Hey guys,
I've got a Halfling Fighter who's going down the path of Two-Weapon Warrior, and I wondered if you could give me a little advice please?
My stats are:
Level 6
Neutral Good
Hp: 43 (I rolled a 1 at level 5 and a 3 at level 6 for hp ¬_¬)
AC: 21 (23 when making a full attack)
+1 Studded Leather
Str: 13
Con: 14
Dex: 20
Wis: 10
Int: 7
Cha: 9
Fort: 8
Ref: 8
Will: 3
I have 22 points because of my Halflings racial +2 Dex bonus.
Skills:
Acrobatics: 11 (plus a +5 ring of jumping)
Climb: 8
Profession Gladiator: 6
Stealth: 12
I currently wield a +1 Bastard Sword in my primary and a Masterwork Shortsword in my off hand.
This is how I intend on upgrading:
Level 1: Two Weapon Fighting
- Weapon Finesse
Level 2: Exotic Weapon Proficiency Bastard Sword
Level 3: Two Weapon Defense
Level 4: Double Slice
Level 5: Weapon Focus Bastard Sword
Level 6: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 7: Power Attack
Level 8: Improved Critical Bastard Sword
Level 9: Weapon Specialization
Level 10: Critical Focus
Level 11: Bleeding Critical
Level 12: Two weapon rend
Level 13: Greater Weapon Specialization
Level 14: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 15: Greater Weapon Focus
Level 16:
Level 17:
Level 18:
Level 19:
Level 20:
I also want to include Combat Reflexes in there somewhere, but seeing as I'm playing the Legacy of Fire campaign and was told it ends at around level 15 to 16 usually, I haven't put anything else in, and don't really know where would be best to put Combat Reflexes.
I'm fairly new to the game and haven't ever made an AoO, so didn't know if it forced the enemies open for attack in the round I make them, and how many times I can do it to the same enemy (but instinct is telling me once).
I'll be saving up for a Sunblade and at level 11, switch my Bastard Sword into my off hand and using the Sunblade in my Primary, taking full advantage of my feats.
This is because Two-Weapon Warrior at level 11 lets you wield a Bastard Sword in your off hand as if it was a light weapon, so I can finesse it (some people said no to this and others said yes, and my DM also said yes), and the Sunblade acts as both a Bastard Sword and a light weapon, so I can take advantage of that with my feats also.
I then intend to acquire a ring of protection and an amulet of natural armour (both +5), and if I reach level 20, will gain a +5 dodge bonus (at the minute I have a +1 and Two-Weapon Defense).
I considered saving for +8 bracers but feel a +5 Studded Leather of Determination would hopefully be fine. Plus, I'm also going for the History of Scars Achievement that will take my Charisma down by two, but put my Natural Armour Class up by 2.
I also plan to buy the +6 belt of physical might and focus in Str and Con. Then for the rest of my inherent bonuses (1 every 4 levels), I'll put all but one in str, and have one left over that'll be useless.
For my Bastard Sword, I then intend on making it a Shocking Burst, Thundering, Wounding weapon. I plan to call it thunderstorm, and it goes along with my focus in bleed damage (hopefully bleed is a good choice as I'm a little wary of the low DC 15 save to prevent it).
These are the bonuses I get from Two-Weapon Warrior, and I still get my level 2 fear bonus and level 20 critical threat range bonus from being a fighter:
Defensive Flurry (Ex): At 3rd level, when a two-weapon warrior makes a full attack with both weapons, he gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks until the beginning of his next turn. This bonus increases by +1 every four levels after 3rd. This ability replaces armor training 1 and 2.
Twin Blades (Ex): At 5th level, a two-weapon warrior gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when making a full attack with two weapons or a double weapon. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels after 5th. This ability replaces weapon training 1.
Doublestrike (Ex): At 9th level, a two-weapon warrior may, as a standard action, make one attack with both his primary and secondary weapons. The penalties for attacking with two weapons apply normally. This ability replaces weapon training 2.
Improved Balance (Ex): At 11th level, the attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by –1 for a two-weapon warrior. Alternatively, he may use a one-handed weapon in his off-hand, treating it as if it were a light weapon with the normal light weapon penalties. This ability replaces armor training 3.
Equal Opportunity (Ex): At 13th level, when a two-weapon warrior makes an attack of opportunity, he may attack once with both his primary and secondary weapons. The penalties for attacking with two weapons apply normally. This ability replaces weapon training 3.
Perfect Balance (Ex): At 15th level, the penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by an additional –1 for a two-weapon warrior. This benefit stacks with improved balance. If he is using a one-handed weapon in his off hand, treating it as a light weapon, he uses the normal light weapon penalties. This ability replaces armor training 4.
Deft Doublestrike (Ex): At 17th level, when a two-weapon warrior hits an opponent with both weapons, he can make a disarm or sunder attempt (or trip, if one or both weapons can be used to trip) against that opponent as an immediate action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This ability replaces weapon training 4.
Deadly Defense (Ex): At 19th level, when a two-weapon warrior makes a full attack with both weapons, every creature that hits him with a melee attack before the beginning of his next turn provokes an attack of opportunity from the warrior. This ability replaces armor mastery.
I'm at the very start of Book 2, chose to protect Kelmarane with Dashki which apparently makes me trust him now, so my name and title is: Isaac - Knight Protector of Kelmarane.
I'm also wearing Muleback Cords, so can carry a lot.
Last session there were about 10 or 15 trogs (some bigger than others), and not one of them managed to hit me, but because of my low life and the fact I'm at the front all of the time, I'm a little worried if I'll survive next session or not, as every other party member (Zen Archer, Bomb Throwing Alchemist and Draconic Sorcerer) has more life than me. though I do have the highest AC.
Does everything look okay, and look as though it'll work fine?
As I say, I'm fairly new to this, and this is the first time I've ever had a character reach level 6 (ha!). Only slightly annoying thing is that because I have such low intelligence (I said to the DM it was from too many hits to the head in the Gladiatorial Arena) I have to have some kind of speech problem, such as a stutter or being unable to talk properly, so I opted for not being able to pronounce my R's. Instead they're replaced with W's, so I have to talk like that whenever I play, but hey, it's different.
Having that low of a strength as a fighter is bad. Even if the Sunblade is finesseable, you won't be able to afford one for a while, meaning your to-hit suffers a lot at low levels, and the weapon itself is only decent against undead. You're already gimping yourself in the damage department by playing a small race with a strength penalty.
If you want to stick with halfling TWF, then you're better off doubling up on weapons of the same type, to double your benefits from Weapon Focus/Weapon Specialization. Kukri's are a good choice because of the crit range, and filling out the Critical chain is a good idea, especially because all the extra attacks you get will mean more chances to crit.
If you can get Dervish Dance, a scimitar becomes an excellent main-hand weapon, but you again run into the problem of getting less bang for your buck with WF. Your damage output will be far, far behind a TWF rogue, so you want to focus on what benefits you can provide, with the Critical debuffs being excellent, though only available at higher levels.
Two-Weapon Defense as a feat is meh to me. You'll want to get yourself a Mithral Breastplate instead of leather armor. Double Slice will do very little to nothing for you considering your terribly low strength.
Two-Weapon Defense as a feat is meh to me. You'll want to get yourself a Mithral Breastplate instead of leather armor. Double Slice will do very little to nothing for you considering your terribly low strength.
Well, will the +6 strength that I should have, along with the extra damage from my feats and Two-Weapon Warrior class not be enough to be decent at level 20?
I should have:
+5 atk and damage from weapon (+5 weapon later on)
+5 atk and damage from class at level 20
= 10 damage
+6 str belt
+3 str added onto the current stats as an inherent bonus
13 current str
= 16 damage
+ 2 damage from weapon specialisation
+ 2 damage from improved WS
= 20 damage
Power attack level 20 gives an extra 8 damage
weapon deals 1d8 damage
=36 max damage
1d6 shocking for normal hits
=42 max damage
+1d10 rend damage when both weapons hit
means 52 max damage x 5 if it's in my off hand = max possible 260 damage if I get all attacks off at max damage (won't ever happen, but just using it as an example), and my 2d6 bleed damage from a critical, and 1 (or 2 when my xcrit bonus goes up)d10 thundering and 1 bleed from each normal attack, as well as abilities from crit cards.
Then if I have enough enemies around me and have Combat Reflexes, I could technically get a max of 18 attacks off, as I have 5 Dex and get two attacks for every attack of opportunity by level 20.
On top of this, TWW allows me to get an AoO against anyone who attacks me between my next turn.
Yet, if I had a different race and knew this would be the path I'd take from the start, I could have had a lot more? That's insane. Silly amount of damage. :p
Anyway yea, my DM gave me base stats, race and class in the last campaign and I carried the character over as I liked him, slightly changing his stats and making him level 1 (he only reached level 3 before being killed in a stampede in the previous campaign...only one party member survived and that was the mediocre one), and was told he's probably one of the strongest halflings around, but I've only really worked out what I wanted to do with him and so far he's survived longer than any other character I've played (including a Barbarian and Sorceress).
Also, I forgot to mention, I was planning to save up for another Bastard Sword for when my Sunblade proves ineffective.
I also have a ring of featherfall right now, so can't take fall damage.
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If you can get Dervish Dance, a scimitar becomes an excellent main-hand weapon, but you again run into the problem of getting less bang for your buck with WF. Your damage output will be far, far behind a TWF rogue, so you want to focus on what benefits you can provide, with the Critical debuffs being excellent, though only available at higher levels.
Actually if you take Dervish Dance you cannot have an offhand weapon but is a really nice route to go especially with that 20 Dex and low Str
First thing I'm going to advise you on is to not look at level 20, but to look at level 7. And when you're level 7, look at level 8. Is doing 1d8+3 and 1d4+1 damage good compared to a greatsword fighter doing 2d6+16? It's up to you to decide that, but, just don't assume you'll end up cherry picking out 50,000 gp weapons by level 11.
Actually if you take Dervish Dance you cannot have an offhand weapon but is a really nice route to go especially with that 20 Dex and low Str
What's Dervish Dance? If it's a new fighter sub class, I'm not allowed to change, and it doesn't appear to be a feat, and it would void all of my two weapon fighting abilities, but nice suggestion for a future class. So, thanks for that! :)
Only allowed to use APG and Core for this.
Ice Titan - Well, no. A Greatsword Fighter dealing that much damage is awesome, but the idea I started out with my little Halfling was to be able to hit fairly hard (nothing like a Greatsword Fighter or Barbarian), but get so many attacks off that he more than makes up for it.
Also, regarding the expense of things; Yea, I know. It's all rather expensive, but a lot of these things I might actually find lower versions of, and I'm hoping I can save up for a lot of it.
Saving for all of it is unlikely, but if I actually manage to, it'll be great.
The DM is running the campaign at medium progression for levelling and money aspects. :)
You're just going to have a hard time dishing out any competitive amounts of damage compared to pretty much anyone else at your level. You might consider multiclassing into rogue, as the extra sneak attack dice on every hit are what really make TWF shine. And it would allow you to really use your small size and racial bonuses to your advantage.
You're just going to have a hard time dishing out any competitive amounts of damage compared to pretty much anyone else at your level. You might consider multiclassing into rogue, as the extra sneak attack dice on every hit are what really make TWF shine. And it would allow you to really use your small size and racial bonuses to your advantage.
Ah, I did always like the sneak attack damage, but the only problem with that is, I won't benefit from following TWW all the way. I love the TWW abilities.
Probably 11 levels TWW and 9 Rogue would be good, but I just don't know if it's worth it due to the fact I think a sneak attack takes a full round action. :/
I'm also pretty much relying on my current loadout to get me to an AC of 42 when making a full attack. I doubt the AC will be high enough to be untouchable, but it'll be pretty good.
As for only worrying about feats as I level up, I tried that before and failed so took a new approach of working out what I want to do beforehand. I guess I'm just trying completely new things, but I want to stick with one class while I'm still learning before jumping between classes, unlike what I've seen people do on here, where they have like 5 or 6 different classes as they know how to exploit the abilities and make something extremely good.
In at least a few cases, you can use rogue talents to pick up some combat feats, especially depending on any archetypes you pick up. 4 levels of rogue nets you 2d6 sneak attack, evasion, uncanny dodge, possibly trapfinding, perception and acrobatics as class skills, and a higher reflex save, and you only lose 1 point of BAB. A worthwhile trade, imo.
In at least a few cases, you can use rogue talents to pick up some combat feats, especially depending on any archetypes you pick up. 4 levels of rogue nets you 2d6 sneak attack, evasion, uncanny dodge, possibly trapfinding, perception and acrobatics as class skills, and a higher reflex save, and you only lose 1 point of BAB. A worthwhile trade, imo.
My DM just told me if I go into Rogue and perform a sneak attack, I can't use both weapons anyway, but a Rogue is something I always wanted to do.
Also, making attacks of opportunity, how does that work?
I read about it in the core book, but it didn't explain it enough for me to really get it.
If you're making an AoO, to me that's different from an enemy provoking an AoO, so I'd imagine to make one, you can kick someone (that provokes an AoO on yourself, but can give you the advantage if successful) to throw them off guard and then attack, but can you get your AoO off in the same round to deal extra damage, or do you have to wait until next round?
He may perhaps be thinking of the old 3.x rules of sneak attack. In Pathfinder, a rogue can sneak attack as many times in a round as he has attacks that qualify. So you can full attack an enemy while flanking and get a sneak attack for every hit. Attacks of opportunity are something you can do when an enemy 'provokes', whether that's doing something like firing a ranged weapon in melee range or moving past you to get to someone else. It's essentially a free attack on them, though you only get one per round unless you have Combat Reflexes. You can attempt combat maneuvers on an AoO, like trip, disarm, or sunder, but without the proper feats you yourself would provoke an AoO from the enemy. If the enemy happens to be in such a position that you'd qualify for sneak attack damage when he provokes, such as passing between a flank or walking by you while you're successfully hidden, you'd get sneak attack against him.
He may perhaps be thinking of the old 3.x rules of sneak attack. In Pathfinder, a rogue can sneak attack as many times in a round as he has attacks that qualify. So you can full attack an enemy while flanking and get a sneak attack for every hit.
It was the same in 3.5, i don't know about 3.0 though.
But yes in pathfinder you get to sneak attack with every attack if you qualify for sneak attack (that usually means flanking).
The nice thing about going for a high-crit weapon and the crit chain as a TWF rogue is the ability to debuff your enemies with things like blinded, which guarantees you sneak attack, regardless of flanking.
The nice thing about going for a high-crit weapon and the crit chain as a TWF rogue is the ability to debuff your enemies with things like blinded, which guarantees you sneak attack, regardless of flanking.
Ah, that's awesome.
Thanks for explaining the Attack of Opportunity thing to me by the way. :)
Basically I'm swapping out Power Attack for Combat Reflexes, as Power Attack's bonus to damage is halved when attacking with an off hand weapon, so it's really only going to be any good when I attack with my primary weapon. To me that's not great as I'll have only 3 primary attacks in comparison to my 5 off hands.
With Two-Weapon Warrior, when you've made a full attack on anything, until your next round, anything that hits you provokes an attack of opportunity, so I figured with my +5 Dex Bonus, adding in Combat Reflexes on top of this will be a great idea.
If 5 enemies run past me, I can attack all five, and one of the great abilities of Two-Weapon Warrior allows you to add your off hand as well as your primary to Attacks of Opportunity.
I guess in short, I should hopefully be a good all rounder, and be great defensively.
but the idea I started out with my little Halfling was to be able to hit fairly hard (nothing like a Greatsword Fighter or Barbarian), but get so many attacks off that he more than makes up for it.
This is pretty much TWF at its core.
You want and need to take power attack. Power attack for an actual competitive build is not an option. At level 15, monsters will have from 110 to 150 hp. Doing 1d8+11 and 1d8+10 damage to them is not good when you could be doing 1d8+21 and 1d8+20. I once had a player come to my table who described his character as a "melee powerhouse" who did 1d6+3 damage. That is not good damage. If you do bad damage to monsters, you're going to be ignored for the people doing real damage.
Multiclassing into a rogue for sneak attack with no one in the party to flank for you is a horrible idea. You have 3 ranged characters in that group with you as the only frontliner. You will not get sneak attack off that much to be reliable. The only way you will get a sneak attack off is if you sandwich enemies between you and the casters, which is just bad all around, or in the surprise round.
On top of that, medium progression and money is actually less than what Legacy of Fire was written for. It is made for 3.5 and is made for fast progression. You are going to have less money. That is not smiley face.
3 primary attacks in comparison to my 5 off hands.
What? How are you getting 5 offhand attacks?
+20/+15/+10/+5 from BAB. 4 mainhand attacks. TWF, Imp TWF and GTWF for 3 offhand attacks. So, uh, what?
Also, your to-hit will often always be above an enemy's AC once you get a good amount of magic items and bonuses. Power attack lets you hit when you roll a 6 instead of a 2, but in return it lets you do often twice as much damage. It is a good feat. I cannot advocate Power Attack enough.
If I had to remove a feat for Combat Reflexes, it would be Two Weapon Defense. +1 to AC that doesn't add to touch AC, unlike Dodge, is actually pointless. Add in that it only works if you make an attack with two weapons and you are better off having 1 less AC. I would re-train that feat into Combat Reflexes at a much higher level, though. You know. Like level 18. Whe
If 5 enemies run past me, I can attack all five, and one of the great abilities of Two-Weapon Warrior allows you to add your off hand as well as your primary to Attacks of Opportunity.
Is your GM provoking this many attacks of opportunity from you now?
If they are not, they never will. I've had Combat Reflexes in games before where I've never used it except for keeping my attack of opportunity after using a maneuver that provoked one. In one game I had it from level 7 on and only had one enemy provoke from it twice. Don't expect to nova around provoking from everyone, especially because you're small and easy to just ignore.
As an aside, you don't get the "provoke AoOs when attacked" until 19th level. Legacy of Fire does not go to 19th level. Don't even worry about it.
What? How are you getting 5 offhand attacks?
+20/+15/+10/+5 from BAB. 4 mainhand attacks. TWF, Imp TWF and GTWF for 3 offhand attacks. So, uh, what?
Basically I have two weapon fighting (got that from the start), so my attack was primary, secondary. Now I've just reached level 6 I have another primary and another secondary from Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, making 4 attacks.
Hmm, right okay got it. Yea, basically my DM said I'll have three primary and 5 off hand for whatever reason, but if you have 4 by the time you reach level 20, that's 4 primary, and three off hand? Meaning I get 7 instead of 8 I guess.
The one thing I don't like is if Two-Weapon fighting gives you an extra off hand attack on your first attack, why can't it on every other attack, as well as the two on top from Improved and Great TWF? That would mean I'd get 10 attacks instead of 7 and to me makes more sense because otherwise the attack pattern is more like this:
Primary
Secondary
Primary
Primary
Primary
Secondary
Secondary
If you fight with two weapons, you'd alternate between the two, not focus solely on your primary like the above pattern. Eurgh, confusing.
As for the AoO's, right now there have only been a few chances to get some off, and that's partly because they try to get past me to attack my bigger allies (even though I took out 8 Gnoll's and 2 Bugbears on my own, only taking 10 damage, when I had them coming from in front and to the side), or try to escape us when blocking things in a room.
So, if it really isn't going to be happening later on, maybe I should take it out. It's just power attack would only be worthwhile for my primary, and if I'm getting a Sunblade for finessing, it might not be a great idea, and I just get the impression getting power attack would be a waste if I can't use all of its bonus on both of my weapons. :/
I know it's been suggested, but I'm not going into Rogue anyway. I'm keeping myself in TWW, and I'm not the only one who's up front. The monk like to get up close (just behind me) and shoot everything with mega powered arrows, so usually things are dead before my slow speed halfling can even get there, but I'm always left at the front for if things come out to attack me as I open doors or pass passageways etc. Although, I have been able to block things and stop them from passing me quite well, so there is that on my side.
Damage wise, when I get all of my abilities such as a +5 Bastard Sword, my +4 to atk and dmg roles when making a full attack, +6 dmg from a belt of physical might my +4 dmg from weapon specialisation and greater weapon specialisation on top of my wounding, shocking burst work with normal hits, I should be able to deal about 19 damage plus 1 bleed and 1d6 shock on every normal attack, making it a max of 26 damage (34 with the weapon being a 1d8). So a minimum of 22 per attack, and if I get both attacks off with both being the equivalent to Bastard Swords, that's an extra 1d10 rend on top, although I think you can only rend once per round.
Also, in regards to the campaign, I mentioned this to my DM and he said that if we do every single side quest (which as a party we have been doing and intend to continue doing), he reckons we should reach level 19 or 20 fine (if we live that long).
Also, I didn't know dodge adds to touch AC as well, so thanks for that. Ha, but yea I have Two-Weapon Defense because I am built around making full attacks with both weapons. I'll run up to something and hit it once, then just wait and stay in the same place attacking, only moving if I really need to, but I don't allow myself to run away from combat, because if I do that, even though the monk is so overpowered he can kill anything, it would still risk putting the Sorcerer in harms way (even if he likes running up with a bowie knife and claws at times).
I don't even need to worry about the alchemist though, as whenever he chucks a bomb down, everything of large size in proximity drops in one or two rounds, and he's a Half-Orc who focuses in spiked chain combat when not chucking bombs.
I know I've asked a lot of questions above, but if you can help me to clear those things up, it'll be greatly appreciated as I think my DMC was saying all of the extra attacks you get as you level up are for your off hand, which I think is wrong, unless I just misunderstood how he was explaining it.
Edit: Oh, one thing I forgot was about Damage Reduction.
Is it worth getting both of the Penetrating Strike feats, because I was told when you have a +5 weapon, all of the damage goes through regardless, like damage reduction can't stop anything from going through at later levels with a weapon like that.
If this isn't the case, I will get it, as I've only updated my feat tree to level 16 or 17.
Just found it in the Advanced Gear, but basically although a Falcata Blade is nice, the x3 bonus is useless as my DM plays with Crit cards.
Regardless of your critical multiplier, unless the card says x3 damage, we're not allowed to do it.
If we have a x3 weapon and the card says x2, we have to do a x2, so although it's a nice weapon with a nice low crit range for a x3 weapon, I'm probably better off with my current weapons because of the way our DM runs things.
I personally don't like crit cards because of this reason, but it's the way we have to play.
Iron will is a cool idea, but +2 isn't that great. :(
Using something fringe like Crit cards and being determined to use Bastard Swords limits your build greatly from a sheerly mechanical point of view. Is your build functional? Yes. Is it optimal? Not at all. Play whatever is the most fun for you, but know that your damage will be far below an 'optimized' fighter. If you're okay with that, then you'll do fine.
Using something fringe like Crit cards and being determined to use Bastard Swords limits your build greatly from a sheerly mechanical point of view. Is your build functional? Yes. Is it optimal? Not at all. Play whatever is the most fun for you, but know that your damage will be far below an 'optimized' fighter. If you're okay with that, then you'll do fine.
Hmm, I guess optimising a fighter is new to me, as I'm still learning all of the classes and where they excel. I'm not one of these people who know the entire ins and outs of the game, so the only way I can learn is by trying things with my character and seeing the outcome, and asking helpful and polite guys such as yourself.
I just hope that because he's functional, he can stand a good chance of reaching the end. An AC of 42 or 44 by the end of it should help a great deal I think, but I've sheerly gone with Bastard Swords, as they do the most damage for my little guy, whilst still keeping an okay crit range.
I don't like crit cards because I feel although they have cool abilities sometimes, they limit the game too much, and if you don't like your crit card, or its effects are ineffective for that instance, you're not allowed to just say "no, I want to use my x3 for my weapon instead".
https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=15x4he4WAFYNsoeYgNG8KaEjPH2OvzF2dU jiy8BL1h14&hl=en&pli=1#
Read through the guide. It's handily color coded and gives an explanation for why certain things are good or bad.
Not all damage reduction can be overcame with the exception of said penetrating strike, many monsters will have DR/- which can't be overcome by any other means.
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This build is going to be mess until you hit level 11, given the very ineffective focus on both bastard sword AND shortsword during the first 10 levels. What I would do is ignore the Bastard sword crap and focus on wielding two shortswords: weapon focus, weapon specialization, improved weapon focus, improved crit, etc, etc.
If you ever get a Sunblade, the thing can be wielded as a shortsword, so no loss there.
Maybe check with your DM and ask him if you can switch all of those feats to Bastard Sword when you hit level 11?
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Iron Will is a good feat all by itself: +2 is actually a very big boost for most fighters.
The thing that makes Iron Will a GREAT feat is that you have to take it before you take Improved Iron Will, which is (IMO) just about priceless for a fighter. Rolling twice to not be feared, confused or charmed is pretty dang useful, even if it is only once per day.
Iron Will is a good feat all by itself: +2 is actually a very big boost for most fighters.
The thing that makes Iron Will a GREAT feat is that you have to take it before you take Improved Iron Will, which is (IMO) just about priceless for a fighter. Rolling twice to not be feared, confused or charmed is pretty dang useful, even if it is only once per day.
Ah, I wasn't going to waste feats focusing on Shortswords and Bastard swords. Instead I've been relying on reaching level 11 to buy another Bastard Sword (went with Bastard's instead of Shortsword focus because I needed to make up for my lack of damage by being a fairly weak class).
As for the Iron Will, I already almost killed two of my companions and became a were katapeshi leopard for a period of time as I failed every save imaginable and killed our only cleric in the party at level 3. We rely on potions and the alchemist helps a bit. This made party members distrust me, but the Belladonna worked fine (even though I didn't know it could actually kill me).
Anyway, yea, my point is I'll try and work out a way to fit Iron Will into my Feat Tree. I'm thinking about moving power attack to level 17 and putting Iron Will for a level 7 feat (not sure where to put Improved Iron Will, but probably will put it at level 16 although that's probably a bad idea).
Ghostalker - So, is it worth getting Penetrating Strike? Does that mean it can go through creatures with DR10/- ? I think I read that it's impossible to use it on something without a specially assigned Damaged Reduction. If so, I guess it'd be a good idea to go for that too. :)
Everyone else - Thanks a lot for the suggestions and help. :D
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Iron Will is a good feat all by itself: +2 is actually a very big boost for most fighters.
The thing that makes Iron Will a GREAT feat is that you have to take it before you take Improved Iron Will, which is (IMO) just about priceless for a fighter. Rolling twice to not be feared, confused or charmed is pretty dang useful, even if it is only once per day.
Ah, I wasn't going to waste feats focusing on Shortswords and Bastard swords. Instead I've been relying on reaching level 11 to buy another Bastard Sword (went with Bastard's instead of Shortsword focus because I needed to make up for my lack of damage by being a fairly weak class).
As for the Iron Will, I already almost killed two of my companions and became a were katapeshi leopard for a period of time as I failed every save imaginable and killed our only cleric in the party at level 3. We rely on potions and the alchemist helps a bit. This made party members distrust me, but the Belladonna worked fine (even though I didn't know it could actually kill me).
Anyway, yea, my point is I'll try and work out a way to fit Iron Will into my Feat Tree. I'm thinking about moving power attack to level 17 and putting Iron Will for a level 7 feat (not sure where to put Improved Iron Will, but probably will put it at level 16 although that's probably a bad idea).
Ghostalker - So, is it worth getting Penetrating Strike? Does that mean it can go through creatures with DR10/- ? I think I read that it's impossible to use it on something without a specially assigned Damaged Reduction. If so, I guess it'd be a good idea to go for that too. :)
Everyone else - Thanks a lot for the suggestions and help. :D
Well to jump in here since you are still considering the Power Attack feat you may just want to grab Pirahna Strike instead. It's the same thing really but thematically better for your character.
:
You make a combination of quick strikes, sacrificing accuracy for multiple, minor wounds that prove exceptionally deadly.
Prerequisites: Weapon Finesse, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: When wielding a light weapon, you can choose to take a -1 penalty on all melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks to gain a +2 bonus on all melee damage rolls. This bonus to damage is halved (-50%) if you are making an attack with an off-hand weapon or secondary natural weapon. When your base attack bonus reaches +4, and for every 4 points thereafter, the penalty increases by -1 and the bonus on damage rolls increases by +2. You must choose to use this feat before the attack roll, and its effects last until your next turn. The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage. This feat cannot be used in conjunction with the Power Attack feat.
As for penetrating strike, it's really not worth it. Magical weapons defeat DR based on the plus's. And since it doesn't affect untyped DR it's kind of a wasted feat.
And as Argus said if you don't burn a few feats on focusing on your weapon (weapon Focus/Specialization, power attack, etc) you're hit and damage are really gonna be in the toilet. Fighter damage is all about getting the hits and using your damage bonus to bring the pain, the weapons damage is pretty unimportant.
@Mathwei ap Niall
Aww, it's a shame it's exactly the same as Power Attack and even shares the same off hand penalty (50% reduction). :(
Quick edit: Actually, I just realised that Power Attack makes you declare the attack for every attack where as this doesn't. It still doesn't change the damage output at all, but just means I don't have to call it for every attack. Shame I can only get half from the off hand still. It kinda defy's the point of being able to use two weapons ha.
Is weapon specialisation and weapon focus along with a wounding, shock weapon and all of my Str bonus (that I should get eventually), weapon bonus and damage bonus from Two-Weapon Warrior (as well as two weapon rend) not going to be enough then? It'll do 32 damage minimum later on. :/
Power attack is cool but not for my off hand. Always drawbacks!
Still, this is probably my best build so far (even if it's abysmal to you guys). :p
You're just fighting an uphill battle against being a small character with low strength trying to be a competitive DPR fighter. Most fighters of any focus don't like to start with anything less than a 16 strength, and, with the exception of halfling mounted fighters, are pretty much always medium. Yes, later on you'll get gear that will increase your damage. But that gear would give even more damage to a fully optimized fighter. And at low levels, before you gain the large gear, level, and feat advantage, you're going to do painfully low damage. As long as you're aware of that and fine with it, then enjoy being an anklebiter.
Ghostalker - So, is it worth getting Penetrating Strike? Does that mean it can go through creatures with DR10/- ? I think I read that it's impossible to use it on something without a specially assigned Damaged Reduction. If so, I guess it'd be a good idea to go for that too. :)
Thats why it requires such a high bab and fighter only, it's the only thing in the game that bypasses such DRs.
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@Mathwei ap Niall
Aww, it's a shame it's exactly the same as Power Attack and even shares the same off hand penalty (50% reduction). :(
Quick edit: Actually, I just realised that Power Attack makes you declare the attack for every attack where as this doesn't. It still doesn't change the damage output at all, but just means I don't have to call it for every attack. Shame I can only get half from the off hand still. It kinda defy's the point of being able to use two weapons ha.
Is weapon specialisation and weapon focus along with a wounding, shock weapon and all of my Str bonus (that I should get eventually), weapon bonus and damage bonus from Two-Weapon Warrior (as well as two weapon rend) not going to be enough then? It'll do 32 damage minimum later on. :/
Power attack is cool but not for my off hand. Always drawbacks!
Still, this is probably my best build so far (even if it's abysmal to you guys). :p
Honestly? No, it's nowhere near close enough.
Wounding and shock are poor enchants, Shock is about 3.5 more points of damage and is the second most common immunity in the game.
Wounding takes to long to actually do any real damage (you have 7 attacks, say 4 hit each round, in a 5 round fight that will add 58 pts of damage total which can all be prevented by a
1 point cure spell or any Regeneration or Fast Heal) and is frightfully expensive for it.
You have no mobility in a fight and if the opponent moves more than 5ft a round your damage drops to slightly above 0.
Your AC is dependent on getting a full round attack for your bonuses to kick in and you are incapable of making a will save against anything at your level and your Reflex save is barely better ((you have a +6 will & +11 reflex save and no room or available wealth by level for a cloak of resistance)
You only have 20ft movement so anyone who wants to can stay out of range of your attacks and you have no way to deal with Reach based opponents.
By the end of the AP you'll be frontlining it against foes who will be floating at greater than +30 to hit, AC's around 35 with DR 10-15 and 300+ hit points with all kinds of special abilities.
Now lets break down what you'll be doing with all the gear and feats you've chosen at level 17 (about where the AP stops) against a CR appropriate opponent (CR17 Wendigo)
Main Hand = +29/+24/+19/+14 1d8+15 Average 20 per Hit
Off Hand = +30/+25/+20 1d8+18 + 1D6 shock average 27 per hit.
(You are small sized so your weapons drop a damage die for it or you take a big hit on your to hit bonus for wielding over sized weapon and can't TWF with them.
Also if it makes a 6 foot move you drop down by 4 to hit, damage and AC.)
Your first 2 attacks will probably hit but the second round of attacks have a %40+ miss chance and the rest of them are at over %50-%65 miss chance so don't expect them to do much of anything.
You can't resist any of it's special abilities you can't do a thing to it if it decides to move 6ft or hover 10 feet in the air over you. It will laugh off your bleed damage (2d6 bleed is less than it's +15 regen) and it's fort safe auto passes your DC check for all your save inducing abilities.
This is just the first CR17 critter I saw, the rest are actually nastier.
I have to say it, you will NOT be a sexy, shoeless, god of war with this build.
If you want to be a true damage machine drop the bastard swords and the two weapon warrior archetype, and switch to Kukri's and focus on Critical feats and status effect enchants while pumping your Strength and weapon training abilities. Do it right and you will be doing +20-30 bonus damage on regular hits with a higher bonus to hit.
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Thats why it requires such a high bab and fighter only, it's the only thing in the game that bypasses such DRs.
Ghostalker - So, is it worth getting Penetrating Strike? Does that mean it can go through creatures with DR10/- ? I think I read that it's impossible to use it on something without a specially assigned Damaged Reduction. If so, I guess it'd be a good idea to go for that too. :)
Penetrating Strike specifically states it does not bypass that kind of DR and only goes through the first 5 ponts of other kinds. Skip it.
Penetrating Strike (Combat)
Your attacks are capable of penetrating the defenses of some creatures.
Prerequisites: Weapon Focus, base attack bonus +1, 12th-level fighter, proficiency with weapon.
Benefit: Your attacks made with weapons selected with Weapon Focus ignore up to 5 points of damage reduction. This feat does not apply to damage reduction without a type (such as DR 10/—)
Dude,
If you're gonna persist with a halfling- here's a more effective tree.
Get the Birthmark Trait- +2 vs enchantment saves
Level 1: Two Weapon Fighting
- Weapon Finesse
Level 2: Wpn Fcs: Shortsword
Level 3: Iron Will
Level 4: Wpn Spl: Shortsword
Level 5: Power Attack
Level 6: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 7: Combat Reflexes
Level 8: Gtr Wpn Fcs: Shortsword (Retrain Weapon Finesse out here when your points to str+ a str item make your STR decent, swap for Improved Critical)
Level 9:Critical Focus
Level 10: SickeningCritical
Level 11: Two Weapon Rend
Level 12: Penetrating Strike
Level 13: Staggering Critical
Level 14: Improved Iron Will
Level 15: Blinding Critical
Level 16: Gtr Penetrating Strike
Level 17: Stunning Critical
Level 18: Gtr Two Weapon Fighting
Level 19: Gtr Wpn Spl
Level 20:
Now:
Put all your Fcs/Spl into Shortsword (applies to both hands and works on the sunblade as well)-with your low str, you need all the +'s to hit and damage on BOTH hands you can getYour Str sux- meaning Doubleslice has little value to you until later levels when you boost it through items/tomes and level up points.
Likewise, after you boost it high enough, Wpn finesse won't matter as much, letting you take another feat.
Pen Strike and Greater ARE good vs DR, stops your damage from sucking.
The trait and Iron Will give +4 vs enchantment (the school you're most worried about) and let you re-roll a fail.
You'll crit heaps, sickened is better than bleed and the whole party benefits. Staggering is at least one round. Stunned is better.
PUT ALL level increases into STR and you need tomes
Thanks a lot for the help guys, though sadly it doesn't matter now. The poor little guy was killed because the Carrion King turned out to be a Barbarian who dealt 2D6 + 17 on me and got a critical, taking me down to -30 (16 past my limit) and then attacked me once more on the floor.
Funny thing is, I was right next to a tower door, so could have run away, climbed the tower and jumped out of the window, but I had a Sorcerer and Half-Orc alchemist behind me, so had to give my life as I didn't want the other guys to get killed if I ran off. So, I just stood there, healed the first attack with a cure mod for a measly 5 hit points, then died, then the alchemist died, then the sorcerer died, and the overpowered monk who always insisted on us working as a group decided to run away without checking if anyone was still alive, tried to save some slaves outside from 10 unchosen gnoll's and ran away again, leaving them to die.
Hmm, he mocked my halfling from the beginning of the game up to my death saying he was stupid and incapable of fighting and threatening slavery on him all of the time, then runs. Didn't help that we were only just level 6 and the CR went up to 18 because the King had a huge Centipede pet as well.
Doesn't look like the DM wants to continue the story for us anymore, but I made a new character that's a two-handed fighter who at level 7 can do 1D10+15 with a Crit Range of 15-20 x 2 when he reaches level 8. AC is 23.
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That's a bummer. Next time though, give a spoiler alert when listing something from the published adventures. Good thing my group is already past this point in the adventure. We were lucky in this session due to strategic use of create pits and such on the Carrion guy, plus we bypassed everything coming from a direction we did not expect.
For the halfling guy, depending on the rest of the party composition, the precise strike teamwork feat is also an option if you want the extra damage but don't want to dabble into rogue. Though for a dex guy, going rogue is a rather attractive option.
<snipped>That's a bummer. Next time though, give a spoiler alert when listing something from the published adventures. Good thing my group is already past this point in the adventure. We were lucky in this session due to strategic use of create pits and such on the Carrion guy, plus we bypassed everything coming from a direction we did not expect.
For the halfling guy, depending on the rest of the party composition, the precise strike teamwork feat is also an option if you want the extra damage but don't want to dabble into rogue. Though for a dex guy, going rogue is a rather attractive option.
Oops, sorry. I didn't think it was that big of a spoiler, but I'll edit the post now. :)
Yea, would be good if other people had that for their characters but everyone was behind me. Davor the Bomb throwing Alchemist had a pretty good idea (going invisible and appearing in front of him to attack with bulls strength), but too bad he failed and got insta-killed. :/
Our main problem was, we had no cleric as my character unwillingly killed the cleric earlier on in the game. An affliction made him do it, but yea I won't go into detail on that.
Edit: Won't let me edit my above post. Sorry.