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So I am interested in Mounted combat clarifications. I have searched the archives and come up with several different answers from different posts most of them contradicting each other and none of them seem to be by anyone official. Also there are a lot of posts on the topic so it seems many other people have asked the same questions even if the answers they get vary greatly. I’m hoping that this could get FAQ’d or get a nice Paizo employees attention to clarify the issue. Even though I’m look at this as a cavalier it also could impact Summoners, Druids, Rangers, Paladins or anyone with an animal companion/mount. So I will use mount generically for any animal companion or eidolon that can be used as a mount.
Because I will be using this character in pathfinder society I can’t really use a house rule.
Using Trample or overrun on a mount in general.
Whose CMB do you use? The Mount or the Rider? – In the archives I have seen both answered by different posts, usually favoring the mounts.
Lets say you want to have improved overrun, Greater over Run and Charge through… Does the mount or rider take those feats? – There doesn’t seem to be a consensus but more think it should be the mount.
When you manage to trample with the trample feat it allows you to make a hoof attack with the mount on the creature trampled. Is this feat basically useless if you are not riding a pony or horse? If I’m a small character riding a dog or boar as a mount I don’t have hoof attacks. Does this mean they can bite or gore instead or do I just need to have greater overrun so they get an attack.
Thanks
Trample feat is worded: "When you attempt to overrun an opponent while mounted..."
Either the rider can use his own CMB and feats like Improved Overrun (because he is clearly stated to be making the overrun attempt in this scenario), or Trample can only be used while trying to overrun an opponent who is also on your mount (and it lets the mount kick the opponent if successful).
Which one makes more sense to you?
The mount takes those feats. The rider takes Trample. Good rules discussions and dev support have repeatedly upheld the distinction between what a rider does and what a mount does.
The confusion with the use of "you" in the Trample feat description is that the rider chooses what the mount does. This does not mean that the rider does it all. Trample does not change the CRB rules on mounted combat.
The mount takes those feats. The rider takes Trample. Good rules discussions and dev support have repeatedly upheld the distinction between what a rider does and what a mount does.
The confusion with the use of "you" in the Trample feat description is that the rider chooses what the mount does. This does not mean that the rider does it all. Trample does not change the CRB rules on mounted combat.
So when "you" cast a spell while mounted, the mount casts a spell? That doesn't make sense. Why didn't they just choose to have Trample read, "when YOUR MOUNT attempts to overrun..."? It would have been crystal clear then.
Following your logic, Trample should read, "YOU may make one hoof attack against any target you knock down" instead of "Your mount may make one hoof attack..."
And why "any target YOU knock down" instead of "any target your MOUNT knocks down"?
If the mount needs to take the Improved Overrun feat for itself, then Trample needs to be errata'd.
Yes, it should be clearer, which is why there are so many threads on this.
FWIW, your spell analogy to my comment seems intentionally incongruous. Please don't be insulting.
Yes, it should be clearer, which is why there are so many threads on this.
FWIW, your spell analogy to my comment seems intentionally incongruous. Please don't be insulting.
Intentionally incongruous? It's called reductio ad absurdum, and it's a valid argument technique.
I have a theory.. but the mounted combat rules make my head hurt. Basically, I assume the base rules all expect the mounted character to do all the rolls. The reason is that, the core rules would theoretically be written with the assumption the majority of people using mounted combat dont have an AC.
Ie getting a normal horse to have the feats in many cases is impossible and only 3 classes had access to an AC then.
But The wording on many of the feats is inconsistant sadly
Not a RAW based reading, but your game is your business.
The mounted combat rules are themselves mostly straightforward. It becomes complicated when we read the vaguely worded feats to favor exception after exception rather than adhere to interpretations that preserve core. Overrun applies to the party making the move action. The mount makes the move action. Core rules, really direct. That should be our baseline for interpreting related feats.