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So, I love PRPG. Thank you, Paizo, for that. And I love fantasy gaming. But, for me, it seems that it's just getting old. Or maybe I'm getting older and my tastes are changing. Or maybe I'm just tired of the same "humans, elves, and dwarves" frolicking together slaying the evil lich, the sinister dragon overlord, or some such thing.
I'd like to ask you, the Pathfinder/Paizo community: What have you done, and what can I do, to make the game human-centric? What I mean is, how can I make the game where the only playable race is humans, and everything else is a lot closer to its fictional roots? Or further away from Tolkien-esque roots from which the original game "borrowed" ideas from?
Something from another thread caught my eye, about where some of the ideas of the game came from (elves and dwarves as playable races, to name one), and it got me thinking. "What would the game look like if that never happened? What would the game look like if you played a human (or group of humans) in a fantastic land of myth and legend? And explored the realms of other beings for the first time, after only being taught what those realms and beings were like?" Or something like that..
Not trying to rant, but it seems I started to anyway.
So.. What do you do with your games to try to convey my sentiments (if you do so)? What would you do (if you dont)? And what is your advice to someone who wants to?
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I already own the Iron Kingdoms books. From the sounds of it, you may be referring to Iron Heroes. I remember a couple years back, a friend of my brother bought it. I recall being interested in it, but never thought to seek it out. Thank you for the advice. Since I have almost all the PRPG rulebooks, is there anything you could recommend I do with that?
Speaking with a friend, he brings up that it's mostly a "setting issue". I tend to agree. Maybe, there really isn't as much to it as I thought initially.
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If you are running the games it is easy to make them human centric. i.e. Make humans the only playable race. As far as introducing the fantasy element you described that can be done with some work.
Rewrite the fantasy races. Especially their underlying concept For example: Elves are fueled by dreams and their power varies with the dreams of those creatures in the geographic area. Some grow to be terrifying and sinister seeming while others are ethereal and hard to see if you look directly at them. The do not speak human languages and only the mages of an ancient empire were ever reputed to have spoken with elves.
Play the first 3 levels with human only problems. Do not mention fantasy races at all. Not even goblins orcs and such. When appropriate introduce one fantasy race and a conflict with them.
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I already own the Iron Kingdoms books. From the sounds of it, you may be referring to Iron Heroes. I remember a couple years back, a friend of my brother bought it. I recall being interested in it, but never thought to seek it out. Thank you for the advice. Since I have almost all the PRPG rulebooks, is there anything you could recommend I do with that?
Speaking with a friend, he brings up that it's mostly a "setting issue". I tend to agree. Maybe, there really isn't as much to it as I thought initially.
My bad. I did mean Iron Heroes. Your friend is right. It is a setting issue. Never be afraid to homebrew.
It kind of sounds like the old D&D cartoon, Lol. Escape the "real" world, discover amazing powers, and wonderous creatures.... and learn a valuable life lesson at the same time. Seriously though I would completely homebrew something like this. Maybe even tweak some of the racial personalities.
E.G. Maybe dwarves are overly warlike and subjugate the other races or orcs are all peaceful nature loving creatures, just taking a slightly different take on the way the mythical races are portrayed could change how everything feels in the game world.
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How much work are you willing to do? Because its obviously easier to use Pathfinder with Golarion than use it with one of the other published settings for Pathfinder. Cause there aren't any.
Which means your choices that if you've got your heart set on human only setting with Pathfinder rules, your choices are a) give up and just go with Golarion, b) start entirely from scratch and create all of your own material, or c) rejigger Golarion (or any other setting) into a human centric world by extensively rewriting the material. Sometimes option C can end up being the same amount of work as option B.
The easiest way to cheat and achieve a humancentric campaign with a minimum of work is to go historical. Base it off real medieval Europe, except in this case reality actually does work exactly the way medieval people thought it did. It helps to turn the magic down to 3. Also, it works best if you are comfortable with using Christianity or an expy of Christianity as the sole Good religion -- I use a religion called Simonism for these kinds of games, it's Holy Roman Catholicism with the names changed and some of the basic details rearranged, plus God is replaced with "The Source." No one has ever taken offense. Medieval Europe without the monotheism is a very different place.
No wizard colleges. A handful of extremely powerful wizards exist in the whole world, with maybe a few dozen apprentices between them. Most wizards are charlatans and frauds. So are most witches, but be careful because the real ones are far more common than wizards.
For the monsters, eliminate all common and uncommon humanoids except humans. Make all giants unique except hill giants, who should be very rare. Make all magical beasts, aberrations, monstrous humanoids, oozes, and evil outsiders unique and immortal. Undead should be very rare, an undead (other than skeletons and zombies) whose origin requires necromancy should be unique creations of a single necromancer. Medium or greater sized fey should be very rare or unique (except dryads and nymphs), while small fey should all have invisibility at will and be common. Make extensive use of human opponents. Make Favored Enemy (Human) the most awesome gift to rangers ever.
For everything else you just need a history book and a decent random name generator so you can change the names of all the participants.
Or, and this is a radical suggestion, you could go the other way entirely and see if you get your enjoyment back by trying a world/setting like Talislanta. Talislanta is famous for having "No Elves," but less people know that its got about 100 races, none of which are human. It would take a lot of work to convert the material to Pathfinder, but its definitely a change of pace from the Tolkien inspired world. All the campaign setting material is available free online here, which is why I mention it.
It seems easy enough to play almost any world with just humans. Humans may interact with dwarves and elves, etc., but that doesn't mean your campaign has to.
Humans are the most numerous race in most game worlds, and have enough going on between themselves that other races don't need to show up for much of anything.
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Change most of the humanoid races to be humans.
Orcs can be just particulalry barbaric tribesmen
Elves are more like the Celts.
Dwarves become Norsemen (or whatever)
The point is you give the same stat bonuses that the Fantasy races get, but to regional human tropes instead.
Basically you'll need to homebrew a setting to use.
You can set your game in a human world, possibly playing in the mythos of that wolrd. A bit like the Greek legends (Clash of the Titans etc).
Alternatively, you can make a majority of human based kingdoms, with some alternate races in scatterings about the fringes (Raymond E Feist's Magician series is like this).
The next choice to make is how magical the world is. Take away too much of this magical aspect, and you'll limit the number of critters you can bring in to mix up encounter interest though.
hope that's helpful.
Cheers
The OP raises an interesting question. I'll have to think about it as I take my bath tonight -- if I can rephrase it, it might be "what would the fantasy gaming genre look like if it were not based on humans, elves, dwarves, and short people fighting various monsters?
For my 17th Century idea, I am doing a humans only campaign. If you want to play a dwarf, you're a short human, and you don't get any stat adjustments for being a dwarf. Monsters have all been pushed to the fringes of the world, and have a "plausible deniability" to them. The idea is currently being billed as a blend of Three Musketeers and X-Files. I'm adding a few ideas from Mage: the Ascension as well.
I've thought about it, and I have lots of ideas. As mentioned, my 17th Century campaign is human only, with monsters having "plausible deniability", and three types of alchemists competing to see who will control the future.
I'm using inspiration from a lot of sources: [i]The Three Musketeers; Zorro; Van Helsing; Marvel 1602; Mage: the Ascension; X-Files[\i] for example.
Besides eliminating the other demi-humans, what else would you like to do?
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Thank you, everyone, for your ideas and support thus far. Keep up the good work..
I was thinking more along the lines of a setting where all these mythical creatures and beings exist, it's just that humans are so much more plentiful, and don't really venture outside their own civilizations. They learn about the Elves, and how they are the keepers of arcane lore, or Dwarves and how they are pale skinned, dark haired, (sort of) spirits (not in the concept of "incorporeal undead") of death, or Trolls and how they are man-eating giants that turn to stone if they are exposed to sunlight..
Anyway, Im tired right now.. Just typing whatever comes to mind really =)
Thank you, everyone, for your ideas and support thus far. Keep up the good work..
I was thinking more along the lines of a setting where all these mythical creatures and beings exist, it's just that humans are so much more plentiful, and don't really venture outside their own civilizations. They learn about the Elves, and how they are the keepers of arcane lore, or Dwarves and how they are pale skinned, dark haired, (sort of) spirits (not in the concept of "incorporeal undead") of death, or Trolls and how they are man-eating giants that turn to stone if they are exposed to sunlight..
Anyway, Im tired right now.. Just typing whatever comes to mind really =)
My 17th century idea was kind of going along those lines. Potentially, adventurers could journey into the far lands, and their efforts partially determine whether nonhuman creatures are driven farther away, or brought back into civilization. I also thought about having expeditions to the center of the earth and things like that -- perhaps there are dwarves and gnomes and kobolds under the mountains, for example.
The following link might be useful for you:
One idea for a campaign that I had that you might use:
The PCs come from a small town in 20th or 21st Century Earth. One morning, they wake up and find that their whole town has been transported to another world. (My idea was that it was transported to a ringworld, but whatever idea works for you.) As the people in the town explore the area, they find that there are orcs and elves and dragons among their new neighbors.
I had a number of ideas about this. One idea is that the electrical equipment in the town still works, because the power lines are connected to something that is generating electric power for them. Exploration also reveals that there is a tar pit nearby where the town can get petroleum. (The ringworld I am envisioning is one that was made as a menagerie, and salted with resources by the makers for use by the inhabitants.)
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Green Ronin has put out a series of setting books for alternate settings, some based on historic cultures (like Testament ), some are not. All can make for a very different playing experience (and the alternate nonhuman races presented in some books can easily be ignored).
If you can track it down, Black Company might provide a humancentric setting you enjoy.
So, I love PRPG. Thank you, Paizo, for that. And I love fantasy gaming. But, for me, it seems that it's just getting old. Or maybe I'm getting older and my tastes are changing. Or maybe I'm just tired of the same "humans, elves, and dwarves" frolicking together slaying the evil lich, the sinister dragon overlord, or some such thing.
I'd like to ask you, the Pathfinder/Paizo community: What have you done, and what can I do, to make the game human-centric? What I mean is, how can I make the game where the only playable race is humans, and everything else is a lot closer to its fictional roots? Or further away from Tolkien-esque roots from which the original game "borrowed" ideas from?
Something from another thread caught my eye, about where some of the ideas of the game came from (elves and dwarves as playable races, to name one), and it got me thinking. "What would the game look like if that never happened? What would the game look like if you played a human (or group of humans) in a fantastic land of myth and legend? And explored the realms of other beings for the first time, after only being taught what those realms and beings were like?" Or something like that..
Not trying to rant, but it seems I started to anyway.
So.. What do you do with your games to try to convey my sentiments (if you do so)? What would you do (if you dont)? And what is your advice to someone who wants to?
Many people consider humans the best race, and I have to out of my way to try not to play them, mostly due to the extra feat.
To answer your question though you could just ask the group to do a campaign where there are only humans. There is the "accidentally transported to mythical land" idea if you want to visit other realms.I think that another D20 game, maybe Conan had different humans with different stat bonuses. That could work also.
If you go with my idea of transporting a whole town to a new world, you might want to go with my idea of sending a town from the 1950s. That way, there is less technology, and the inhabitants of the town won't be conditioned to think of video games and plane travelling movies. Just an idea about an idea.
Or maybe I'm just tired of the same "humans, elves, and dwarves" frolicking together slaying the evil lich, the sinister dragon overlord, or some such thing.
Are you the GM? If so, why do you always use dragon overlord, evil liches, and the like? What about a crazy fairy queen who wants to collect countries. In a drawer. Or a power-hungry, possessed queen who will sacrifice her home city for infernal power? Or a thieves guild that holds a crumbling city in its iron grip?
I'd like to ask you, the Pathfinder/Paizo community: What have you done, and what can I do, to make the game human-centric?
Actually, I'd prefer it if weren't so humanocentric. Our Kingmaker party is: Human cavalier with human paladin cohort, human witch, human summoner - and my GMPC, an elf magus. The king (a former character the player got bored with) is a human rage prophet. The game before that human rogue, human alchemist human wizard - and my GMPC, a suli oracle of battle (and suli are humans descended from jann). Before that, I think it was an all-human party.
What I mean is, how can I make the game where the only playable race is humans, and everything else is a lot closer to its fictional roots? Or further away from Tolkien-esque roots from which the original game "borrowed" ideas from?
I never tried it, but what about doing exactly that? Only have humans as a playable race. They're always a good choice, anyway (reflected in the many, many all-human parties that seem to be out there). Everything else is "monsters".
Turn elves into the fairy nobility. Turn dwarves into half-elementals.
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Are you the GM? If so, why do you always use dragon overlord, evil liches, and the like? What about a crazy fairy queen who wants to collect countries. In a drawer. Or a power-hungry, possessed queen who will sacrifice her home city for infernal power? Or a thieves guild that holds a crumbling city in its iron grip?
In this case, ja, I am. However, I was speaking as a player. Not just PRPG, but other fantasy RPGs, tabletop and video game alike. I'd like to play in this "world" I'm thinking of, but I'd enjoy GMing it too.
What I mean is, how can I make the game where the only playable race is humans, and everything else is a lot closer to its fictional roots? Or further away from Tolkien-esque roots from which the original game "borrowed" ideas from?
I never tried it, but what about doing exactly that? Only have humans as a playable race. They're always a good choice, anyway (reflected in the many, many all-human parties that seem to be out there). Everything else is "monsters".
Turn elves into the fairy nobility. Turn dwarves into half-elementals.
Thank you for the good ideas =)
I've mentioned this on the boards before, but my players have to almost physically restrain me from making the only PC race in my settings Humans. I have no qualms with other races; it's just that I would rather just have a completely anthropocentric setting. I designed one a few years ago, and we played a few sessions into it before some health issues caused me to shut down the gaming machine for awhile. While a couple guys griped about not being able to play a Dwarf or Elf, they seemed to have a pretty good time over all.
If they still clamor for some "variety" among their racial choices, stat up Human species from the fossil record. There are already stats for Neanderthals, and with a little work and imagination, throwing in others is pretty easy. They don't have to be "dumb brutes", either, just because they weren't as evolved as later forms. I even statted up Homo floresiensis (the real-life "hobbits") as a small, psionically gifted Human race.
Plus, you ARE the GM. Just tell your group that you want to give a totally Human based setting a try and have fun with it. Maybe a plague (magical or whatnot) wiped out all the other races, or the gods took them away, or something, something, something.
Anyway, good luck and have fun!
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I'm with you DMCal. Sometimes the only thing stopping me from making my campaigns human only is the threat of player revolution.
I don't mind A demihuman in the party. Even two if it's a large party, but when the ratio of humans to demihumans starts to approach 1:1, or goes beyond that and you end up with a party with one human and four or five demihumans, I just get annoyed.
I try to explain to players that even places like Golarion and the Forgotten Realms are still humanocentric, and most villages/small towns are going to be human. Which means your "adventuring party" of a "good" drow, a dragonborn, a warforged, a tiefling and two cat people is going to seem like a roving band of monsters to most peasants, and is not going to be welcome.
Its one thing when a bunch of adventurers show up in town with their one elf friend. That's a curiosity. Its quite another when an alien invasion force shows up claiming they're "just like you, only different."
THe PF campaign has a slew of human... variants? from Azlant to Varundi.
Varundi? Are they from a place where there are Varisians (or Vudrani), Garunid and no social stigma against sleeping around? ;-P
I don't mind A demihuman in the party.
I don't like the term "demihuman". It reminds me of "negro". Maybe it was innocent back when it was first invented, but it's really just racist.
They're not demihuman. They're not human at all. If they had scientific names similar to homo sapiens, there would be no "homo" in there. No connection to humans.
And neither are they "only half as good as humans".
Things like this really want to make me play in Dragaera, especially in the Empire. Show those Easterners their place. worse then Tackla and Jhereg!
Did you know they call themselves "human"?
Even two if it's a large party, but when the ratio of humans to demihumans starts to approach 1:1, or goes beyond that and you end up with a party with one human and four or five demihumans, I just get annoyed.
Yeah, why don't people realise that such parties are badwrongfun?
I try to explain to players that even places like Golarion and the Forgotten Realms are still humanocentric, and most villages/small towns are going to be human. Which means your "adventuring party" of a "good" drow, a dragonborn, a warforged, a tiefling and two cat people is going to seem like a roving band of monsters to most peasants, and is not going to be welcome.
Yeah. They should all play humans. In a 6 person party, there should be like 3 commoners, with a warrior, an adept and an expert thrown in.
Because those fighters and wizards are quite rare and extraordinary.
Its one thing when a bunch of adventurers show up in town with their one elf friend. That's a curiosity.
Yeah, the real people and their pet.
Its quite another when an alien invasion force shows up claiming they're "just like you, only different."
What are they thinking, claiming they're our equals?
In case someone missed the tone, it was quite sarcastical, since I can't stand racism, even fantasy racism.
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something something something racism
For me, it's not a matter of racism really. I'm just bored with all the same stuff. Stories/Games that start with "A human, an elf, and a dwarf walk into a bar.." and end with "The intrepid adventurers slayed the evil dragon, and they lived happily ever after". :P
I just want it to be a little closer to how life is now, with some magical assumptions being true (magic is real, so are elves, dwarves, trolls, etc). Human civilizations know this stuff exists, teach their children about it, they just dont DARE go outside these civilizations to go actually see it. Unless they're bold, strong, and fearless (or just plain "off their rocker"), do they ever venture out into the wild.
I liked your idea about the elves and dwarves. Dwarves, being the half earth elementals that serve as guardians of the dead. Elves, being the fey creatures of myth, legend, and magic. Trolls would be the terrible, man-eating giants that turn to stone when exposed to sunlight. And other things of a similar nature.
But, the players are human. They're people, in a world where everything seems to be strange, beautiful, tragic, mystical, mysterious, and even monstrous.
I have ideas about which classes could be limited, or even non-existant. Even have campaign info on why, and plot points for other classes specifically, and their interactions with the other beings, and how these other beings perceive them.
Sorry for the rant =)
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I don't like the term "demihuman". It reminds me of "negro". Maybe it was innocent back when it was first invented, but it's really just racist.
You should totally write a letter to the National Association for the Advancement of Demihumans. Oh wait, you can't, because demihumans aren't real.
In case someone missed the tone, it was quite sarcastical, since I can't stand racism, even fantasy racism.
::facepalm::
Sometimes I'm just plain embarrassed to be a gamer.
Also, "sarcastical" isn't a word.
The easiest way to have a humans only campaign is probably to make it a historical campaign.
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I don't like the term "demihuman". It reminds me of "negro". Maybe it was innocent back when it was first invented, but it's really just racist.You should totally write a letter to the National Association for the Advancement of Demihumans. Oh wait, you can't, because demihumans aren't real.
How about an imaginary letter then?
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Bring back level limits on demihumans. That will sort those pointy eared, hairy footed, beard growing buggers out.
Also restrict classes - Paladin ARE human and human only. The idea of a Gnome Paladin still makes me want to be physically ill.
2 cents.
I actually had thought about this. One idea involved making wizards an elf only class. I have many thoughts about it, but I'm unsure about many of them.
Utgardloki: Historical settings just aren't my cup of tea. It's just not what I'm trying to evoke, but I appreciate the idea anyway.
What KaeYoss said about non-human adventurers sounds politically correct, but a fantasy setting is not necessarily politically correct. The impression I got, based on gaming in the 1980s, was that a "demihuman" was someone who was not a human and would be allowed to walk into a town without being attacked on sight.
But of course elves have lots of money, so you can charge them extra for everything. And charge the dwarves triple.
And everybody knows that halflings are burglars who are going to take everything that is not nailed down, so keep them out of the store. And you heard me right, I called them halflings. If they don't like it, what are they going to do? Cry into my kneecaps?
And the half-orc should be happy the town guard even let her into town.
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I actually had thought about this. One idea involved making wizards an elf only class. I have many thoughts about it, but I'm unsure about many of them.
For sure a great idea, toyed with this myself. Would give a great feel to the world. 3e & 4e made worlds too pedestrian for me, one big happy place where no one was discrimination against based on race and everyone lived side by side to beat up those Orcs (oops, hmmm, next edition should edit that out before the Fantasy UN have to get involved). Basically the fantasy world became too fantasy for me - in fact it became the cantina scene from Star Wars in every city by the book. I think the table in the 1e AD&D PHB was worth its weight in gold, having an idea for how the races interact added something - what's that term Gygaxian Naturalism?
Still it's your game and Elf only Wizards sounds sort of cool.
Cheers,
S.
Another thing you could do, and I've done, is add new races to the mix.
In my homebrew of Audor, I've added a race of sapient bipedal beagles and made it available for PCs. One of the PCs was a beagle ranger. One of the NPCs they encountered was a beagle witch. (Although this was 3.5, and I wasn't using a Witch class for her; that was just what she was called.)
Also, based on events, I've decided that goblins, kobolds, and hobgoblins could also be "demihuman" races. While oftentimes in conflict, the hobgoblins and humans made an alliance against a common threat. Plus, there are tribes of "renegade" hobgoblins who are governed by hobgoblin priestesses who happen to worship the same goddess that humans do.
Relations with kobolds and goblins are also not automatically hostile.
Another campaign I've thought about running but never did, called Islar, has 13 PC races with alliances that you might not predict based on conventional D&D worlds. Elves and halflings were the core of an alliance that included hobgoblins. Humans were sort of aligned with lizardmen and bugbears, primarily because they were basically the races that were not aligned with others.
... a bunch of stuff comparing humano-centric preferences to racism...
Couple of points:
1. Technically what you are ranting about here is "species-ism" not "racism". The word "race" in the D&D and PF rules is a classic case of misusing a word. Elves are not a "race" of humanoid, they are a "species" of humanoid.
2. The original game was deliberately humano-centric BECAUSE the original writers wanted to promote humans as being one "race". So what you are ranting about now was originally considered a means of COMBATING actual, real-world racism.
3. I certainly appreciate that your anti-racism radar is on overdrive and that it is important to establish your "I'm no racist" credentials, but your rant is perilously close to accusing those who prefer humano-centrist gaming to being ACTUAL REAL WORLD RACISTS. And frankly in today's PC overheated world, there is little that you can accuse someone of which has the power to destroy a life as much as accusing someone of being a racist. So I would be very, very careful how I approached this subject because it's one thing to say "I'm no racist" but it's quite another to imply that "you must be one."
I personally have no problem with a humano-centric approach to the game. I prefer to run the game as one where all "races" (species) of sentient species are treated as equally as possible because I like the idea that such inclusiveness would be the ideal in such a world.
But that doesn't mean if someone in my group wanted humans to be treated as the "most important" of the sentient species that I would secretly suspect (or overtly accuse) them of being racists.
After all, there actually are no elves.
This reminds me very much of the vicious and unfounded attacks on Tolkien as a "racist" because his monsters (orcs and goblins) were darker skinned than his heroes (which were mostly modeled on European races).
As Freud might have said if he were a gamer: "Sometimes an orc is just an orc."
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Man, sometimes i LOVE not living in the USA. Here, you can be as racist as you want and mostly nobody will bat an eyelid. Unless you are a public figure and you say it on TV of course.
There is of course no need to be racist, but if it gives people an outlet, and doesn't hurt anybody, well, let them b***h about it. Who cares really?
something something something racismFor me, it's not a matter of racism really. I'm just bored with all the same stuff.
Being bored with the same stuff, why do you want an all-human world? After all, the real world is like that, and most of us spend an awful lot of time there.
In fact, any "all (insert some species)" world sounds a lot of "all the same stuff". :P
Stories/Games that start with "A human, an elf, and a dwarf walk into a bar.." and end with "The intrepid adventurers slayed the evil dragon, and they lived happily ever after". :P
I think the ", an elf, and a dwarf" part really isn't the problem here. It's the evil dragon part.
The elf and dwarf part are the stuff the players will provide. Players are usually happier with more choices. If their elves and dwarves seem boring, their humans will probably be even more boring. If they manage to create interesting characters, they will be just as good at that with more than humans to choose from - maybe even more so.
The dragon part, however, is the GM's problem. He's the one who has to provide something more interesting than the same old dragon who eats young, unmarried women. I fear limiting the players in their choices won't really help there.
What KaeYoss said about non-human adventurers sounds politically correct, but a fantasy setting is not necessarily politically correct.
I wasn't talking about the settings. I was talking about people here.
But of course elves have lots of money, so you can charge them extra for everything. And charge the dwarves triple.And everybody knows that halflings are burglars who are going to take everything that is not nailed down, so keep them out of the store. And you heard me right, I called them halflings. If they don't like it, what are they going to do? Cry into my kneecaps?
And the half-orc should be happy the town guard even let her into town.
If the whole world is like this, it's just boring.
3e & 4e made worlds too pedestrian for me, one big happy place where no one was discrimination against based on race and everyone lived side by side
Racism is definitely real in Golarion. It's just not universal. And why should it be? Pathfinder has an alignment system. One choice of alignment is "good" (LG, NG, CG). A certain percentage of people is supposed to have one of those alignments. And racism isn't something a good character should have.
And the rules don't mirror it. Because that would be crap. Might as well play FATAL.
Pathfinder does a much better deal than the nonsense of earlier editions, where all elves were arrogant racists, and all dwarves were rude racists, and all halflings were resentful thieves, and all "rogues" were called thieves and everyone assumed they were all fond of stealing.
PF is much better at this. Except the dwarves, they're still their old, crappy self. Can't be made any good apparently.
1. Technically what you are ranting about here is "species-ism" not "racism". The word "race" in the D&D and PF rules is a classic case of misusing a word. Elves are not a "race" of humanoid, they are a "species" of humanoid.
I'm talking about Pathfinder, pathfinder calls them race, so I call it race. I'll leave words like speciesism for Discworld and the like
2. The original game was deliberately humano-centric BECAUSE the original writers wanted to promote humans as being one "race". So what you are ranting about now was originally considered a means of COMBATING actual, real-world racism.
Intentions, especially old intentions, count for nothing really.
Plus, whoever thought that combating racism by shifting its focus wasn't right in the head.
3. I certainly appreciate that your anti-racism radar is on overdrive and that it is important to establish your "I'm no racist" credentials, but your rant is perilously close to accusing those who prefer humano-centrist gaming to being ACTUAL REAL WORLD RACISTS. And frankly in today's PC overheated world, there is little that you can accuse someone of which has the power to destroy a life as much as accusing someone of being a racist.
You tell me that I'm in danger of destroying lives here? For overreacting? Sorry, but that's funny :P
So I would be very, very careful how I approached this subject because it's one thing to say "I'm no racist" but it's quite another to imply that "you must be one."
So you imply that I'm implying? You should not shoot stuff like that from the hip.
Man, sometimes i LOVE not living in the USA. Here, you can be as racist as you want and mostly nobody will bat an eyelid.
Try moving here. Say one thing that is not highest praise for foreigners, and people blame you for stuff that happened decades before you were born.
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I know. My friend complained to me that an African-American woman sued him because he gave some candy to her trick-or-treating son, and ONE of the candies is called Negro and comes from my country, and it is an awesome mint candy that is good for the throat. And it exists for some 100 years now. And she accused him of racism because he didn't check if all the candy he poured into the sack was PC?
Please. People are too sensitive. It's ridiculous really.
Thankfully, the charges were dropped.
Here is the picture of the candy
And it's not a lone case either...
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@KayYoss What would you suggest I do?
I was just giving the "evil dragon" as an example. My issue really is just the "elves and dwarves" part. A setting like Iron Heroes sounds almost perfect, but I still want elves and dwarves (and other mythical creatures) to exist, I just want them to be more monstrous, exotic, or mystical. I kinda want it to be a game of exploration, discovering or experiencing these fantastic people and creatures for the first time.
I miss the feeling of excitement and pure wonder. The kind of wonder I felt when I was young, being first introduced to fantasy literature.
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I hate to tell that to you, but you will probably not get back that feeling. Change the known races as you like, you will still remember the years played in the standart setting and so will your players,
The Elves and Dwarves might be different, they might even feel different, but it won't bring that "sense of wonder" back.
Basically I see two options for you:+
1) Take a break from standart fantasy. Play something different. Cthulhu, Firefly, Iron Kingdoms, Vampire, you name it. This will not bring back the feel of the first days of gaming for you, but it might change your perspective at the game (any rpg) and bring with it a draft of fresh air.
2) Take those standart heroes, elves, dwarves and halflings included and let them discover the unknown together. Take then to Nyambe , take them to Hamunaptra or somewhere entirely different. Let them discover new places, new races and cultures they and their heroes haven't seen yet. Perhaps that won't be that old feel, but a new one that might fill that empty space...
I hate to tell that to you, but you will probably not get back that feeling.
Agreed. It's nostalgia. One tends to remember the great stuff, and not so much the not-so-good stuff. Or, you actually remember that it was good stuff.
Sometimes, you revisit the "good" old stuff and realise it's not that great any more.
Feytharn is right: If you want that new car smell, you need to get a new car.
Horror can work. Or some dystopian Sci-Fi.