It's not in the PHB or Adventurers Armory. Also not in Luven Lightfingers.
Which blade would come close to mechanics of the Katana?
HAHA!
By the official rules, a katana is nothing more then a curved variant bastard sword, which reasonably reflects it's stats.
Many people advocate for it as a d8, 18-20/x2 crit weapon, i.e. a stepped up scimitar (or one-handed falchion). Bastard sword stats are probably a better option, however.
==Aelryinth
If you do want to keep it in the one-handed range, you may want to base it on the Aldori dueling sword. 19-20 Crit Range, 1d8. Usable as a longsword, but if you have Exotic Weapon Proficiency in the weapon, you can use Weapon Finesse with it.
Intentional troll thread trolls intentionally?
Intentional troll thread trolls intentionally?
I'm not trying to troll. I was genuinely interested in the opinion of others as per the Katana.
Unoffically offically, it's a bastard sword. That is to say it was offically rulled a bastard sword in 3.5. Since pathfinder unoffically supports anything in 3.5 they don't over-ride, it is unoffically offically a bastard sword.
If I am not mistaken they will have stats for a katana in UC, so the developers might have a fair idea of katana stats
Unoffically offically, it's a bastard sword. That is to say it was offically rulled a bastard sword in 3.5. Since pathfinder unoffically supports anything in 3.5 they don't over-ride, it is unoffically offically a bastard sword.If I am not mistaken they will have stats for a katana in UC, so the developers might have a fair idea of katana stats
Nope.
Take a bastard sword or Aldori dueling sword, add piercing as a damage type and you're good to go IMO.
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By the official rules, a katana is nothing more then a curved variant bastard sword, which reasonably reflects it's stats.
Many people advocate for it as a d8, 18-20/x2 crit weapon, i.e. a stepped up scimitar (or one-handed falchion). Bastard sword stats are probably a better option, however.
If it were up to me...
Katana: 50gp, d8 (other stats per longsword except Type P or S)
katana, daito: 70gp, d10 (other stats per bastard sword except Type P or S)
Katanas are purposefully designed with a hilt permitting the use of a two hand grip (most European longswords were not so designed, although the game system does not penalize their two-hand usage). Because of this long hilt, a person wielding in one hand a katana which is one size too small for him does not suffer the usual penalty to attack with a wrong-sized weapon (he does suffer the penalty if he uses it in both hands).
What're the stands on a blade made of Damascus or Wootz steel?
Because if those are just masterwork weapons, I see no reason why a katana has to be different.
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You are all wrong.
Do you actually know anything about katanas?
I doubt so.
So let me tell you. Katans are blades of gods. They are crafted, once in a century, atop an impossibly high mountain, by an ageless, blind weaponsmith who pours his immortal magic into making a perfect sword. A sword that sends meteors raining from the sky every time it hits. A sword that can cut things apart without even making a swing. A sword that reflects laser beams, beholder eye rays and your wife's "the stare".
So, mwk bastard sword it is.
stuff
Was all that serious?
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My big problem with useing Bastard Sword stats for a Katana. I know how to use both of them. The bastard sword is more of a brute force weapon. The katana is more of a strike open spot in armor weapon. The bastard sword is used as a hacking weapon to breach armor. The katana is not made to breach metal armor. The katana is more like a scimitar in use then a bastard sword. In that they are cuting weapons not hacking weapons. If you where to use a scimitar or katana and tryed fighting some one with heavy armor. You will find your self in a world of hurt. They are not made to penatrate that type of armor.
In the east metal was hard to come buy and was low quality. In the west It was higher quality and easyer to come by. So what you find is.
East: Made weapons to over come the type of armor they hade.
West: Made armor to over come the type of weapon they hade.
So in the east you see more spelized weapons and only a few types of armor.
In the West you see more spelized armor and only a few types of weapons.
/facepalm
I can't believe this conversation could have possibly come up again.
/extrafacepalm @ the urban warrior swordmasters. Unintentional/unconscious LARPing is 'serius bidniz' evidently.
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Thats exatly what I expected to hapen. Now the Tetsubo the weapon samurai used for armor sharted the viking shield with one swing. If any one tryed to use a stright swing aganst armor with a katana or scimitar you get the same results. The bastard sword on the other hand wold not have penetrated the chain. It wold have left a large impresson where the weight of the blade hade acted like a blunt weapon and cracked the ribs accross the torso. Thats the difrence between a hacking weapon and a cutting weapon. Now if you change to padded type armor the same effect but the katana leaves the wound and bastard sword did little damage. It's more about understanding the limitations of the weapons and armor. And how they react to each other. Thats why I feal the blanket use of katana = Basterd Sword is not very good.
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stuffWas all that serious?
No.
If serious, should have been something like 12-20/x7.
I'd take the stats of a falchion and if you need the "asian stuff rulez" fluff (with all it's myths about awesome ninjas and the honor of bushido hardly any real world samurai really cared to much about), make it mw
I'm not to sure why D&D prefers to take the bastard sword - is the musashi two weapon style the default style for designers? In KotoR (which is based on 3.5), making lightsabers one handed is the reason why every melee based jedi has a double lightsaber or two lightsabers in contrary to all the movies and books
So, now for the fun part:
(most European longswords were not so designed, although the game system does not penalize their two-hand usage)
Actually they were - the term "longsword" originally stood for all two handed swords and D&D is using the term wrong, but the spirit of your post 's right, except for the rarely used bastard sword, every sword intended for one handed use had a short hilt
(while the blade of a katana is far to light to swing it effectively one handed, I have no idea how musashi did it - and should anyone point at fencing weapons, that's the point - they use their point)
So let me tell you. Katans are blades of gods. They are crafted, once in a century, atop an impossibly high mountain, by an ageless, blind weaponsmith who pours his immortal magic into making a perfect sword. A sword that sends meteors raining from the sky every time it hits. A sword that can cut things apart without even making a swing. A sword that reflects laser beams, beholder eye rays and your wife's "the stare".
Dude, you're underestimating katanas. Said mountain would burst from the presence of the sword alone. Azatoth himself forges them in the dark void to the tunes of mindless flute players and Chuck Norris has to give permission first (every thread about katanas needs Chuck Norris)
stuffWas all that serious?
Of course not. He said he bought a katana, which he can not do since civilists are not allowed to own tactical weapons. One could argue about thermonuclear warheads but katanas? No way.
stuffWas all that serious?No.
If serious, should have been something like 12-20/x7.
Ah...true...and the damage dice were a tad low....
stuffWas all that serious?No.
If serious, should have been something like 12-20/x7.
Ah...true...and the damage dice were a tad low....
You are right. I feel so silly. 8d10. There you go.
If you do want to keep it in the one-handed range, you may want to base it on the Aldori dueling sword. 19-20 Crit Range, 1d8. Usable as a longsword, but if you have Exotic Weapon Proficiency in the weapon, you can use Weapon Finesse with it.
This is what we are doing in one of my games.
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I'm a big fan of the 1d8, 18-20/x2 Katana, simply because it's within an established realm of power as far as weapon mechanics are concerned, curved blades tend to have a higher crit range, but lower damage by the book (Kukri-Shortsword, Scimitar-Longsword, Falchion-Greatsword, Elven Curve Blade-... any Exotic two-hander?), and it doesn't completely shut out the usefulness of the bastard sword.
Mostly, it's different, which is why I like it. I'd rather have a balanced new option than a reflavoring that basically does nothing.
I'm a big fan of the 1d8, 18-20/x2 Katana, simply because it's within an established realm of power as far as weapon mechanics are concerned, curved blades tend to have a higher crit range, but lower damage by the book (Kukri-Shortsword, Scimitar-Longsword, Falchion-Greatsword, Elven Curve Blade-... any Exotic two-hander?), and it doesn't completely shut out the usefulness of the bastard sword.
Mostly, it's different, which is why I like it. I'd rather have a balanced new option than a reflavoring that basically does nothing.
That's a possibility that plays into the mythical aspect of katanas.
Another suggestion was treating it as a falchion. Maybe the "exotic" aspect could be using it one-handed, like with a bastard sword. I don't see katanas as finesse weapons. They do a fine job with a mighty swing (which fits typical movie tropes).
If we're looking for historical accuracy, we'd have to rewrite a LOT of weapons. Longswords and even greatswords were piercers as well as slashers. The swords used in Europe, the Middle East and the East were effective for their own regions, and the armor types that were in use at the time. Trying to be really accurate about it won't work, since adventuring bypasses real history, anyway.
They used the bastard sword in serpent skull for a katana. Bastard sword works well for it gamewise.
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Using the bastard sword stats means it's normally a 2-hander, which can be used as a 1-hander with special training - which seems to fit the general image of the katana.
Or...
Just give it the stats of a falcata - then at least we can merge all the complaints about unbalanced weapon statistics into one thread! :)
It's not in the PHB or Adventurers Armory. Also not in Luven Lightfingers.
Which blade would come close to mechanics of the Katana?
I think the elven curve-blade is the best approximation, myself, or possibly a bastard sword.
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That's a possibility that plays into the mythical aspect of katanas.
Another suggestion was treating it as a falchion. Maybe the "exotic" aspect could be using it one-handed, like with a bastard sword. I don't see katanas as finesse weapons. They do a fine job with a mighty swing (which fits typical movie tropes).
If we're looking for historical accuracy, we'd have to rewrite a LOT of weapons. Longswords and even greatswords were piercers as well as slashers. The swords used in Europe, the Middle East and the East were effective for their own regions, and the armor types that were in use at the time. Trying to be really accurate about it won't work, since adventuring bypasses real history, anyway.
Oh, I couldn't really care less about the mythical aspect of the katana. I'm saying that it's about the same size as a bastard sword, is usually used two-handed except for special schools of training where it's used 1-handed, and is a curved blade, which, with very few exceptions, is considered as doing less damage, but with a higher crit range. It's not that it's mythical or anything, it's that 1d8, 18-20/x2 is practical, creating something new while maintaining balance within the core weapons.
My main issue is that people see Katana and think "Oh, it's like an Elven Curve Blade that can be used in one hand," or, "It's like Bastard Sword that can be used with weapon finesse," or some other argument that clearly makes the Katana the superior choice. Why would you take Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Elven Curve Blade (from a mechanical perspective) when you could take Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Katana and get the same stats, but ALSO gain the ability to use it in one hand? The 1d8, 18-20/x2 katana breaks no weapon conventions, makes no weapon obsolete, and still provides a flavorful option that is in-line with the bastard sword, and fits nicely within the weapons as written.
Now, that said, if you want to flavor another weapon, like an Aldori Dueling Sword or Elven Curve Blade as a katana, that's fine. I have no problem with that, and it probably makes sense to just do it that way. I'm saying that, if you want to add a new weapon to the list, adding something to an existing weapon isn't the way to go (and, for that matter, adding extra damage types that go against convention).
What we have here is a combat system that is poor at representing the intricacies of weapon/armor interaction. A flat 'X' AC requires a 'Y' to hit crushes all manner of modifiers into paste. The Katana/Scimitar schools rely on slashing at fairly low armor targets to open bloody surface wounds. The whole European knight reality was the defeating of heavily armored foes. Come the RenFaire period (sry, had to) long, sticky, pointy was the way to go. The rules still say 'X' AC requires a 'Y' to hit, regardless of weapon or what constitutes the AC. Except 'touch AC'. A flabby Abomination hiding behind it's weird biology, a darting Sprite on full defence, an Ogre with a naturaly tough hide, and a heavily armored Halfling with Size and the Dodge feat are all the same.
Someone proposed a Dodge/Parry/something system years back that I have long since lost. That and integrating DR might help...
And in closing: A Katana can cut a tank in HALF! It's True! I saw it on the Internet!
I'd take the stats of a falchion and if you need the "asian stuff rulez" fluff (with all it's myths about awesome ninjas and the honor of bushido hardly any real world samurai really cared to much about), make it mw
I'm not to sure why D&D prefers to take the bastard sword - is the musashi two weapon style the default style for designers? In KotoR (which is based on 3.5), making lightsabers one handed is the reason why every melee based jedi has a double lightsaber or two lightsabers in contrary to all the movies and books.
I just wanted to point out that Knights of the Old Republic was set in (of course) the Old Republic. During these eras, especially during the time of the Sith (such as Exar Kun), melee duels with Lightsabers and/or cortosis-weaved vibroblades were much more common compared to the times of peace during the films. After the defeat of the Sith, Jedi rarely had to duel with others using lightsabers, and such forms such as Makashi fell out of style (one of the reasons Dooku is considered so dangerous is because he continues using the lightsaber duelist style, which most Jedi in his era do not) in favor of styles like Soresu (which is defensive) and Ataru (which uses the force to enhance your strengths).
Likewise, the use of dual-sabers is arguably less effective versus blaster fire, because of dividing your focus. While not reflected in the d20 SWRPGs, in KotoR there was an opposed attack roll that determined if you deflected or redirected attacks, which the hit penalties for dual wielding hurt overall. Again, it comes back to what you're doing to fight. In KotoR where you're often having to plow through a lot of melee mooks, slaughtering enemies with dual-wielding was quite good. It was, however, just as viable to build a 1-handed Jedi who was more defensive (which was particularly nice vs high level Sith and/or harder difficulties), who could pretty much murder blaster-wielding enemies by standing there (and I do mean just letting them attack you and never bothering to do anything except use the odd force power, unless you just wanted to dice them up).
Also, in KotoR, single-sabers were arguably better at using a number of the special attacks (including the critical-strike attack option) due to their higher threat range and what-not.
In the films, the Lightsaber is used in a world where blasters are much, much more common weapons. It's rare that Jedi have to fight anything in melee that their blades don't just tear through nigh instantly. Likewise, double-bladed and dual-sabers were also a bit out of style from a philosophical standpoint during the films.
Likewise, it's not contrary to all the movies and/or books. Ayla Secura is a Jedi who is very famous for her dual-wielding technique. Anakin tries to overpower Dooku's defense during Episode 2 by taking two lightsabers and making a very fast series of attacks. In D&D terms, you could say Dooku's AC was so high in his stance that Anakin just started throwing out as many strikes as he could hoping for 20s, since at this point the loss of accuracy was less prevalent. Dooku's defense prevailed, however, and he cleaved Anakin's arm off on his counter attack.
Like others have pointed out with real world weapons and armor, Star Wars and other fantasy settings often have their own reasons for why certain weapons and styles go in and out of style. I kind of like that.
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As to Katanas, they were often crafted with slightly different variations (such as length, curvature, etc). As such I really don't mind the bastard sword or bastard scimitar (1d8/18-20/x2) variations, and wouldn't get upset if someone just wanted to use something a bit lighter to emulate a Musashi-style dueling form, or use a greatsword or falchion to represent a particularly large katana such as a no-dachi or nagamaki.
Honestly, I'm pretty versatile when it comes to weapon options.
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Using the bastard sword stats means it's normally a 2-hander, which can be used as a 1-hander with special training - which seems to fit the general image of the katana.
Or...
Just give it the stats of a falcata - then at least we can merge all the complaints about unbalanced weapon statistics into one thread! :)
I lol'd, but that is an elegant solution
katana pwns long sword.
Nice! now explain me how to pummel the helmet (and hence the head) of a knight equipped with a full plate with a katana. And which are the half-sword techniques with katana.
Thank you in advance. :)
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katana pwns long sword.
That should be called "Breastplate Pwns Everything".
In all honesty, though, I'm pretty sure that if that Longsword would have been brought from behind the head by a 25-year-old in great shape rather than by a sexagenarian from shoulder height, that block of ice would have been toast.
Meh.
R Lee Ermey says "A."
random dude on internet who wasn't a Marine Drill Instructor AND costarred with Vincent D'onofrio in Full Metal Jacket says "B."
Absolutely nothing I have to prove here.
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Meh.
R Lee Ermey says "A."random dude on internet who wasn't a Marine Drill Instructor AND costarred with Vincent D'onofrio in Full Metal Jacket says "B."
Absolutely nothing I have to prove here.
Last time I checked, USMC wasn't using katans as standard issue weapons.
And no opponent faced by USMC in recent years used breastplates and longswords...
Marines use swords? I assumed US were more technologically advanced :D
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Meh.
R Lee Ermey says "A."random dude on internet who wasn't a Marine Drill Instructor AND costarred with Vincent D'onofrio in Full Metal Jacket says "B."
Absolutely nothing I have to prove here.
Last time I checked, USMC wasn't using katans as standard issue weapons.
And no opponent faced by USMC in recent years used breastplates and longswords...
What are you like in Uzbekistan? All you know is what Wikileaks tells you.
Marines use swords? I assumed US were more technologically advanced :D
well you can't have cruise missiles at a wedding, now can you.