I'm thinking there needs to be a thread for all the wacky, wonky and/or unusual or unanticipated armies that can be cobbled together with the Kingmaker Mass Combat rules.
Here's one I just put together to get things started:
Militia-Slaying Horde of Kittehs - CR 4
Gargantuan Army of 1,000 War-Trained Cats
hp: 12; DV 14; OM +4
Tactic: False Retreat
Speed: 3; Consumption 2; Morale +2
Special Ability: always treats opposing armies composed of NPC classed creatures as having been successfully ambushed.
Leader depends, although a(n) (Anti-)Paladin of Kittehs or a feline-obsessed Bard would be awfully appropriate. The more Charismatic, the better. :)
Preferred Strategy: executes false retreat on the ranged phase, taking advantage of their lack of ranged weapons. During the first melee phase, they shift either to an Aggressive strategy from Standard or immediately to a Reckless strategy depending upon their leader's capacity to rapidly signal the assault in combination with the false retreat.
- Aggressive Strategy, first melee phase = total OM +12 (damage bonus +3), DV 18
- Reckless Strategy, first melee phase = total OM +14 (damage bonus +6), DV 16
What other strangeness has any one else come up with?
One of my players mentioned in passing that the mass combat rules are lacking in mention of extraplanar armies. Naturally he figures that getting one would be as cheap as a "conventional" army.
Let's take a look at a Gargantuan Army of Hound Archons.
Army CR 10
OM +11 , DV 21 or 31 with mobility advantage (at-will greater teleport)
Speed: 2, ignoring difficult terrain or unlimited in areas where they have reliable descriptions for.
HP: 55
Special: ignores enemy DV bonuses from fortifications; mercenary (consumption costs can be paid in gp and BP); skips the ranged phase(s) of any battle in which they are not ambushed; at-will aid SLA grants 10 temporary hit points per melee phase
Morale; +1 (leader bonus is not accounted for)
Tactics: 2 of choice
Nasty business these hound archons!
Now, we've not gotten to the painful part: logistics. Calling upon such a heavenly host is a major undertaking. At the least you need 7th level clerics of the proper dispostion and with literal mountains of BP to spend. Assuming 10 prepared lesser planar ally spells per day, that's 15 weeks' time, 125 BP in offerings and a staggering 12,525 BP a week total consumption cost paid out - and you have just 5 days before your next consumption cost payout of 1,500 BP.
The most cost-effective pre-epic way involves a 14th level LG cleric in good standing with Heaven, the Scribe Scroll feat and 2 years' prep time and access to the planar fork required for plane shift.
Assuming all of these - which is not unreasonable - then the cleric in question needs to do the following:
- spend 282 or 141 days, 36 BP in scribing materials and proceed to scribe 250 caster level 9th plane shift scrolls.
- Collect 125 BP in offerings - this is the cost to raise this heavenly host.
- Be of sufficient standing or Diplomacize "da Boss" to cut a one-third discount on the cost of the host's services.
Once everything as outlined is done, the cleric plane shifts to Heaven, strikes a favorable deal with "da Boss" (including agreeing to let the cleric arrive directly at the archon's mustering point in Heaven) and gives the hound archon army a meticulous description of their mustering point on the Material plane. Then the scroll gets whipped out and within an hour the entire host has been whisked to the Material plane, ready to rumble.
"Da Boss" is not going to hand over a thousand crack troops for free, however. So we get to the consumption cost and why it is so important that the cleric's CL is at least 14th. Using lesser planar ally as the basis, the entire force normally has a weekly consumption cost of 1500 BP per (day x CL). At 14th+, this is bi-weekly (and the best that da Boss would let it get for this purpose). Getting a good deal reduces the weekly consumption cost to 500 a week.
I'm working on making an awakened tree and construct armies. Possibly growing a small Tendriculous army as well (though probably keeping it very small as they are hard to control). The army of Hound Archons is also on my short list, though I imagine it would be cheaper than listed. Just be sure you use them in a task that is "strongly aligned with the creature's ethos, it may halve or even waive the payment." Maybe in defense of towns (innocents) or some such.
Has anybody considered an army special ability that reduces consumption. An awakened tree army doesn't need to eat (or rather it doesn't need to eat alot, getting most of it's energy from the sun). Undead(zombies/skeletons) and constructs also don't require food or pay or clothes etc.... There are weapon costs and such, but those should be minimal when compared to the rest. Maybe something like Self Sufficient: Consumption is paid once a month, not 1/week.
we have a crazy druid that is pondering awakening a bunch of fungus leshys, maybe an army they would make.
These armies are reasonable CR 4 iron men and stone horse constructs under the command of the characters that crafted them. The horses provide the army's speed and mounted resources. The costs for these armies are largely "up front". I figure the equippage costs on improved armor and weapons are scaled to a Medium army and double with each size up from Medium. Consumption costs are on campaign and pretty minimal. They are not intelligent, but that's perhaps worth the trade-off for self-repairing and a subsequently VERY low maintenance cost.
Neutral Medium Army of Iron Men on Stone Horses (CR 4)
HP: 42 (20 +22 {5.5xCR}); OM +7 (4+1+2); DV 17 (10 +4 +1 +2); ranged capability
Speed: 12 (able to constantly move 4 per 8 hours so long as the army’s leader can handle it - perhaps a chest full of potions of lesser restoration ...)
Consumption: 4/month when on campaign, 0 otherwise; Morale – construct. I recommend adding consumption costs of +1/week or month if siege engines are included.
Tactics: Sniper Support
Resources: considered mounted, improved armor and weapons, ranged weapons.
A reasonable number of siege engines for a Medium army is 2 engines, 1 for a Small army. 4 maximum for a Large army, doubling with each size above Large (8 for Huge, 16 for Gargantuan, 32 for Colossal) or setting the limit at 1 for Small, 2 Medium, 4 Large, 6 Huge, 8 Gargantuan, 10 Colossal.
Special Abilities: construct, fast healing 5, self-repairing equipment
Cost to Raise: 210 BP (410 if “outsourced” {full price paid instead of half price for making these themselves}); Time to Raise: 800 days per 100 men with horses, assuming two characters with Craft Construct and Craft (sculptures) at the +10 to +15 bonus range. Costs and Time are per 100 iron men with their stone horses.
Neutral Large Army of Iron Men on Stone Horses (CR 6)
HP: 53; OM +9 (6+1+2); DV 19 (10 +6 +1 +2); ranged capability
Speed: 12; Consumption: 6/month when on campaign, 0 otherwise; Morale: construct
Tactics: Sniper Support
Resources: considered mounted; improved armor and weapons, ranged weapons
Special Abilities: construct, fast healing 5, self-repairing equipment
Cost to Raise: 420 BP (820 if “outsourced”); Time to Raise: 1,600 days.
Within most time frames of a Kingmaker campaign, a Large army of constructs like these are about as big as they will get I think.
Also, if the characters crafting them have ruling council roles, they lose 84 days a year to rulership duties plus any time deducted for holidays, adventuring and any R&R.
we have a crazy druid that is pondering awakening a bunch of fungus leshys, maybe an army they would make.
Oh wow ... yeah, that'd be interesting (and expensive), unless the druid initiates an awakened fungus leshy breeding program... :)
EDIT: All things considered, they would make a pretty formidable defensive army. Definitely no consumption cost unless you (a) equip them for some insane reason, or (b) ask them to leave the swamp they're protecting.
Several smaller leshy armies or the biggest one you can afford, however, would be a pretty formidable defense in "their" swamp. :)
I suggest once your druid hits 8th level (and has a suitable swamp available within the kingdom's borders) and assuming that druid is one of the ruling council that the kingdom find a way to fund the experiment.
Per fungus leshy - cost to raise: 0.3125 BP; time to raise: 2.5 days. In a given year it is reasonable enough to say that the druid can 'raise' 10 fungus leshys a month at a cost of 3.125 BP. (Tracking the fractionals is important over time IMO ...)
A Gargantuan army of fungus leshys (CR 8) takes 2500 days of 'down time' (over a decade) at a cost of 312.5 BP. I recommend that the druid recruit some assistants to accelerate the process. :)
A Large army (CR 4) of fungus leshys costs 62.5 BP and 500 days of down time (roughly 2 years and a month or two extra). Assistants are still a good idea. :)
Base CR 2. They ignore the difficult terrain of swamps and forests, come with ranged capability and have no consumption costs within their swamp (since they are 'housed and fed' there and would not necessarily require a paycheck unless the GM decides otherwise). They are already intelligent plants (albiet a bit dim), so they would not benefit/suffer from the plant special ability in the mass combat system. This also means that they can benefit from the strategy phases!
The verdant burst in the mass combat system has some nasty potential. Off the cuff - since it heals other leshys as leshys get whacked - I would say that it effectively increases the army's hit points by half.
Large Army of Fungus Leshy CR 4
hp 27 (18+50%); OM +4; DV 15 (14 +1 ad-hoc for their spores blinding effects); ranged capability.
Speed 1, ignores forest and swamp difficult terrain
Consumption 0 in swamps; 2/week outside of swamps
Tactics: none at first; Morale: +0 to +2, at the GMs discretion.
Cost to Raise: 63 BP, rounding up (125 if "outsourced"); Time to Raise: 500 days
I'm working on making an awakened tree and construct armies. Possibly growing a small Tendriculous army as well (though probably keeping it very small as they are hard to control). The army of Hound Archons is also on my short list, though I imagine it would be cheaper than listed. Just be sure you use them in a task that is "strongly aligned with the creature's ethos, it may halve or even waive the payment." Maybe in defense of towns (innocents) or some such.
Has anybody considered an army special ability that reduces consumption. An awakened tree army doesn't need to eat (or rather it doesn't need to eat alot, getting most of it's energy from the sun). Undead(zombies/skeletons) and constructs also don't require food or pay or clothes etc.... There are weapon costs and such, but those should be minimal when compared to the rest. Maybe something like Self Sufficient: Consumption is paid once a month, not 1/week.
I base the costs for the army of hound archons on lesser planar ally. Given the devastating capacity of this army against almost any other 'normal' army, they should cost an arm and a leg. Keep in mind that the example army was for a Gargantuan army of 1,000 hound archons. It is very easy to scale it down to a smaller CR and probably more importantly a smaller head count. A large army of 200 hound archons is 4 CR lower - and has 20% of the time to raise, cost to raise and consumption cost per week for their services.
In the circumstances of the 'as written' KM campaign, there is not a sufficiently malevolent opposing force to warrant acquiring an army of hound archons for free on the cosumption costs, especially not at the risk of permanent destruction. In one of the several spin-offs / post-Chapter 6 developments, this could be a different matter.
In determining the consumption costs of the army of hound archons, the 500 BP/week assumes a 14th level caster in good standing (shaving the cost down by a third), otherwise that cost is 750 BP/week plus the comparatively miniscule costs to raise that army.
EDIT: Armies of animated dead - skeletons and zombies - are possible, but they normally require very formidable handlers due to the limitations of animate dead unless - and this is actually reasonable - the GM is willing to permit integrating 'handlers' into the army of animated dead in addition to the actual leader of that army. (Not that it matters for animated dead other than knowing who is the 'steering wheel'.)
Animated dead would not have a consumption cost - only the costs and time to raise and equip them. A 5th level caster can control as many as 20 HD worth - 20 1 HD skeletons or zombies, which is not very many. Even if that caster has the Command Undead feat and adds another 5 such mini-onions, that is a total of 25 - insufficient to qualify as a Medium army even with 100 of them under the command of 4 or 5 casters.
Presumably, it is intended that multiple wranglers are subsumed within the body of animated dead comprising the army. I would presume that either fast zombies or skeletons are used (individually CR 1/3), so you need a Large army to qualify as CR 1.
All you need is 25 gp per animated dead and the combined number of castings you have available per day to determine the time and cost to raise the army. Equippage is probably minimal - call it double the cost unless you go with masterwork armor and weapons, in which case I recommend scaling these costs with the size of the army so equipped. Unless their handlers have Profession (engineer or soldier) and at least some degree of Knowledge (engineering), I recommend disallowing siege engines be attached to armies of the animated dead.
Armies of animated dead - because of the "handler" requirement - would not get to avoid consumption costs unless a way is devised to permit CC&C of vast numbers of them. You have to hire 5th level "handlers" to act as 'squad leaders'. Fortunately, this would mean a degree of self-repair capability from channeled negative energy bursts - and susceptibility that would otherwise be absent.
At best a Medium army could be fielded under most circumstances by a particular character with cohort and followers, but the trick is that an army has to be CR 1 - in the case of the animated dead, that means you need a Large army (200) of them.
A bit of a pickle to be sure.
Armies of animated dead - because of the "handler" requirement - would not get to avoid consumption costs unless a way is devised to permit CC&C of vast numbers of them. You have to hire 5th level "handlers" to act as 'squad leaders'. Fortunately, this would mean a degree of self-repair capability from channeled negative energy bursts - and susceptibility that would otherwise be absent.
At best a Medium army could be fielded under most circumstances by a particular character with cohort and followers, but the trick is that an army has to be CR 1 - in the case of the animated dead, that means you need a Large army (200) of them.
A bit of a pickle to be sure.
You'd only need a large army if you were raising humans... Finding yourself some sufficiently large creatures would give each individual a much higher CR.
I notice that Vordakai managed to get dread zombies as his minions. I don't see any way in the rules to create them but assuming you had a DM that would allow it, it would remove your need for squad leaders since they can control all other zombies within range.
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Aye, Undead "Squad Leaders" would work.
Skeletal Champions (as might be found in a certain Tomb), Zombie Masters, and other controller type critters could well be worth the investment.
Then, the army structure might look a lot like a Warhammer Vampire Lords army:
General is in charge
Commanders control the Squad Leaders
Squad Leaders lead the actual fighting units.
Fighting units = Skeletons/Zombies
Not sure if it'd be worth the time, money, and eventual crusades against you, but its doable.
Rust Monster Army
CR 3 as a Medium army.
Speed 3?
Special: rust Conventional armies engaged against a rust monster army during melee phases without the benefit of DV from fortifications lose half of their CR benefit to OM and DV after the first melee phase and all of this benefit after the second melee phase. Against armies comprised of creatures susceptible to rusting effects, such as iron golems, that army instead loses half of their hit points at the end of the first melee phase and is destroyed at the end of the second melee phase. Doing so is automatic against such forces.
Rust monster armies otherwise only inflict half damage to enemy armies with a successful Offense check, including any benefit derived from the aggressive and reckless strategies.
Morale: A rust monster army automatically gains the benefits of the savage brutality tactic and engages in a reckless strategy without needing a Morale check during all melee phases against enemy armies susceptible to rusting. Against enemy armies that are not susceptible to rusting, they have a +0 Morale and automatically engage in the Defensive strategy and Cautious tactic, seeking to break the engagement as soon as possible.
Cost and Time to Raise: GM's discretion, as this aberrations are not native to the lands that the Kingmaker AP is set in. Suggested cost for importing them in such numbers at 50 BP for a Medium army, 100 BP for a Large army and 250 BP for a Huge army. Copious useage of charm monster is probably going to be required unless characters of the appropriate archetypes are involved (ones able to tame and train aberrations).
Requirements: A Medium rust monster army, in addition to its normal weekly Consumption costs, requires the entire output of one of the kingdom's gold, iron or silver mines, causing the loss of the benefit that mine provides to the kingdom until such time as the rust monster army is destroyed. A Large rust monster army requires two such mines and a Huge army requires three mines. A rust monster army of greater than Huge size cannot be raised.
A rather formidable army, given a caster's tower assigned to the party members capable of casting the spell, would be an army of simulacrums. Several of them, one for each PC is even better.
This is normally a 7th level sorcerer/wizard spell, so it is probably spot on for when Your Heroes/Murderous Monarchs are entering WotRK.
Presuming that "only" 6 HD simulacrums are called for, that's a per-individual CR of 5 for "normal" characters. Each individual costs 0.75 BP and a day of time to create. Once done, however, they're utterly loyal (+4 starting Morale) and don't require a paycheck, so Consumption costs are reduced 25%. With a "typical ruling month" of 20 days' available time - assuming 1 created per day - you can create a Medium army in just 5 months (75 BP, CR 5), a Large army in 10 months (150 BP, CR 7) or a formidable Huge army in 25 months (375 BP, CR 9). I would highly recommend putting the kabosh on anything bigger than Huge and recommend each simulacrum army have their own watchtower, barracks or garrison as appropriate to that army's size. Equippage is extra as is the norm (unless you're OK with yourselves wearing padded armor, light wooden shields, a club, a sling and a pouch of bullets...)
To add icing on the cake go ahead and commission numerous rings of sustenance sufficient to alleviate the greatest part of your logistics burden (food, potable water and latrines) to further reduce your consumption costs by half to three-fourths as your GM deems fit. Adds 0.625 BP to the equippage cost per individual in the army. 62.5 BP per medium army, 125 BP per large army or 312.5 BP for a huge army. The consumption savings will pay this back in due course, unless you let them get annihilated.
simulacrum have one drawback - they cannot "self repair". Since you needed a caster's tower to make them, you need 24 hours, a caster's tower and have to spend 2.5 BP per army hp repaired for the medium army. 5 BP per for the large or 12.5 BP for the huge similarly repairs the bigger simu-armies. Once repaired, they're ready to return to duty!
Granted, they still need spell books (for those "copying" magus or wizard), but the cost to replicate your own is relatively small, even if you go with duplicate sets (1 at home base, 1 for field duty). Worth the expense and the small amount of prep time.
Adjust each "PC Xerox" army's special abilities and whatnot to reflect whom they're made from and you're set.
Never does an all-EK party look SO good as it does from this perespective. Any other classes able to cast simulacrum will do equally well! I wonder if any of the oracle's mysteries or clerical domains have simulacrum...
Has anyone made a werewolf army, you do run into them in kingmaker. Maybe charm one or ally with it to have it spread its lycanthropy among your army, then attack when the time is right.
Also there are Vegepygmy that can be created easy if you provide the bodies like sending condemned criminals to a cared for patch of russet mold.
Just some ideas :)
Has anyone made a werewolf army, you do run into them in kingmaker. Maybe charm one or ally with it to have it spread its lycanthropy among your army, then attack when the time is right.
Also there are Vegepygmy that can be created easy if you provide the bodies like sending condemned criminals to a cared for patch of russet mold.
Just some ideas :)
That's a GREAT idea, OmniChaos! One I shall shamelessly steal and attach "Captain Chaos" as its commander. ^_^
Vegypygmies are also a great army.
Another thing about Vegygmies is that they can also supply their own commanders sense 1 in every 20 turns out to be advanced and can even make a few reinforcements out in the field by taking down enemies himself (infecting them then putting them somewhere to "hatch" new vegygmies).
Feel free Turin we madmen must stick together, in memory of our fallen brother Halaster and our greatest champion Nethys. ;)
Another thing about Vegygmies is that they can also supply their own commanders sense 1 in every 20 turns out to be advanced and can even make a few reinforcements out in the field by taking down enemies himself (infecting them then putting them somewhere to "hatch" new vegygmies).
Feel free Turin we madmen must stick together, in memory of our fallen brother Halaster and our greatest champion Nethys. ;)
Just be sure to have flamethrowers around when you're done with the vegypygmies ... otherwise, they'll turn on you to expand the Russet Reich. ^_^
Oh I like these ideas. I'm planning on having a small platoon made up of ogres from
Gargantuan Enlarged Flying Plate Barded Owlbear with 24 gnomish spellcasters on mounted hardpoints wielding wands.
Gives new meaning to the term 'siege engine'.
Gargantuan Enlarged Flying Plate Barded Owlbear with 24 gnomish spellcasters on mounted hardpoints wielding wands.
Gives new meaning to the term 'siege engine'.
I hate to think of the BP costs. :)