Just so. I actually only read the OP and responded. I certainly could have misread his tone. I just think vocabulary is a silly thing to get upset over.
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Personally, I do get annoyed at the use of MMO vocabulary in a tabletop game. Not actually angry, unless they're clearly persisting to piss me off after I've asked them to stop, but annoyed.
I'm annoyed that "tank" doesn't mean "the guy who is both armored and dangerous" but rather now means "someone who sacrifices offense completely for defense, then has to somehow hold the attention of monsters". That's not a tank. That's an APC. I'm also mildly annoyed when it's used as a verb to mean "holding the attention of monsters".
I'm annoyed at both the misuse and mispronunciation of 'mob' to mean the monsters that I control as a DM. My monsters are monsters. Or NPC's. Critters. Creatures. Not mobile objects.
And the use of 'toon' is just silly. I can't take folks seriously when they use that term.
I think the root of this is MMO players who expect a tabletop RPG to conform to their MMO experience. Or such players who think that MMO experience makes them great tabletop gamers. (Pro-tip: It won't, and it doesn't.)
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All that's needed for effective communication is an understanding of the idea being expressed by the other person. If you know what somebody means when they say "tank" but refuse to acknowledge it, you are the barrier to effective communication.
No i just refuse to comunicate in an semi-literal fashion. I prefer my language being a language thank you very much.
I hate people who say that it doesn't matter how you say it as long as you understand what is being said. That is BS.
Would you go to the dinner with the queen and then say:"F**k queen woman, this meat loaf s**t is the bomb!"
No you wouldn't...proper speech is important...
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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No i just refuse to comunicate in an semi-literal fashion. I prefer my language being a language thank you very much.
This comment, combined with your typical posts' usage of capitalization, punctuation, and so forth, makes me giggle. ;)
Would you go to the dinner with the queen and then say:"F**k queen woman, this meat loaf s**t is the bomb!"
All hail Queen Hama...? ;)
Anyway, I just have one question for this thread: does ANYONE know where this "toon" term came from? It's going to bug me all week if no one tells me. :SCould it be from this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toon_(role-playing_game)
I actualy think characters were called Toons...it was soo long ago though I don't remember.
Actually, I think if you look under the disambiguation of "toon" it is just as likely that it is derived from war games and refering to a platoon.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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What do i do wrong? Please tell me. English is not my first language, and i am trying to use it as properly as i can.
This comment, combined with your typical posts' usage of capitalization, punctuation, and so forth, makes me giggle. ;)
My apologies; I didn't realize it wasn't your first language. With that in mind, you use it pretty well.
I feel weird now, but since you asked, one thing would be that the pronoun "I" (referring to the speaker) should be capitalized. For instance: "What do I do wrong?" instead of "What do i do wrong?".
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What do i do wrong? Please tell me. English is not my first language, and i am trying to use it as properly as i can.
This comment, combined with your typical posts' usage of capitalization, punctuation, and so forth, makes me giggle. ;)
My apologies; I didn't realize it wasn't your first language. With that in mind, you use it pretty well.
I feel weird now, but since you asked, one thing would be that the pronoun "I" (referring to the speaker) should be capitalized. For instance: "What do I do wrong?" instead of "What do i do wrong?".
Oh, well, actualy, I do it because I think that capitalising I seems kinda arrogant. :D And it's a bother to hit shift all the time for that.
Is the Queen understanding what is being said? Than the idea has been communicated effectively. Does she know what's being said but is refusing to acknowledge it? Than she is refusing to communicate effectively. Does she have no idea what is being said? Than effective communication has not been achieved.
One's preference as to HOW people should communicate has little to do with whether or not effective communication is being achieved.
I put as much stock in HOW is something said as in whether i understand the meaning of the words. Excuse me, but i would rather not understand then understand and cringe.
@ TOZ: Yes...literate...sorry
It drives me insane when i hear a player of mine tell the fighter to "kite" the BBEG, or when he says he is going to make a tank. Or when the wizard says that he wants to be good at cc (crowd control). I have told them to drop the terminology or find another GM. They have, thanfully stopped using it. With small relapses.
I don't care how much wow a week you play. I don't care how imprinted that terminology in your brain is. I don't care how cool it sounds to you. Use it at my table and you will be asked to either shut up or leave.
One of the main reasons i rarely ask consummate MMO players to join my table. It annoys me to no end.
Oh, yeah.
I used to hate on people, too, for using widely-understood and applicable terminology to refer to things that I held near and dear and would call something else.
Then I grew up.