Hi all, I am attempting some synthesist builds in the meantime. I understand some of the synthesist rules are unclear. I will not be using armor in these builds because I suspect it is likely that when the developers get around to it, that they will not allow a synthesist to wear armor. Also, as you will see from the first build, armor is completely unnecessary for a synthesist to compete in the area of armor class. Also, although the issue of healing is still not clear, I am also assuming that the developers will get around to fixing that. Here is my first synthesist build. A semi-cheesy dervish dance build. Yes he is going to be using his dexterity on damage for natural attacks too. It is only semi cheesy because this is the only way for a dex based eidolon to be viable.
dervish dance synthesist:
Lvl 10 Jason Lee Scott the half-elf fused dancing summoner
Str 10-3 age=7 (18 fused)
Dex 12-3 age+4 enhancement=13 (28 fused)
Con 15-3 age+2enhancement=14 (19 fused)
Int 8+2age=10
Wis 14+2age+2 racial= 18
Cha 13+2age= 15
HP=8 +4.5*9+20=68.5 avg(88.5 fused + 76 temporary hp)
Normal AC= 10+1 dex+4 mage armor+4 barkskin=19
Fused AC= 10+9 dex+10 NA+ 4 mage armor+4 barkskin enhancement to na+2shield meld=40 fused touch ac=19
Fortitude save=3 base+2 con+2circumstance+1 trait+2 resistance=+10(+14 fused, +2 more with heroism)
Reflex=3 base+1 dex+2 circumstance+2 resistance=+8(+18 fused, +2 more w/heroism)
Will save= 7 base+ 4 wis+2 circumstance+2 resistance=+15( +2 more w/heroism)
Skills: profession:dance(2ranks),use magic device(+15), spellcraft(+11)
Bab=7
racial traits: ancestral arms,elven immunities, elf blood, keen senses.
Feats: free mwp:scimitar, arcane strike(swift action for +3 damage), weapon finesse ,dervish dance, weapon focus(scimitar), weapon focus(pincers).
important class ability: shielded meld(+2 shield bonus to ac, +2 circumstance bonus to saves when fused)
Traits: forlorn(+1 trait bonus to fort saves) and indomitable faith(+1 trait bonus to will saves)
Equipment(56k out of 62k spent): mighty fists +2(20k),cloak of resistance+2(4k), belt of dexterity+4(16k) ,1 +2 scimitar 8k, +2 con ioun stone(8k)
eidolon:
Quadraped Eidolon
Str 14+4 lvls=18
Dex 14+2lvls+4evolutions+4dex bonus+4 enhancement=28
Con 13+4 evolution+2 enhancement=19
Hp=8*5.5+32=76 avg
AC= 10+9 dex+10 NA+ 4 mage armor+4 barkskin enhancement to na=38
Natural Armor(2 base+8 from lvls)
Bab=8
base evolutions: bite, limbs legs x2.
Evolutions(16): pounce, limbs: arms x1, Pincers x2 on legs, 2x ability increase dex, 2x ability increase con, energy attacks, and scent.
Special: darkvision, share spells, evasion, devotion, multiattack.
I picked pincers because they are already secondary natural weapons and are 1 damage die up from claws. Also they can be construed to be put on your legs since the evolution does not require that they be on your arms. If anyone is uncomfortable with leg pincers, you can mentally sub in hooves which are a d4 damage.
Well actually I am alittle stuck on this one at the moment. I need to pick out worthwhile feats, equipment, and spells known.
The pros of an offensive synthesist caster:
Your will have a higher dc saving throw than regular full casters since you can boost your casting stat.
Your defenses will be incomparably higher(saving throws, AC, hit points).
You will have constant access to so many sensory evolutions. scent, tremorsense, see in darkness, blindsense, blindsight, etc. Your party will never be caught off guard.
Cons:
fewer spells known, smaller spell list, fewer spells per day.
It is likely that unless you avoid sleeping, your up to 8 point higher charisma score is not going to be getting you more spells per day.
Also, your summon monster class ability is pretty much wasted.
What would make this build really cool? If the frightful presence evolution used the summoner's HD, he could have a really cool static debuff. As it is now, it is relatively unclear whether the evolution would use your HD or the eidolon's HD when you are fused.The synthesist actually gets the evolution. It would be a similar issue if the summoner decided to pick it up with their greater aspect at lvl 18.
Its a feature of dervish dance( I may have not explained clearly enough).
There is a semi known feat called dervish dance which says, if you are wielding a scimitar in one hand and no weapon in the other, then you can add your dexterity to melee attack and damage. This would be all melee attack and damage.
I am sure down the line they will get to changing that but for the while, this is a dex to damage synthesist build.
possible way to meagerly increase my summoner spell options is to grab the new arcana power from the arcane blood line using the eldritch heritage feats.
after seeing some of your previous sample builds. does your dm actually let you play these things? is using octogenarians really a good basis to smile a class build?
Anyhow your first build has a flaw I'n that it appears to have no feat. pinchers need to be on the end of arms. secondly the bonus damage for dervish dance only applies to your scimitar. ( you may be aware of this but your word phrasing suggested otherwise )
after seeing some of your previous sample builds. does your dm actually let you play these things? is using octogenarians really a good basis to smile a class build?
I am not sure what much of that sentence means. But about whether I play these builds. I play some of them. Not necessarily in the exact form they are in up here. It depends. I do not sneak parts of the build past my dm anyway. So anything I use is not a surprise.
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Anyhow your first build has a flaw I'n that it appears to have no feat.
there are feats in the first build. Not sure I understand what you mean.
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pinchers need to be on the end of arms. secondly the bonus damage for dervish dance only applies to your scimitar. ( you may be aware of this but your word phrasing suggested otherwise )
Pincers do not "need" to be on the end of arms, I suspect they are meant to be on the ends of arms. Either way like I said before, swap out pincers for hooves if it bothers you.
Dervish dance does apply dex to attack and damage for melee attacks. So it does boost the natural attacks too.
The dervish dance build is just one of a very few ways to get a viable dexterity eidolon/synthesist build. If/when dervish dance get changed, the build will obviously no longer be valid.
my first comment was referring o the fact that senior citizens are not good examples for generating sample characters.
I am not sure I agree with you here. When people make optimized characters with point buy, they pick out certain stats and make them dump stats in order to maximize the relevant bonuses. Do you also find issue with the bountiful number of fighters with 7 charisma out there? I am mostly trying to optimize a build without damaging the characters general effectiveness. For a synthesist, most optimized builds will have the age bonuses and penalties because synthesists do not need to spend much of the day suffering from those penalties. Also applying age categories is a simple process and thus it is easy to see the gain from them and it is also easy to remove them if you want a younger character.
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the second reference was intended to refer to feet, as I'n the things on the end of your legs.
the eidolon has 4 legs and 2 arms yes? the pinchers have to go on the end of your arms. I'n which case your not wielding a scimitar.
pincers:
Pincers (Ex): An eidolon grows a large pincers at the end of one pair of its limbs, giving it two pincer attacks. These attacks are secondary attacks. The pincers deal 1d6 points of damage (1d8 if Large, 2d6 if Huge). Eidolons with the grab evolution linked to pincers gain a +2 bonus on CMB checks made to grapple. The eidolon must have the limbs (arms) evolution to take this evolution. Alternatively, the eidolon can replace the claws from its base form with pincers (this still costs 1 evolution point). This evolution can be selected more than once, but the eidolon must possess an equal number of the limbs evolution.
so I bolded a bunch of parts. first the fluff text doesn't specify arms. Then it only states that you have to have the arms evolution. to take it. Not that you have to have an arms evolution for each time you take it.
I agree with intent. Meant for the arms. I put pincers in the build as a whim, swapping down to hooves only drops avg weapon damage by 1. If this will be a distracting point we can move it to hooves permanently.
Want to make a viable dex based eidolon? Half-elf synthesist, with a flying, small, serpentine, fused eidolon form wielding two composite longbows (+4).
Want to make a viable dex based eidolon? Half-elf synthesist, with a flying, small, serpentine, fused eidolon form wielding two composite longbows (+4).
No go.
D20PFSRD wrote:
The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist.
Unless you like... reduce yourself before fusing, but then you have all sorts of duration issues.
I'm not sure what making your characters octogenarians has to do with fighters with a 7 Cha. personally I never bump below 8 and I have no issue making a summoner who Is.
8 14 13 12 10 17 with starting stats (warning I just did this in my head) but
5 str 5 dex 11 con senior citizens make for lousy sample characters. maybe it's a personal bias against the elderly I was previously un aware of?
I'm not sure what making your characters octogenarians has to do with fighters with a 7 Cha. personally I never bump below 8 and I have no issue making a summoner who Is.
8 14 13 12 10 17 with starting stats (warning I just did this in my head) but
5 str 5 dex 11 con senior citizens make for lousy sample characters. maybe it's a personal bias against the elderly I was previously un aware of?
Seeing as the character will be fused the majority of the time low physical stats are nothing to worry about, the eidolon covers that "weakness". That would be part of "optimizing" the character, getting the most out of what you can with what you have access to. Using age advancement is very common for optimized casters as magic allows for dealing with the drawbacks of lower physical stats and higher mental stats increases availability/strength of magic. If you don't like it by all means don't use it, but it is in the rule set so it remains an option when theorycrafting a character.
I think you missed my point, but I shall leave you to your theory crafting.
Reading your post, your point seemed to be that you don't agree with dump stats below 8... Correct? That you take issue with a "sample" character with 5's in stats. It wasn't missed but I'm not sure if it is constructive or relevant for the OP.
Personally if I wanted a generic sample character I'd stat him/her/it up. If someone is "optimizing" a character I would hope they are squeezing everything they can out of the character to show us what is possible. And if you take issue with some of the rules in getting to the end result you are able to pull them out of a build you find interesting otherwise so you can use it.
Want to make a viable dex based eidolon? Half-elf synthesist, with a flying, small, serpentine, fused eidolon form wielding two composite longbows (+4).
No go.
D20PFSRD wrote:
The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist.
Unless you like... reduce yourself before fusing, but then you have all sorts of duration issues.
Permanent reduce person is a little under 3,000 gp. I just tossed this out there because of all the other cheese I smell in here.
Permanently small human fused with a small serpentine eidolon
For a slightly more accurate build, with more gold and spare evo points to play with; lose 4 arms, 2 bows, and switch out multi for two-weapon fighting.
