Legitimate question, I promise.
I recently got into Golarion, just in time to buy the Inner Sea World Guide. Obsessive collector that I am, I'm now going back through the Campaign Setting stuff and trying to decide what's worth purchasing to add to my collection.
Specifically, for example, I'm not going to pick up the Gazeteer or the Campaign setting book, because I figure at this point that all the information in those is either repeated or replaced by the ISWG.
My question, though is about Gods and Magic. The product description suggests that there it's mostly about the gods themselves - but the religion section of the ISWG is pretty comprehensive. Is there anything in G&M that's not part of ISWG? Is it worth the money at this point, two years later, or do I have the important bits already?
(About me: Obsessive collector, yes, but not to the point of wasting money buying the same thing in different forms. However, I love the fluff parts of campaign settings even more than the crunch, so if there is extra fluff in G&M, that might be enough to convince me to drop the cash on it.)
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Well the inner sea primer kinda takes the place of the old Gaz, just a FYI.
As for the Gods and Magic book. A few things I would point out. in GaM each major god has a full 2 pages with art, while the ISWG only has a half page for each. There is also more information on other gods, not a lot though, though their is a picture of many of their holy symbols. Plus there is a number of pages of spells and magic items not in the ISWG.
The extra info on the gods is mostly fluff and very little crunch, since you said fluff mattered. Thought I would point that out.
My question, though is about Gods and Magic. The product description suggests that there it's mostly about the gods themselves - but the religion section of the ISWG is pretty comprehensive. Is there anything in G&M that's not part of ISWG? Is it worth the money at this point, two years later, or do I have the important bits already?
ISWG = 1/2 page for each of the major deities, plus 8 pages total on various demigods, dead gods, demon lords, worshipable angels, and fey cult.
GaM: 4 pages for each of the major deities, 10 pages total on dwarf gods, elf gods, halfling gods, giant gods, gnome gods, goblin hero-gods, halfling gods, dead gods, and other cults, plus 10 pages on various low-level magic items for each of the major deities and some of the minor ones.
Creative Director
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Gods & Magic has a LOT more inforamtion about the deities than the Inner Sea World Guide does. Each deity has more than 3 times the information than they do in the ISWG in Gods & Magic, and each deity has an illustration as well. But there's more than that in Gods & Magic—there are details on racial pantheons, obscure deities, and other faiths not even mentioned in the Inner Sea World Guide, and there's also a pretty sizable selection of magic items associated with the deities.
If you're interested in the gods of Golarion, it's indispensable, I would say. Unless you happen to own every 2nd and 5th Adventure Path, in which case you have even more info about the deities, of course...
Its so good my daughter keeps stealing it from my collection.
Oh, and she calls Pharasma the Chair God... hmmmm
hahaha.... chair domain.
hahaha.... chair domain.Its so good my daughter keeps stealing it from my collection.
Oh, and she calls Pharasma the Chair God... hmmmm
Her avatar/herald? Chairface Chippendale!
@Feegle: I am much like you in that I just got into Golarion and going back to find all the books I missed(down to just three more)...I even picked up the Gazeteer and the Campaign setting book...mostly because I startted a couple of months before the ISWG came out...and there are tidbits of info in those not find in the ISWG...though you could probably skip on them...I am very much the completeist.
As to the Gods & Magic book I just managed to pick it up just two weeks ago....and I am still reading it. It has some very great fluff that you can't find out about the gods anywhere else. Well maybe in the APs...I don't have those yet waiting for the steady income of a pay check before I go there.
Anyway I would say yes you should pick this book up...and the only ones I think is a maybe due to the ISWG book are the two you already mentioned.
Okay, so I read everything that you folks posted, very nicely, in response to my question with a purposely snarky thread title. Thanks for not being snarky in return. Anyway, I took it in, but still wasn't completely sold on it. But I figured, meh, what's $20 in the grand scheme of things, so I just picked it up from my FLGS.
Wow.
You were totally not kidding - the ISWG doesn't really do justice to the deities in anywhere near the same way as Gods & Magic, and I am a fool for ever doubting the community here at the forums. I loooooove this book. One of my favourite gaming books of all time was the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms deities book - Faiths and Avatars, I think it might have been called? - and this one puts that to shame, in about a quarter of the number of pages. Awesome, awesome, awesome.
So, I'm mostly posting here for two reasons:
#1: If anyone else in the future has the same question that I did, the answer is yes, yes, yes Gods & Magic is TOTALLY worth it.
#2: Everyone needs to know not to doubt the opinions and/or advice of this community. If you ask them a question, (and manage to get a response that doesn't turn into a heated discussion), then take the advice you get to heart. If my experience is anything to go by, you'll get honest and useful advice.
Thanks again!
~Feegs
Glad we could give you good advice.
Though a note on the FR if you can get your hands on the three 2nd ed deity books....those will are even better than the Golarion gods books...though it is close.
You were totally not kidding - the ISWG doesn't really do justice to the deities in anywhere near the same way as Gods & Magic, and I am a fool for ever doubting the community here at the forums. I loooooove this book. One of my favourite gaming books of all time was the 3rd edition Forgotten Realms deities book - Faiths and Avatars, I think it might have been called? - and this one puts that to shame, in about a quarter of the number of pages. Awesome, awesome, awesome.
The 3e FR gods book was Faiths & Pantheons, which is really a very, very poor cousin to the 2e trilogy of Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities. The latter three are among my favorite gaming products ever. Aside maybe a single column of each entry, it was almost always all about the followers and the churches too.
Both editions have what amounts to stats for the gods (Technically just avatars in the 2e books, but on a power level where the difference is pretty academic. Sixty levels, roughly what 3e deities were geared towards, was typical.) but the 2e books couple it with ludicrously wonderful details about worshipers and clergy, affiliated orders, daily activities, major centers of worship, typical omens and signs, and then capped it off with at least one or two deity-specific spells and what amounted to a custom priest class for each god (which could often be simulated with multiclassing or a prestige class in 3e for much better balance). I don't think any deity had less than three pages of information, including several who were quite dead but got the stuff anyway. The non-human and non-mainstream human pantheons even had multi-page spreads sketching their shared myths and common statuses, as all were far more unified than the regular FR pantheon.
The gaming group I'm with uses PFRPG set in Forgotten Realms (pre 4th-Ed). Our gamemaster had picked up Gods and Magic to see if it would help in converting FR deities to PF, but he complained the G&M gods were too generic, had few if any interesting personality quirks, and were overall unhelpful for his purpose. He was also extremely unhappy that all but one of the demi-human gods were absent from the book.
It's not so much that they were absent...it's that the major gods are the gods of all races. Some may be more highly regarded by certain races..Torag for dwarves and Calistria for elves..but thier portfolios are all encompassing. One does not have a God of Beauty for every race...the Goddess of Beauty (Shelyn) represents all races. Elves may make her more elflike in representations, and halflings may make her more halflike :), but she is the singular Goddess of Beauty, Arts, and Love.
For me, this was much easier to feel than the many overlapping deities of FR. Always seemed like too many cooks in the kitchen. And as for personality quirks go, gosh, once again, for me there were ooodles. The first that comes to mind is Cayden Cailean. I cannot but help to smile when thinking about this God. His precepts are posted like rules in a bar. His most trusted friend, a working girl. He became a god on a bet. And was too drunk to remember.
Or maybe you want some more vile quirks, how about Zon-Kuthon, after eons of torture and brutalization to his dear ol' dad, he made the guy his herald. I also find ZK a bit more believable than Loviatar's writeup.
Ah well, we all see different things, but for those that enjoy Golarion, I think this book is a great investment.
Greg
I know the question has been answered / you bought the book and liked it, but I wanted to chime in and say that G&M ist probably my favourite PF Setting book. Its also very useful for any conceivable campaign in Golarion.
P.S.
"The Great Beyond" ist also totally asewome. I usually take three setting books for quick reference to my sessions: Gazetter, G&M, The Great BEyond.