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I have a question on evasion in enclosed spaces. We had an encounter in the closing of COT last night Ecardian was in a 10 by 10' room and my character cast a Flame Strike which has a 10x10 area of effect so Ecardian had no room to evade w/o exiting the room and provoking AoO form myself and the Magus. He Save out and took no damge.
If he has no room to evade why does he get a saving throw to take no damage?
Why does anyone get a saving throw in that instant?
The answer is: Because otherwise, spells like fireball would become too powerful. They're balanced with saving throws in mind.
Even in a barren room, you can drop flat or exploit a "weak area" in the spell to avoid the worst of the spell. Rogues and other characters with evasions are so good at that that they can avoid damage entirely.
Note that if you are positioned to attack someone who would move out of a 10x10' room and you attack a 10' RADIUS flame strike into the room, chances are you are within the 20' diameter column yourself.
Also note that if we're going with absolute realism, you couldn't have used flame strike, as it is a column of divine flame 40' high. I doubt 10x10' rooms have 40' ceilings.
Also note that reflex saves do not involve movement (in the sense that you end up in a different square), so the 10x10 room really has no bearing. You make a reflex save and remain in your space.
After all, you could have countless other situations where your movement would be insufficient to get you out of harm's way, like lopping a fireball into an alley where an enemy with a speed of 15' stands at the far side, in a dead end, and you position the 40' diameter fireball to get as much alley into the area as possible.
One thing I want to add: What's good for the goose....
Do you really want to create a precedent where confined spaces rob you of reflex saves? Next time, it might be your character stuck in a room with several evokers going to town with blast magic.
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Do you really want to create a precedent where confined spaces rob you of reflex saves?
Yes, and we do.
Though a 10x10 blast in a 10x10 room is, most of the time, the limit of acceptable.
A 10x10 blast in an area less than 10x10, for us, typically means no reflex save, unless there is some creative use of props/cover.
Gives the party something to think about.
It makes life.. interesting....
Works for us!
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I view Evasion as a bit of skill and more reflective of just being "lucky." Sometimes there isn't a perfect save or category to reflect what's going on, but to me, Evasion is for those characters who you just shake your head at when they walk out of an impossible situation (which is what heroes do).
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It's because everyone with evasion carry batmans fireproof cloak. They dramatically wrap it around themselves and resuce children/puppies with it.
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Something also to consider is that just because its a '10x10' blast doesn't mean everything has to fit into literal squares. Just visually I always picture flame strike as more of a cylinder, rather than following the exact lines of the room perhaps there was just enough space in the corner for him to cram himself back into.
As mentioned above, everything in the game is a simplification.
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I have a question on evasion in enclosed spaces. We had an encounter in the closing of COT last night Ecardian was in a 10 by 10' room and my character cast a Flame Strike which has a 10x10 area of effect so Ecardian had no room to evade w/o exiting the room and provoking AoO form myself and the Magus. He Save out and took no damge.
If he has no room to evade why does he get a saving throw to take no damage?
Minor correction, but Flame Strike covers an area of 12 squares total
Please see the example area for a 10' radius spell in the PRD linked here
But for evasion, the character may just be extraordinarily lucky. Something amazing happened and they where missed by all the holy fire that dropped down from the ceiling into that room.
As someone else said, the size of the Flame Strike means that there was a good chance that the magus was also still within the range of the spell.
They dramatically wrap it around themselves and resuce children/puppies with it.
I'm not sure this is right. Some people like their children/puppies well done.
But I think those guys just get the variant cloak with the YCP (youngster cooking pouch).
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Got a question for all of you on spell hights like flame strike why would flame strike not deal damage to the stone room as it dealt damage to the target in the room. I would think that a falme strike would punch a hole in the celing of the room.
Hapler, the Hell Knight in question was trying to collect Ecardians Soul for Asmodeus so he could gain the Findish Template so he did not really care a great deal if the Magus got caught up in the Flame Strike and got toasted to Death. Besides we had a scroll of Reserrection that we had in an handy haversack so he was safe as far as the Hellknight was concerned. The Hellkinght Is Lawful Evil and all and was on a holy/unholy mission from his god.
if you're not helpless you get evasion.
and even if you are helpless you get a save.
you can be tied-up, spread eagle,ton the floor, wearing full plate stuffed with TNT and you still get a save by RAW
Actually no. Being tied-up counts as helpless.