So, in my current campaign my Half-Orc Barbarian is growing a little stale. Run in, rage, smash, and maybe get something furry to skin. Fun, but to be honest I would like to try something new. We recently took sides in a war among thieves and landed ourselves a nice little fortress to base our company out of, and now our DM is allowing us to bring in alternate characters as part of our growing mercenary group.
My idea for an alternate character would be a Halfing Rogue utilizing the Sniper Archetype in the APG and the Swift as Shadows racial trait. The idea is to eventually make a sniper that would take no penalties for sniping, have crazy range and be able to pump whatever unlucky critter he's stalking full of sneak attack fueled crossbow bolts before it knows what's happening.
Bear with me, I'm fairly new to Pathfinder (to D&D in general) so I might make some silly errors.
Books: If it's published Pathfinder it's allowed. Within reason of course, he really hates power gaming.*cough*
Ability Points: 15 Point buy. I suck with points, someone please help!
Character Levels: 7
We can bring in new characters at our current character's levels. We're just about to hit 7 so I think that's when short stack here will make his appearance.
Feats:
1. Point Blank Shot
2. (Rogue) Weapon Focus Heavy Crossbow
3. Rapid Reload
4. (Rogue) Camouflage
5. Rapid Shot
6. (Rogue) Crossbow Mastery
7. Precise Shot
8+ Haven't really thought about... Though getting the Stealthy Sniper advanced rogue talent at 10 is a must. Maybe Focus shot, Improved Precise Shot, Farshot etc. Are there feats that I'm completely leaving out?
Items that I'm looking into are obviously a Masterwork Heavy Crossbow with a Spyglass jimmy-rigged on top(if I can sweet talk my GM into it..) Not sure on what enchantments to look out for to put on it. I would like to eventually grab Sniper Goggles, but money is kind of tight in this campaign. I doubt we'll get the starting gold stated in the Core book, more likely to get half of it.
Thanks in advance for any input. Cheers!
I have a Sniper archetype build that multiclasses with the Crossbowman archetype. It seems like you're going pure Rogue, but here are my suggestions nonetheless.
Feats:
-Crossbow Mastery (Reload as a free action without provoking AoOs, and you can make full attack actions in a round as if using a normal bow.)
-Point-blank Master (You need Weapon Specialization, but you don't provoke AoOs with any one ranged weapon.)
-Pinpoint Targeting (BAB needs to be +16, so you'd definitely need to dip into Fighter/Ranger levels for this one. Anyway, as a standard action, it let's you ignore shield, armor, and natural armor bonuses to AC as long as you don't move during the round in which you use it.)
Rogue Talents:
-Minor/Major Magic (I only took this so I could use True Strike as a spell-like ability 2/day. Vanish and Gravity Bow might also be useful, though. This suggestion is mostly for flavor, but I'm sure it would come in handy anyway.)
-Any of the talents suggested in the APG (like you didn't already know.)
I hope this helps, or at least gets you thinking about other things that are useful to you. =)
EDIT: As far as ability points, my suggestion would be fairly obvious. Your most important stats would be Dex, Con, and Int for the Rogue's skills (and Minor/Major Magic talents, if you decide to use them). Speaking of Int, if you do end up having a high Int mod, you should definitely take the Focused Shot feat for added damage. (Also, all of my suggestions are pretty much from the APG along with the Sniper archetype.)
The Crossbow Archetype for fighter seems interesting, but it looks like I'd have to dip quite a few levels to get the benefits. Really looking for a bursty rogue that assassinates targets or follows the group from a distance and supports with superior fire power. 50 foot sneak attack is no joke!
As with Point Blank Master, I think he'd be more of the type to consider enemies getting close to him a failure on his part and simply run away.
Would the feat Go Unnoticed be a good idea to take? My DM is a little iffy on our hiding, rarely gives enough cover. Though he always manages to put terrain in front of my charge :/
Also the rules on sniping are... odd...
"If you’ve already successfully used Stealth at
least 10 feet from your target, you can make [bold]one[/bold] ranged
attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take
a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your
obscured location."
Meaning I couldn't take a full attack action?
Is there any reason to not take the halfling warslinger racial ability and use the sling instead of the crossbow?
Is there any reason to not take the halfling warslinger racial ability and use the sling instead of the crossbow?
Crossbow fits the character concept better. And the Swift as Shadows gets me to a -0 for sniping at lvl 10.
The other advantage of the crossbow is that it is one of the few weapons that can be used prone. Being prone does several things for a ranged attacker, not the least of which is getting more out of the limited cover.
I will warn you Alwaysafk, skulkers and snipers don't always work out well in may soutions. You do not want to back your charater into a mechanics courner by hyper focusing on one attack style. You really want two ranges the character can work at, distant and in your face. Consider what you'll do if caught in a desert, inside, ambushed, traveling. Sniping is all well and good when you have time to setup and get good position (even with skills and feats to virtually vanish instantly) but if thats your ownly trick it's not going to be fun.
I will also point Sniping (to stay hidden) only allows a single attack. You pump a critter full of sneak attacks when popping out of hiding wihtin 30 feet and unloading gangster Tommygun style.
The other advantage of the crossbow is that it is one of the few weapons that can be used prone. Being prone does several things for a ranged attacker, not the least of which is getting more out of the limited cover.
I will warn you Alwaysafk, skulkers and snipers don't always work out well in may soutions. You do not want to back your charater into a mechanics courner by hyper focusing on one attack style. You really want two ranges the character can work at, distant and in your face. Consider what you'll do if caught in a desert, inside, ambushed, traveling. Sniping is all well and good when you have time to setup and get good position (even with skills and feats to virtually vanish instantly) but if thats your ownly trick it's not going to be fun.
I will also point Sniping (to stay hidden) only allows a single attack. You pump a critter full of sneak attacks when popping out of hiding wihtin 30 feet and unloading gangster Tommygun style.
Ah, this is very true. I often find myself making focusing into one aspect with my characters often not taking into consideration the negatives that go along with it. Probably due to my lack of experience. As an alternate character the situations he would be brought in to would be assassination jobs where the party would know when and where to place the bolt.
However, DM rarely lets us get the jump on our prey, I doubt we've gone into a single encounter full knowing what to expect.
That rule about single shot sniping, makes me a sad panda. I doubt he could stay relevant in damage for long with only a single shot. Starting to rethink the character into something else, maybe a control fighter/monk instead.
Any ideas how to work around those problems?
If you want to create a monk with some control, here is a good link to check. Its a guide that give you help how to optimize a monk. you dont have to follow the guide feat by feat, but it gives you some idea of the general thing yuo can do, some...
Strength-focused monks are great, I'm playing one right now. Lots of speed, lots of options (stunning fist is great, as it will always do damage even if they make their save), respectable manuevers and good damage. You essentially want to stack flat damage bonuses that you capitalize from with your flurry of blows. Fighters too, can be incredibly fun. However...
I often find myself making focusing into one aspect with my characters often not taking into consideration the negatives that go along with it. Probably due to my lack of experience.
Ranged sneak attacks are unfortunately a little underwhelming, as they're so hard to set up. You either have to rely on sniping (which is fantasticlaly cool when pulled off right) or a number of not-so-flavourful and unreliable methods for catching foes off guard: blinding, invisibility and grease spells to name a few. However, I don't necessarily think it's something that can't be fixed.
Essentially, you need to cover all of your bases. You presumably have the dex for two weapon fighting. A point in the finesse rogue talent and you're more than competant in melee, if it's called for. You're applying mutliple sneak attacks per round should you be at a disadvantage.
As for your sniping, should you actively seek out an advantage/ambush, I'm sure your DM would accomodate you. It's a build that encourages active preparation. That said, I don't think one sneak attack a round will necessarily cripple you. Don't forget that before an enemy acts, he's flatfooted. That's one attack on the surprise round, and a full-attack on the first round (should you win initiative, which isn't too hard). From here you can begin sniping. Have you considered the "go unnoticed" feat for a free stealth check at the start of an encounter?
Never underestimate the importance of gear, either. A light shock crossbow (or something similar) coupled with deadly aim (and vital strike later as you'll be restricted to single attacks) will deal 3d6+4 before sneak attack damage. But most important here is poison, which can be absolutely crippling and set you up for coup-de-gras attacks with paralysis/unconciousness (and allow you to potentially take out opponents on your own), I also found the bear trap in the Adventurer's Vault nice for ambushes, and you could easily poison this trap for added deadliness.
You just have to ask yourself whether you're willing to worry about the element of surprise and positioning in every encounter rather than charge full pelt at the enemy. Your party should be able to help you here. A party mage can lay down a glitterdust spell during the surprise round, and with any luck you can just take pot-shots for the rest of the encounter with no need for sniping.
There seem to be a lot of options you've overlooked. While rogues struggle on the damage front, they're definately not beyond help. Hopefully the rest of the board have a bit more input, because I'm well out of practice.
Best of luck.
Nobody will ever find you.
|
rogue guy with sniper goggles, two weapon fighting feats, and dual returning richochet hammers is the absolute... if level 7+ have a cohort make you invisible each turn (greater invisible when you can afford it)
the only problem is that at high levels everybody and their dog has True Seeing which really screws snipers as they depend on invisibility to be real effective
rogue guy with sniper goggles, two weapon fighting feats, and dual returning richochet hammers is the absolute... if level 7+ have a cohort make you invisible each turn (greater invisible when you can afford it)
the only problem is that at high levels everybody and their dog has True Seeing which really screws snipers as they depend on invisibility to be real effective
which is a really good reason to go for levels in master spy -- that always on mind blank is wonderful for evading true seeing.
Alright, new character concept loosely built Darkness Isaac from the manga Jackals. Character is meant to be a combat controller with respectable damage output, but focused on keeping the enemy disoriented and CC'd. Replacing my meat shield tank with a more versatile one capable of some deep RP, more than "LOGEN SMASH! LOGEN DRINK! LOGEN SMASH DRUNKENLY!"
Combat Theory: Keep the enemy in place while my group turns it into goop.
Move in Trip/Disarm/Smack, move back and prevent anyone from getting to the back of the party. HiPS as part of that move action would give me plenty of flat footed AC's to hit too.
Books: Pathfinder only
Human
5 levels of fighter, 2 of shadow dancer
Skill Points: Str: 18 Dex:14 Con: 14 Int: 13 Wis: 10 Cha: 9
Feats:
Fighter
1. Dodge, Mobility, Combat Reflexes
2. Combat Expertise
3. Improved Trip
4. Spring Attack
5. Improved Disarm
Shadow Dancer
6. ---
7. ???? Don't think whirlwind would fit the character concept. Maybe something like Greater Disarm or Greater Trip.
Items: Mithral Breastplate, Cloak of Elvenkind
***HELP***
What class of weapons should I specialize in?
Wondering if I should pick up a Heavy Mithral Shield, AC would be around 23 static, or leave my hand open for a two handed weapon. Nothing says, THE F- like a man stepping out of the shadows swinging a greatsword at you.
Thinking light weapons, things I can trade out while I'm doing my little hide and go seek around battlefield to suit the situation. Sickle (for tripping) comes to mind, but what else should I do?