Does shooting while stealthed (using sniping rules to immediately re-stealth after shooting) deny the enemy bonus to dexterity? Is it equivilant to shooting while invisible?
I've created a character that basically can't fail at stealthing (+46 at level 4), and I was curious if I could basically sit in my house and basically destroy an entire town square.
Does shooting while stealthed (using sniping rules to immediately re-stealth after shooting) deny the enemy bonus to dexterity? Is it equivilant to shooting while invisible?
It does. That's why you get sneak attack.
I've created a character that basically can't fail at stealthing (+46 at level 4), and I was curious if I could basically sit in my house and basically destroy an entire town square.
How please?
Goblin buys a few nice houses overlooking the main square of a medium-sized city and links them all with underground tunnels. He installs arrow slits to act as improved cover, disguising them as decorations and ornaments, and covered with some ivy and stuff. Then, he can proceed to start randomly shooting into the square and running between the houses, to make it seem the shots are coming from totally different directions.
After several minutes, it is likely more powerful reinforcements(read: PCs that will find you a CR appropriate encounter (CR 5 encounter)) will arrive, ready to chop your head off and earn experience points. Not to worry: surprise round them with thundershot, which if aimed at a single PC, should easily take them down one at a time, though two wizards/sorcerers/bards could also be defeated. Laugh maniacally at your profit and flee the city. Because you have such a high stealth modifier, no one should be able to even see you, much less recognize you when you head to another town.
That's duel-wielding double-barrelled pistols, using hand of mage as a friend to keep hold of one pistol while reloading the other.
Evidently, all you need to do is buy a bunch of houses, install disguised arrow slits and then link them with underground tunnels. Simple!
Maybe the rerequisite for the +46 Stealth is +46 Bluff.
Also, are you sure this isn't GTA:Back In The Chariot Days, and not Pathfinder?
It does. That's why you get sneak attack.
Hey Golem, can you point me where it shows that? Because I've been very curious why anyone would snipe.
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I think his question was more on how you get +46 stealth.
Easy. Put 11 Skill points per level into stealth. Add +2 racial bonus for goblin.
It does. That's why you get sneak attack.Hey Golem, can you point me where it shows that? Because I've been very curious why anyone would snipe.
Presumably, anyone being sniped would be considered flat-footed at a minimum. Also, if you can't see your attacker they probably count as invisible to you, and you lose your Dex against their attack. Either way, that lets you sneak attack (assuming you're within 30 feet or have, say, Sniper Goggles).
It does. That's why you get sneak attack.Hey Golem, can you point me where it shows that? Because I've been very curious why anyone would snipe.
I don't have a book in front of me. I typing on an iPad from a beach house.
I'm not sure it's totally spelled out, but under sneak attack it says you can do so from within 30 feet with a ranged weapon. Somewhere it says if a target is not aware of you they're denied their Dex bonus. Hence a main point of stealth + sneak attack.
So unless you're within 30 feet (with the exception of the rogue sniper archetype) the only point of sniping is so the enemy doesn't know where the shots are coming from and not extra damage.
Sniping is a neat trick, but it's only subjectively helpful. Arguably "shot on the run" would be of greater combat effectiveness.
Edit: what Slaunueh said.
I think his question was more on how you get +46 stealth.Easy. Put 11 Skill points per level into stealth. Add +2 racial bonus for goblin.
I'm assuming this isn't a serious reply.
I'm assuming this isn't a serious reply.I think his question was more on how you get +46 stealth.Easy. Put 11 Skill points per level into stealth. Add +2 racial bonus for goblin.
Yeah. He forgot the +4 for being small size.
Yeah. He forgot the +4 for being small size.I'm assuming this isn't a serious reply.I think his question was more on how you get +46 stealth.Easy. Put 11 Skill points per level into stealth. Add +2 racial bonus for goblin.
And the +3 for class skill. Sorry, my bad.
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And the +3 for class skill. Sorry, my bad.Yeah. He forgot the +4 for being small size.I'm assuming this isn't a serious reply.I think his question was more on how you get +46 stealth.Easy. Put 11 Skill points per level into stealth. Add +2 racial bonus for goblin.
And if he's that focused on stealth he'll have Skill Focus so there's another +3. Or would it be +6 since he's got over 10 ranks starting from level 1?
EDIT: Seriously though, how'd the OP get +46 at level 4?
Seriously though, how'd the OP get +46 at level 4?
I have no idea...
Yeah I can't see 46 personally.
Cloak of Elvenkind 5
Dex 5
Skillranks 4 (can only have 1/level)
Small 4
Focus 3
Goblin +4
I get around 25. I would love to see 46 :p
And his range is only 30', as the Sniper Goggs are big $'s and you can't afford them so early.
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Yeah I can't see 46 personally.
Cloak of Elvenkind 5
Dex 5
Skillranks 4 (can only have 1/level)
Small 4
Focus 3
Goblin +4I get around 25. I would love to see 46 :p
And his range is only 30', as the Sniper Goggs are big $'s and you can't afford them so early.
Boots of elvenkind +5
Skill focus (stealth)+3Stealthy +2
i get 35...let's say improved cover grants an additional +10 to stealth...
well, **** me sideways and call me sallie, but it gets to a +45...dangit.
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Yeah I can't see 46 personally.
Cloak of Elvenkind 5
Dex 5
Skillranks 4 (can only have 1/level)
Small 4
Focus 3
Goblin +4I get around 25. I would love to see 46 :p
And his range is only 30', as the Sniper Goggs are big $'s and you can't afford them so early.
Boots of elvenkind +5
Skill focus (stealth)+3
Stealthy +2i get 35...let's say improved cover grants an additional +10 to stealth...
well, **** me sideways and call me sallie, but it gets to a +45...dangit.
+40 for being stationary and invisible.
So that's a +85. In light of that, +46 isn't even trying. :)
Boots of elvenkind +5
Skill focus (stealth)+3
Stealthy +2i get 35...let's say improved cover grants an additional +10 to stealth...
well, **** me sideways and call me sallie, but it gets to a +45...dangit.
Boots give Acrobatics, not Stealth sadly :(
Cloak of Elvenkind 5
Dex 5
Skillranks 4 (can only have 1/level)
Small 4
Focus (stealth) 3
Class Skill 3
Goblin +4
Stealthy Feat +2
Some random trait? +1
OK we are pushing 30.
So that's a +85. In light of that, +46 isn't even trying. :)
but thats using Invisibility off an item, he was talking about Stealth.
So that's a +85. In light of that, +46 isn't even trying. :)but thats using Invisibility off an item, he was talking about Stealth.
Invisibility is just a bonus to Stealth, same as skill focus and cloaks of elvenkind!
I didn't realize we were suddenly being serious. Sowwy. :(
Invisibility is just a bonus to Stealth, same as skill focus and cloaks of elvenkind!I didn't realize we were suddenly being serious. Sowwy. :(
Fo shizzle, we iz breaking down the hard science and asking the top noggin kwestchuns.
Can itz be done brother, can itz be done?
Considering he's talking about buying buildings, I think we're less concerned about wealth here. The wealth-by-level guidelines are just that, guidelines.
And his range is only 30', as the Sniper Goggs are big $'s and you can't afford them so early.
Perhaps he inherited the goggles and the buildings from his old sniper-master who was recently killed in an unfortunate town-square incident. Now he's on a mission to avenge his master.
Town squares everywhere, be afraid. Be very afraid.
Parents were killed by marauding Elves.
+8 from Dex (18 dex from point buy + 2 from belt of dexterity + 4 from goblin racial + 2 from amulet of reduce person)
+4 from Ranks
+3 Class Skill
+8 from size (Tiny sized)
+4 Goblin Racial
+5 Cloak of Elven Kind
+10 Improved Cover
And there was another +4 from somewhere, but I can't find it at the moment. And aren't small houses pretty cheap?
Aha, we could do that too. It wouldn't adversely affect damage, and vastly increase stealth and weapon hit chances. Thanks. :)
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Ok so here's a question.
Why?
I mean the Goblin has gone to a lot of trouble (some would say a ludicrous amount) to set up this trap. He has spent hundreds of gold spent numerous man (Goblin?) hours to set up a plan that will almost certainly result in his death. For what reason exactly?
"Because he's evil" isn't an explanation. He's evidently a cunning little critter to come up with this plan so I doubt he'd be willing to throw his life away. "Because he's a Goblin" doesn't work either because this plan doesn't involve nearly enough fire.
Any Goblin who managed to pull this off is an incredibly cunning and resourceful enemy. As such this presents the central paradox of the whole idea- any Goblin clever enough to pull this off is not stupid enough to try it in the first place.
Answers on a postcard?
Wait at L4 you had enough money to buy a +4 Dex belt as well?
* Your numbers there cite the Goblin bonus twice.
* The amulet only improves the skill 1 step (+2 Dex)
so you have a total of 28, and then rely on improved cover, which you may or may not have.
All this to do Tiny damage?
Oh and can I have a citation for 'Improved cover' and the +10 bonus? Seems you need cover/concealment to get to stealth at all, cant see anything about a +10. Best I see you getting is them having a -2 on their Perception check for 'unfavourable conditions' or with the broadest stretch ever you might get terrible for 5.
All that to get ONE shot off unobserved.
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[/quote="Pathfinder RD"]
Improved Cover: In some cases, such as attacking a target hiding behind an arrowslit, cover may provide a greater bonus to AC and Reflex saves. In such situations, the normal cover bonuses to AC and Reflex saves can be doubled (to +8 and +4, respectively). A creature with this improved cover effectively gains improved evasion against any attack to which the Reflex save bonus applies. Furthermore, improved cover provides a +10 bonus on Stealth checks.
There.
Thanks Hama.
Ok so all he has to do now is walk everywhere with a wall with an arrowslit, and hope that once people realise they are being shot from the arrow slit (which they CAN see) they dont simply come inside.
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Well, that is also going to be a problem...first of all, let's say 30 feet of distance, that is an automatical +3 to the DC of perception.
Let us say that the base DC for this is 15 (average concealed door DC) because the goblin went to some legths to conceal things. So we have
Average concealed arrowslit
Base 15
Distance +3
Distraction from panicking crowd when people start seeing others die with arrows in them. +5
Unfavorable conditions, again it is a town, the arrows could have come from anywhere +2
Also, considering that the slit can be really small since the goblin is now tiny, another +2 to DC on the account of size being an unfavorable condition.
DC is 22...how many 1st level commoners are going to notice a tiny arrowslit that is concealed by some wines?
Also add another +2 to DC if the goblin stays by each arrowslit only for one shot and then moves to another.
SO 24...not easy...even for a level 1 character specialising in perception (ranger)
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DC is 22...how many 1st level commoners are going to notice a tiny arrowslit that is concealed by some wines?
Since 20 is an automatic success even people who have 10 wisdom and no ranks in perception will have a 5% chance. So if there's 100 people 5 witnesses on the first turn can point it out to the guards.
I think you are starting to stack modifiers there.
Terrible conditions are -5.
You have assigned -9.
I think we re now on a fishing expedition, a couple of panicked people are now equivalent to a Dragon roaring?
Not sure where you get the +2 for the moving Goblin from either. Each Arrow slit is detectable on its own. So the more there are the easier they will be to spot.
Similarly that goblin is going to have a very small angle of fire.
The range is maxed at 30', surely some of that crowd will also be closer.
Anyhow, the scenario is really beyond the ridiculous - and it seems a let down that the mythical figure of 46 had to include such cheezy environmental factors and was so situational it might work once at best.
No, it isn't. The natural 20 rule does not apply to skill checks.
Since 20 is an automatic success
Fine. Be that way.
1 person looks, 99 aid anoother.
Person 1 just got a bonus (average) of 98 to their roll, instantly spotting the slit and the Goblin. Cant even miss on a 1.
GOUDA FTW!
SO 24...not easy...even for a level 1 character specialising in perception (ranger)
What do you mean by not easy? I have a monk with +12 to perception at level 1. Trying to figure out how you see not easy.
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The rules say distraction is a +5 and each separate set of unfavorable condition is a +2
A couple? Have you been in a panicking crowd? I have, my country underwent some very big upheavals in it's time and i (foolishly) went to participate and i was 14...It is very distracting when cops start to run towards you or brandish teargas launchers. The mass is very distracting.
Also, no, a natural 20 doesn't mean automatic success on skill checks, not since 3.5.
Edit: ninja'd by Jadeite :D
They are still getting a modifier off all those aid anothers on average getting a score of just over 100.
Despite the Goblins best effort, he will be made immediately.
The commoners are all aiding another, its DEAD easy, they collectively CANNOT FAIL :)
No he has to decree they can't actually.
Aid Another
You can help someone achieve success on a skill check by making the same kind of skill check in a cooperative effort. If you roll a 10 or higher on your check, the character you're helping gets a +2 bonus on his or her check. (You can't take 10 on a skill check to aid another.) In many cases, a character's help won't be beneficial, or only a limited number of characters can help at once.
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So, you think that a mass of people who just saw several of them fall dead with arrows protruding from their bodies is going to try to see where the arrows came from? Not gonna happen. Trained soldiers maybe, and city guards, and anyone with combat experience will probably looks around. Normal people? They are going to cast one look at the body and think:"s**t that could have been me, better to get the heck out of this square", and when several start running, everyone is going to start running. Do not overestimate regular people. Not every single character in the world is an adventurer. Most of them are commoners 1 and will stay that for the rest of their lives.