Damn you, lack of pathos! Or is that ethos? I always get them confused.Meh.
R Lee Ermey says "A."random dude on internet who wasn't a Marine Drill Instructor AND costarred with Vincent D'onofrio in Full Metal Jacket says "B."
Absolutely nothing I have to prove here.
I'm just dedicated to the truth.
It doesn't hurt my pride that Japanese people's ancestors figured out how to make way better swords than my ancestors, who also didn't come up with trigonometry. All they did was sack Lindisfarne, and that's plenty to be proud of there.
Marines use swords? I assumed US were more technologically advanced :Dwell you can't have cruise missiles at a wedding, now can you.
Why not D: ?
More seriously, I guess they don't use them in combat.
Marines use swords? I assumed US were more technologically advanced :Dwell you can't have cruise missiles at a wedding, now can you.Why not D: ?
More seriously, I guess they don't use them in combat.
No. The biggest blades modern marines would use are fighting knives. Special forces types use them for taking out sentries silently, and stuff like that.
Marines use swords? I assumed US were more technologically advanced :Dwell you can't have cruise missiles at a wedding, now can you.Why not D: ?
More seriously, I guess they don't use them in combat.
"You want that gun, don't you Zed?"
"Step aside, Butch....."
Anybody know is there any good paladin moral dilemma threads?
Anybody know is there any good paladin moral dilemma threads?
Do you want to add marines there too?
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WTB TV Prog:
All yo momma's iron you can carry.
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Both teams will fight in eleven days.
Both teams can choose to equip themselves either katanas or broadswords (longswords/hamswords - I care not!).
Both teams may craft as much armour from their iron supplies as they wish.
FIGHT!
1 Epic Beard Man with a katana. All you need.
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1 Epic Beard Man with a katana. All you need.
With an epic beard even the mighty katana is optional!
and a blue t-shirt that sez....
"I AM a wakizashi."
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Actualy, a longsword made of damascus steel will be on par if not better then a katana. The only reason Japanese invented the folding steel technique was to offset the crapiness of their iron which was insane. They had to make at least forty layers for the weapon to be usable. Then some nutcases went and decided to see how many times could they fold steel. Katana is just a sword. A work of art nowdays, but just a sword like any other.
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I kinda' liked the katana Vs longsword video... it implies that if a samurai faced a knight in combat, the samurai would have a whole foot of steel through his chest before he even got within his own weapon's reach... ;)
True, i trained two-handed sword fighting...four and a half feet of weapon. We had a match against a kendo school. We kicked their asses. Perfect score. 20:0 in victories? Why, well, reach and the fact they expected us to be much slower...two handed fighter is not slow. NONO.
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katana pwns long sword.
I see your untrained TV host swinging cheap production swords away and raise you a test of two sword made by two expert swordsmith being used by actual expert swordsmen.
katana pwns long sword.I see your untrained TV host swinging cheap production swords away and raise you a test of two sword made by two expert swordsmith being used by actual expert swordsmen.
Hey, what's a "malformed video id?" Sounds sciency to me, so you must win.
and.....why would they fight using expert swordsmiths? Sounds unwieldy.
fixed...I was missing a character on my cut and paste
Dude. R Lee Ermey would pwn both of those long hairs with a damn rifle cleaning kit.
Experts.....pfft!
Is there actually any problem with using the bastard sword stats? You can even use it as a (two-handed) martial weapon if you are too stingy for the feat. The great scimitar (or however the 1d8 18-20x2 weapon in sandstorm was called) iirc you needed to blow a feat anyway.
And that relates to sword use how?fixed...I was missing a character on my cut and paste
Dude. R Lee Ermey would pwn both of those long hairs with a damn rifle cleaning kit.
Experts.....pfft!
Same damn way Musashi wupped all those dudes with a damn boat oar: last man standing wins. First law of the damn jungle.
who can cut a pea pod the long way.
tomato.....pfft.....I could do that, and I ain't no sword expert.
Is there actually any problem with using the bastard sword stats? You can even use it as a (two-handed) martial weapon if you are too stingy for the feat. The great scimitar (or however the 1d8 18-20x2 weapon in sandstorm was called) iirc you needed to blow a feat anyway.
meh; not really.
Just....bag of rocks....gold paint......yknow.
And that relates to sword use how?fixed...I was missing a character on my cut and paste
Dude. R Lee Ermey would pwn both of those long hairs with a damn rifle cleaning kit.
Experts.....pfft!Same damn way Musashi wupped all those dudes with a damn boat oar: last man standing wins. First law of the damn jungle.
who can cut a pea pod the long way.
tomato.....pfft.....I could do that, and I ain't no sword expert.
I'm sure you know the tomato was just demonstrating how sharp the respective swords were. Expertise comes in the bamboo cuts, being able to get the proper torque into the cuts.
The real demonstration is the sword-cutting, which is historically accurate. You don't cut other swords with a katana.
===Aelryinth
The real demonstration is the sword-cutting, which is historically accurate. You don't cut other swords with a katana.
===Aelryinth
Technically speaking, I'm pretty sure you weren't supposed to cut swords with other swords at any rate. Sure, presuming an inferiority of metal and/or craftwork, it was possible - but it was quite a gamble, and likely to ruin a sword sooner than later. Swords were meant to cut flesh.
And as for expertise, for all it's worth I'd say the best-quality experts in either weapon are long, long dead by now. Pity, I guess - but that's how it is in the 21st century. As it is, I'd say go with whatever goes in your game - for now, I'd say 1d10 19-20x2 should work well enough for any games I'm in, but if the players really want to go for 1d8 18-20x2, I might just be amenable to the right offer :D .
katana pwns long sword.I see your untrained TV host swinging cheap production swords away and raise you a test of two sword made by two expert swordsmith being used by actual expert swordsmen.
Wow - at 3:25 of that video, the longsword guy uses a reverse cut to slice through the mat. That's very impressive! Great video :-)
Personally, when Jade Regent and ultimate combat hit, I will probably use the weapon statistics for an Aldori Duelling sword, because it behaves at Katana's do in fiction, be it old ronin movies, anima, modern comics or films. Also, the description and art for these weapons is pretty to a katana like.
The behaviour of the real world weapon, and real world arms really are a secondary concern. But if it were, we certainly wouldn't be using bastard sword stats(similar yes, but not identical)
Giving a Katana different stats from a bastard sword is worth while because a Katana is not a bastard sword. They might be very similar, but not identical, just as a scimitar and a longsword are very similar but not identical weapons. Having separate stats allows a choice about weapon use to have meaning. Forget which weapons better, leave your gaming related orientaphobia at the door, and just accept that sometimes, a long, beautifully crafted and gently curving sword is just what the doctor ordered to provide a dollop of awesome ...
Atleast, thats my 2 pence.
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tomato.....pfft.....I could do that, and I ain't no sword expert.
I doubt it. A ripe tomate is actually quite hard to cut with a sword. The fact that you think it's no big deal pretty much proves to me you have no idea about swords.
Oh and there is a amateur guy using a $200 dollar windlass euro sword doing the pea cut. These are more along the lines of just showmanship...the actual use of the sword was on the bamboo cored tatami. You will not that both swordmen had no issued and both were quite fast and fluid.
Meh.
R Lee Ermey says "A."random dude on internet who wasn't a Marine Drill Instructor AND costarred with Vincent D'onofrio in Full Metal Jacket says "B."
Absolutely nothing I have to prove here.
No, R Lee Ermey said "A" because some random dude who wasn't a Marine Drill Instructor wrote the script telling him what to say.
And those tests were flawed. Take the final one on the metal armor. The longsword was swung in such a way as to impact on of the reinforced metal risged on the armor. The katana wasn't. The test on the ice was flawed. THe block the katana hit already had a large notch out of it (you can see it shortly before he actually hits it. It rests in that notch briefly.) The block of the longsword has no such visable notch. (I believe that the longsword test was done first, and that produced the notch that is seen in the katana test. The longsword damaged and weakened the ice that the katana finally broke.) And the test against the leather armor, the katana is swung overhand producing a stronger blow than the longsword swung horizontally.
Really, the only fair test they showed was cutting the cabbage.
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Is there actually any problem with using the bastard sword stats? You can even use it as a (two-handed) martial weapon if you are too stingy for the feat. The great scimitar (or however the 1d8 18-20x2 weapon in sandstorm was called) iirc you needed to blow a feat anyway.
I'm saying you use the 1d8, 18-20/x2 stats for damage, but it's otherwise identical to a Bastard Sword as far as prerequisites for use are concerned (two-handed martial, 1-handed exotic).
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Personally, when Jade Regent and ultimate combat hit, I will probably use the weapon statistics for an Aldori Duelling sword, because it behaves at Katana's do in fiction, be it old ronin movies, anima, modern comics or films. Also, the description and art for these weapons is pretty to a katana like.
The behaviour of the real world weapon, and real world arms really are a secondary concern. But if it were, we certainly wouldn't be using bastard sword stats(similar yes, but not identical)
Giving a Katana different stats from a bastard sword is worth while because a Katana is not a bastard sword. They might be very similar, but not identical, just as a scimitar and a longsword are very similar but not identical weapons. Having separate stats allows a choice about weapon use to have meaning. Forget which weapons better, leave your gaming related orientaphobia at the door, and just accept that sometimes, a long, beautifully crafted and gently curving sword is just what the doctor ordered to provide a dollop of awesome ...
Atleast, thats my 2 pence.
And this is why there is the orientphobia...yeah what you suggest is not big deal (using the aldori dueling sword)...but all the rest...umm no thanks.
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Technically speaking, I'm pretty sure you weren't supposed to cut swords with other swords at any rate. Sure, presuming an inferiority of metal and/or craftwork, it was possible - but it was quite a gamble, and likely to ruin a sword sooner than later. Swords were meant to cut flesh.
Like the steel in Japan. :P
I'm saying you use the 1d8, 18-20/x2 stats for damage, but it's otherwise identical to a Bastard Sword as far as prerequisites for use are concerned (two-handed martial, 1-handed exotic).
I could roll with that if the gang really asked for it, I guess. The thing is, why should I dig Sandstorm for reference if the bastard sword is already staring at me from the core book? It's still a pretty decent statline.
@ Kthulhu - I think the poor quality of Japanese metal might be overstated at times. It might not have been the best there was, is, and will be, but I'd say their good quality swords didn't break like some half-baked crap. Now, as far as I know, in the warring states era they did produce a lot of said crap as well (as did many European forges when they needed to produce swords en masse for less discriminating customers), but overall I'd reserve judgement on overall quality just yet. /shrug.
I'd say 1d12, crit 19-20/x4.
I'd say 1d12, crit 19-20/x4.
nice derail - but you didn't answer me - why no missiles at weddings?
why? why?
True, i trained two-handed sword fighting...four and a half feet of weapon. We had a match against a kendo school. We kicked their asses. Perfect score. 20:0 in victories? Why, well, reach and the fact they expected us to be much slower...two handed fighter is not slow. NONO.
I had a sparring match with a friend who used a practice medieval longsword (aka a D&D bastard sword) - and I won, every time and using a cut-down boken to represent a ninjato, rather than a katana.
We did agree, though, that armoured combat would give him the advantage, the katana or ninjato would have more problems penetrating European armour than the longsword would have penetrating contemporary period Japanese armour.
The katana was a very fine weapon, and IMHO better overall than the European contemporary blades against an un-armoured opponent - but European armour was better than Japanese, and a European sword was more likely to penetrate European armour.
Is being finesseable an advantage to a weapon? Not really, if you consider the loss in damage the wielder will suffer without Strength as their main stat.
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The katana was a very fine weapon, and IMHO better overall than the European contemporary blades against an un-armoured opponent...
Of course, against an unarmoured opponent how good your blade is, is a bit of a moot point... Real life people don't have Hit Points... ;)
Ultimate Combat is due to have some armour as DR stuff in it, right? Any news if there'll be related rules on how armour-piercing certain weapons are (or aren't... Falcata... I'm looking at you...)?
I'd say 1d12, crit 19-20/x4.nice derail - but you didn't answer me - why no missiles at weddings?
why? why?
It's traditional.
I'd say 1d12, crit 19-20/x4.
No, please stop it. Katana's are not super weapons that can cut tanks in half. Just because you see it in anime does not mean it has to do that in game. It is just a fancy bastard sword which is still pretty good. And for the record, in-game weapons do not have to reflect their historical counter part. It's a fantasy game, where weapons are in theory statted for balance. Druids,wizards, and monks are not historically accurate, so why do people insist on weapons being accurate?
It's traditional.I'd say 1d12, crit 19-20/x4.nice derail - but you didn't answer me - why no missiles at weddings?
why? why?
Really? In Europe we have different traditions. Good to know, the day I will be invited to an american wedding, I will not make a poor showing.
Thanks!
I'd say 1d12, crit 19-20/x4.No, please stop it. Katana's are not super weapons that can cut tanks in half. Just because you see it in anime does not mean it has to do that in game. It is just a fancy bastard sword which is still pretty good. And for the record, in-game weapons do not have to reflect their historical counter part. It's a fantasy game, where weapons are in theory statted for balance. Druids,wizards, and monks are not historically accurate, so why do people insist on weapons being accurate?
I don't watch anime, dude. Please. pfft
I'd say 1d12, crit 19-20/x4.No, please stop it. Katana's are not super weapons that can cut tanks in half. Just because you see it in anime does not mean it has to do that in game. It is just a fancy bastard sword which is still pretty good. And for the record, in-game weapons do not have to reflect their historical counter part. It's a fantasy game, where weapons are in theory statted for balance. Druids,wizards, and monks are not historically accurate, so why do people insist on weapons being accurate?
Because we can more easily relate to weapons in some way while it's harder to say how a fireball or magic missile actually works. ;)
Regardless, katana's aren't/shouldn't be some super weapon that is just better than every other weapon. It is not special. It is another sword that in Pathfinder/3.5 does the same things a bastard sword does.
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I could roll with that if the gang really asked for it, I guess. The thing is, why should I dig Sandstorm for reference if the bastard sword is already staring at me from the core book? It's still a pretty decent statline.
I'm not referencing Sandstorm. Nor did I even realize that book existed before Google'ing it after you mentioned it.
I'm just following the standard set by the existing weapons. Curvy swords reduce the damage die by 1 size, and increase the crit range by 1 step. We do it for Kukri/Shortsword, Scimitar/Longsword, Falchion/Greatsword, and it makes sense to do it for Katana/Bastard Sword. It's why we don't just use the same stats for a Longsword as we do a Scimitar, despite the fundamental similarity.
Reading this thread, I'm not even sure why the USMC's traditional swords were brought up. They're based on a shamshir design from the middle east, not the Katana from the far east.
Also, longswords and scimitars really aren't that similar, at least in how they were used. Scimitars are primarily for slashing while longswords were primarily for piercing armor. They could both do both, but were specialized differently.
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I had a sparring match with a friend who used a practice medieval longsword (aka a D&D bastard sword) - and I won, every time and using a cut-down boken to represent a ninjato, rather than a katana.
Well, that is because your friend used a bastard sword...or hand-and-a-half sword. Bastard sword is around 3 and a half feet long...a whole foot shorter then a real two hander. Trust me, unless you have friekishly long arms, you can't reach me with a katana if i stab you in the chest, unless you do it lurz style.