I thought I had a pretty good idea of how to go about making magical items. You needed to have a CL of at least 10 to add Flaming to a weapon.
But then I saw this, which states:
The APG magic items chapter says (on page 282), "The creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level." This contradicts the Core Rulebook. Which is correct?
That line in the APG is an error. An item's caster level is not a prerequisite for item creation unless it is specifically mentioned in an item's Requirements line (for example, an amulet of natural armor).
(SKR 8/30/10)
Could my level 5 cleric make a flaming scimitar?
I thought I had a pretty good idea of how to go about making magical items. You needed to have a CL of at least 10 to add Flaming to a weapon.
But then I saw this, which states:
Could my level 5 cleric make a flaming scimitar?The APG magic items chapter says (on page 282), "The creator's caster level must be as high as the item's caster level." This contradicts the Core Rulebook. Which is correct?
That line in the APG is an error. An item's caster level is not a prerequisite for item creation unless it is specifically mentioned in an item's Requirements line (for example, an amulet of natural armor).
(SKR 8/30/10)
Welcome to the magic item creation rules.
This is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination
The short answer is yes.
The longer answer is that the rules for magic item creation are so fubar that i have to say that I'm almost certain that you can.
Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon
The devs have said that this otherwise undefined "special prerequisite" can't be averted by adding 5 to the DC the way most prerequisites can. Your 5th cleric thus cannot create a sword with an enhancement bonus of +2.
However, I don't see anything that would prevent the cleric from creating something with the *pricing equivilant* of a +2 weapon. You don't have a +2 enhancement bonus on a +1 flaming weapon. (or for that matter a +1 flaming frosting aciding weapon) You have a +1 enhancement bonus and a special ability.
Flame on.
The answer is yes your level 5 cleric can enchant a masterwork scimitar to +1 flaming, but he'll need to be able to have cast flame blade, flame strike or fireball to do so.
Not so fast. There's a special clause for creating magic weapons:
"Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator's caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met."
So the minimum level would be level 10, I think. Unless you can ignore that prerequisite too by adding a +5 to the DC. Clear as mud...
To me what's not clear is if the caster level listed with each special ability is intended as a requirement, or if it's just meant as an indicator of the item's generic caster level (used to determine the DC of identify checks for instance).
Personally, my first instinct would be to rule it as a requirement but one that can be bypassed for the +5 to DC. No idea whatsoever if that's correct or not though. :)
For Arms and Armour the special pereuqiste of Caster level must be 3 times the enhancement bonus of the item can not be bypassed by adding +5 to the DC
In my eyes its only the enhancement bonus which cannot be bypassed by adding +5 to the DC, due to if you max out on a weapon i.e. +5 bonus and a "+5" special ability the caster level to make the weapon would be Level 30
Now if you break the rules down firstly you need a weapon making, followed by that then worked until its Master worked then that enhanced (i.e. +1 bonus and the caster level /3 for the max bonus) then the special ability is added, which in my eyes cannot have the caster level as a requirement(see above)
The 10th level minimum for the Flaming aspect is a prerequisite that can be bypassed by adding +5 to the DC, simple as. The total DC then (as long as you meet all the other prerequisites) is 5 + caster level of item (10 from Flaming) + 5 (prerequisite not met) = DC 20.
|
In my eyes its only the enhancement bonus which cannot be bypassed by adding +5 to the DC, due to if you max out on a weapon i.e. +5 bonus and a "+5" special ability the caster level to make the weapon would be Level 30
actually it's be 15, the 'modified bonus' for pricing is +10, but the enhancement bonus is 5, and the special ability is +5 (with the CL being varied). See the magic weapons, paragraph 3.
I'm beginning to suspect that the reason why magic item creation is disallowed in PFS isn't wealth by level but the simple fact that no one knows how exactly they work.
Well, not only that but
How does crafting interact with WBL?
What happens if you have one wizard pump every copper he has into an item they can only make on a natural 20 and succeeds, whereas at another table you have another wizard try the same thing and fail? You now have one with NO equipment and one sporting a massively overpowered item.
I'm sure paizo thinks the item crafting rules are understandable (they wouldn't have released them otherwise)
|
|
In my game, I figure the feat tax as a reasonable cost to compensate for a bit more magic items.
Players should understand the risk of failing; but as long as we're not breaking the 'no more than half to one item' rule, we're good. Personally I run with the 'more balanced' rules if I allow crafting though. You can't really break a game with level appropriate gear.
By my reading of the RAW, the cleric in question MAY attempt to make the item. For one thing, the magic item creation rules in the back of the book specifically state that all "prerequisites" can be effectively ignored simply by adding +5 to the DC to make the item per prerequisite ignored in this way. Thus, if the cleric knows Fireball from his domains, his DC to make the sword would be 5 + 10 (caster level of the item) + 5 (penalty for not meeting the caster level prerequisite) for a DC of 20. The only errata I have (and maybe mine aren't up to date) do not, as far as I can tell, prevent this.
So your level 5 cleric, assuming he has an Int of 10 or 11, 5 ranks in spellcraft (the max for his level, and it's a class skill, so you get +3 for that) and didn't take Magical Aptitude or Skill Focus (Spellcraft) as feats, would have a +8 to hit a DC 20 spellcraft check. If he DOES have skill focus (spellcraft) or magical aptitude, he get's a bonus to the roll (+3 for skill focus, +2 of magical aptitude). In either of those cases, his effective chances of making the sword are 100%, because there's nothing stopping him from taking 10 on the skill check, unless he's trying to make it in the middle of a fight for some reason. If he doesn't know one of the needed spells, another caster (the wizard perhaps) can contribute that to the cause and the two of them take no penalty. Your DM might even let the helper wizard roll an "aid another" check on the creation roll, if he's feeling generous. That could get you an additional +2.
If the cleric has no access to one of the required spells, the DC will be 25 to make the sword.
That's my read of the RAW. Now, as a DM myself I hack the rules for item creation quite a bit. In the case of this particular item, the DC would come out the same under my house rules, but the creator couldn't take 10 on the roll, ever, and I do not allow aid other rolls for this. I also tack on the +5 penalty if the creator doesn't know the required spells himself. That is, if he has to rely on help from another caster, the process get's harder and get's the +5 penalty.
For Arms and Armour the special pereuqiste of Caster level must be 3 times the enhancement bonus of the item can not be bypassed by adding +5 to the DCThe enhancement bonus is +1, so that is met. The issue is the flaming component.
I think a weapon has to be +1 before it is made flaming, which is a +1 upgrade. Therefore, a flaming scimitar will be, effectively, a +2 weapon in terms of crafting.
I think a weapon has to be +1 before it is made flaming, which is a +1 upgrade. Therefore, a flaming scimitar will be, effectively, a +2 weapon in terms of crafting.
But the rules specifically tells you to treat the enchantment bonus and the special ability separately, making it a +1 sword in terms of crafting.
But the rules specifically tells you to treat the enchantment bonus and the special ability separately, making it a +1 sword in terms of crafting.
I think a weapon has to be +1 before it is made flaming, which is a +1 upgrade. Therefore, a flaming scimitar will be, effectively, a +2 weapon in terms of crafting.
Hmm, right, it does say you have to meet the higher of the two prerequisites.
I've been thinking for about 2 minutes.
They should do a book called Ultimate Crafters.
Or create errata on the subject. Especially about how it affects WBL. I mean, 1-3 feats for the equivalent of twice the magic items? I'm not sure that balances out.
|
|
Therefore, a flaming scimitar will be, effectively, a +2 weapon in terms of crafting.
Just to make a point of discussion. The only reasons you ever combine bonuses, to form the 'modified bonus' ,is to determine market cost and check to make sure you're not going over the +10 per item limit.
And to highlight another fun note. A +1 flaming shock frost keen speed wounding long sword has the same CL requirements as a +1 flaming long sword.
This seems ridiculous until you weigh in the fact that players shouldn't have that kind of money laying around.
Furthermore, pathfinder's rules for modifying magic items creates an interesting scenario for magic items your players find. That +1 flaming long sword is a CL 10 to craft, as is the +2 flaming long sword. However if you give them a +1 flaming long sword as loot, the CL to make the +2 long sword is cl 6. Meaning that the long sword can be upgraded to a +2 flaming long sword by a 6th level caster. This has been great for allowing our party fighter to keep up while still using the same +x keen long sword for a longer period.
We're starting mother of flies, and she (the fighter) is still using the +1 keen longsword found towards the end of the sixfold trial. It's +3 now.
As for WBL issues? I think it depends on context. Two +1 keen great swords are not better than one (for one character). So items that feed on action economy (weapons, wands, staffs, scrolls, etc) balance themselves. Items that are essentially buffs are a bit more murkey. Bracers of armor, or just mage armor? Cats grace or boots of dexterity (cat's grace is going to be better for a while). As long as the players are within their CL requirements and within WBL requirements it should all even out.
Then again, I don't allow players to +5 the DC to ignore CL requirements, so maybe that's blurred my viewpoint.