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Spell load:
when cast it immeadiately acts as an already known lower level spell that can be cast spontaneously, but can be cast as a swift action. alternatively by 'locking' in a given spell of lower level, its caster level is considered +1
I don't get what you are trying to do here.
Spend a standard action to cast a spell that will allow you to cast (at 0 spell slot sot cost) a lower level spell as swift action? You can already do that, using directly a higher spell slot to cast a lower level spell.
I see some use but they would be very marginal and only if you can move between casting the standard action spell and the swift type.
Or it should have a duration of x round unless discharged, so a way to get a quickened spell later at low cost?
Check out this book: here
The Velocerix spells are for sorcerers only.
Also, Complete Mage from WotC had some spells that were sorcerer only. Arcane Fusion and Greater Arcane Fusion, I think they were called.
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The 'CAN' in there makes it sound like you have a choice.
UNLIKE a true blooded genie ;) YAY HALF-BLOODS!!!
I don't think that true genies *have* to grant a wish, if they don't like the phrasing, or aren't in the mood. I always saw it as 'supplicant makes a wish' and 'genie then chooses whether or not to grant that wish.' Indeed, genies being a bit more expert on such matters, might suggest phrasing more likely to work out in the advantage of the supplicant (if they are feeling generous), or more likely to lead to unintended consequences (if they are feeling puckish).
Even in the cases where the genie is obligated to grant a wish, there rarely seems to be any wording in there that requires him to grant the *first* wish he's asked.
"I wish to swap our minds, so that I have the powers of an immortal genie, and you are stuck in my aging mortal body!"
<ominous power crackles through the air and items dance of their own volition, and then it all falls to the ground and nothing happens>
"Um, I don't think so."
"What?!? You *have* to grant me a wish!"
"And I shall. Just not that one. Try again, and grovel a little bit, it might increase your chances."
Every wizard spell that is added exponentially increases a wizard's power, while only potentially or theoretically increasing a sorcerer's. On spells alone, UM was a landfall reward to wizards.
Of course, on top of that, sorcerers got an archtype or two and some bloodlines, while wizards got psuedo-feats that not only dramatically alter their power but flat out give them other classes' capstones.
I prefer sorcerers for mechanical and aesthetic purposes, but wizards post-UM only reign even more supreme.
Every wizard spell that is added exponentially increases a wizard's power, while only potentially or theoretically increasing a sorcerer's. OCan you explain the logic behind that sentence? Caster level and feats being equal a spell is a spell no matter who casts it.
Wizards can put every spell in their spellbook.
Sorcerers cannot learn every spell.
Every new spell at all that is available to wizards is a new option. A new scroll they can make. A new utility spell they can memorize on the go (now in only a minute! Thanks, UM!). And so on, and so forth. Even the most circumstancial new spells can still be shoved in a spellbook, then shoved onto a scroll.
For sorcerers, every new spell is another potential option from a limited stock.
PFS barely even counts on anything imo.
But the sorcerer here isn't complaining that they can't wizard as well as a wizard.
The complaint here is that the practically anything the sorcerer can do, the wizard can do better. It would be like Rogue vs Fighter, where the fighter gains sneak attack, stealth skills, uncanny dodge, evasion and all that, PLUS all his fighter exclusive feats.
Meanwhile the rogue is stuck with the same weapons (The fighter can use them all cause he has a large amount of "weapon prof" that the rogue)
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I think that, while the problem isn't nearly as big as some people make it out to be; one thing that makes it bigger is that while the wizard gets a few spells, abilities, and feats specifically to combat the weaknesses imherent in his spellcasting mechanics (the necessity to have spells pre-prepared), the sorcerer largely doesn't get anything comparable to combat the weaknesses of her spellcasting mechanics (the limited number of spells known).
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I think that, while the problem isn't nearly as big as some people make it out to be; one thing that makes it bigger is that while the wizard gets a few spells, abilities, and feats specifically to combat the weaknesses imherent in his spellcasting mechanics (the necessity to have spells pre-prepared), the sorcerer largely doesn't get anything comparable to combat the weaknesses of her spellcasting mechanics (the limited number of spells known).
This -- This this this this!
Thank you Kthulhu you explained it very well for me. I'll have Azathoth make a new melody for you!
Well wizards ARE better then sorcerers in all aspects save one. Spells per day. Sorcerers get a lot more spells per day then wizards.
Plus sorcerers are much much better at social interactions then wizards.
That's a common thing to think. In actuality, most wizards get more total spell levels per day than a sorcerer, easily half the time (or more if they put some effort in), and that's what counts.
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That's a common thing to think. In actuality, most wizards get more total spell levels per day than a sorcerer, easily half the time (or more if they put some effort in), and that's what counts.Well wizards ARE better then sorcerers in all aspects save one. Spells per day. Sorcerers get a lot more spells per day then wizards.
Plus sorcerers are much much better at social interactions then wizards.
The role of the sorcerer needs to be redefined. I think that is the obvious now. For one thing, it needs to be put in line with the oracle. More skill points per level for sure, and more at will abilities that reflect the sorcerer's wild use of magic. Perhaps more metamagic bonus feats as well, to reflect the sorcerer's ad hoc approach to spellcasting.
Sorcerers often come out behind on spell slots due to wizard's specialisation and sorcerer's inability to use pears of power.
And I certainly agree with Nightflier that sorcerers seem to be far behind in terms of abilities when compared with the Oracle.
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Sorcerers often come out behind on spell slots due to wizard's specialisation and sorcerer's inability to use pears of power.
I consider the total lack of spell power compared to wizards more than appropriate. The thing is, the sorcerer is now more defined by bloodlines than by its spells. Therefore, I think that further development of the class should be more oriented to the "per day" and "at will" abilities than spell slots.
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I think that, while the problem isn't nearly as big as some people make it out to be; one thing that makes it bigger is that while the wizard gets a few spells, abilities, and feats specifically to combat the weaknesses imherent in his spellcasting mechanics (the necessity to have spells pre-prepared), the sorcerer largely doesn't get anything comparable to combat the weaknesses of her spellcasting mechanics (the limited number of spells known).
Like the favoured class option for humans?
Sorcerer: Add one spell known from the sorcerer spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the sorcerer can cast.
Like Expanded arcana?
"Expanded Arcana
Your research has revealed new spells.
Prerequisites: Caster level 1st, see Special.
Benefit: Add one spell from your class's spell list to your list of spells known. This is in addition to the number of spells normally gained at each new level in your class. You may instead add two spells from your class's spell list to your list of spells known, but both of these spells must be at least one level lower than the highest level spell you can cast in that class. Once made, these choices cannot be changed.
Special: You can only take this feat if you possess levels in a class whose spellcasting relies on a limited list of spells known, such as the bard, oracle, and sorcerer.
You can gain Expanded Arcana multiple times."
Beside adding the favored class option for all the races and not only the humans I see little room to improve the sorcerer position.
Maybe a magic item giving him the knowledge of a few more spells.
Apparently the people protesting in these boards wouldn't be happy unless he can chose from all the wizard and clerical spells every morning what would be his daily selection of spell know, so I dounbth anything will appease them.
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That's a common thing to think. In actuality, most wizards get more total spell levels per day than a sorcerer, easily half the time (or more if they put some effort in), and that's what counts.Well wizards ARE better then sorcerers in all aspects save one. Spells per day. Sorcerers get a lot more spells per day then wizards.
Plus sorcerers are much much better at social interactions then wizards.
Replying to an half truth with an twisted half truth. [roll eyes]
When a specialist wizard get new spells at the odd level he has more spells (at lower levels), but still he pay that extra spell every level with using 2 slots for the spells of the opposite school.
When the sorcerer get his new spell level at the even level he has more spells and at higher levels he has always more spells even if he lack the highest spell level. More often than not having more spells is better than having 2 or 3 spells of 1 higher level for one level every 2.
Sorcerers often come out behind on spell slots due to wizard's specialisation and sorcerer's inability to use pears of power.I consider the total lack of spell power compared to wizards more than appropriate. The thing is, the sorcerer is now more defined by bloodlines than by its spells. Therefore, I think that further development of the class should be more oriented to the "per day" and "at will" abilities than spell slots.
Sorcerers often come out behind on spell slots due to wizard's specialisation and sorcerer's inability to use pears of power.
And I certainly agree with Nightflier that sorcerers seem to be far behind in terms of abilities when compared with the Oracle.
"But if the wizard load magic items he will have more spells".
Why , a sorcerer can't buy a staff and get more spells he can't normally cast? He would almost always have the spare spell to recharge it.More feats between wick he can chose? Fine.
But I see it is "more skill points, more feats for free". A bit greedy.
That's a common thing to think. In actuality, most wizards get more total spell levels per day than a sorcerer, easily half the time (or more if they put some effort in), and that's what counts.Well wizards ARE better then sorcerers in all aspects save one. Spells per day. Sorcerers get a lot more spells per day then wizards.
Plus sorcerers are much much better at social interactions then wizards.
Replying to an half truth with an twisted half truth. [roll eyes]
When a specialist wizard get new spells at the odd level he has more spells (at lower levels), but still he pay that extra spell every level with using 2 slots for the spells of the opposite school.
When the sorcerer get his new spell level at the even level he has more spells and at higher levels he has always more spells even if he lack the highest spell level. More often than not having more spells is better than having 2 or 3 spells of 1 higher level for one level every 2.
Sorcerers often come out behind on spell slots due to wizard's specialisation and sorcerer's inability to use pears of power.I consider the total lack of spell power compared to wizards more than appropriate. The thing is, the sorcerer is now more defined by bloodlines than by its spells. Therefore, I think that further development of the class should be more oriented to the "per day" and "at will" abilities than spell slots.Sorcerers often come out behind on spell slots due to wizard's specialisation and sorcerer's inability to use pears of power.
And I certainly agree with Nightflier that sorcerers seem to be far behind in terms of abilities when compared with the Oracle.
"But if the wizard load magic items he will have more spells".
Why , a sorcerer can't buy a staff and get more spells he can't normally cast? He would almost always have the spare spell to recharge it.More feats...
Both Sorcerers and Wizards are able to use staffs, but the wizard has an additional option for supplementing his spell slots by replenishing his spells- and this additional method is cheaper and more sustainable (since you can only recharge 1 staff by 1 charge each night you rest).
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Both Sorcerers and Wizards are able to use staffs, but the wizard has an additional option for supplementing his spell slots by replenishing his spells- and this additional method is cheaper and more sustainable (since you can only recharge 1 staff by 1 charge each night you rest).
A staff has multiple spells. A wizard can get those spell in his spell book if he want so he get a bit of extra firepower but not much in the field of extra flexibility.
On the other hand the sorcerer can chose a staff with only 1 spell in his list of spell know, be able to recharge it and at the same time expand his list of available spells by several spells.
So a sorcerer get more mileage from a staff.
Both Sorcerers and Wizards are able to use staffs, but the wizard has an additional option for supplementing his spell slots by replenishing his spells- and this additional method is cheaper and more sustainable (since you can only recharge 1 staff by 1 charge each night you rest).A staff has multiple spells. A wizard can get those spell in his spell book if he want so he get a bit of extra firepower but not much in the field of extra flexibility.
On the other hand the sorcerer can chose a staff with only 1 spell in his list of spell know, be able to recharge it and at the same time expand his list of available spells by several spells.
So a sorcerer get more mileage from a staff.
It allows a wizard access to spells that he might not have otherwise prepared, so I'd suggest that both sorcerers and wizards benefit rather evenly. And I would suggest that we leave this as a matter of differing opinion, since the thread is getting derailed enough as it is.
PFS barely even counts on anything imo.
But the sorcerer here isn't complaining that they can't wizard as well as a wizard.
The complaint here is that the practically anything the sorcerer can do, the wizard can do better. It would be like Rogue vs Fighter, where the fighter gains sneak attack, stealth skills, uncanny dodge, evasion and all that, PLUS all his fighter exclusive feats.
The claim however falls down because he evaluates the sorcerer on terms of a wizard in which case it will always fail. Wizards can not spontaneous cast to anywhere near the degree that sorcerers can. And they don't spellcast any better than sorcerers do. They don't have the at will flexibility in metamagic that sorcerers can, and Sorcerers do have options which are closed entirely to wizards.
A well-conceived well played sorcerer will stand on it's own in a niche no wizard can hope to copy.
Actually wizards are able to spell cast better than a sorcerer can.
Wizards have access to a total of 4 more spell casting feats over a sorcerer. Sorcerers have access to a total of 3 bloodline feats.
The spellcasting feats are > than bloodline feats. Why might you ask? Because a spell casting feat is expansive. Blood line feats are inclusive. In otherwords the amount of choices with a spell casting feat is constantly increasing each and every book at is released. If you choose elemental bloodline, Did APG or UM, or any other supplemental book give you any more choices?
How many of those books increased the number of spellcasting feat options?
Eschew Materials vs Scribe Scroll.
Eschew Materials is "have a spell component pouch for free." Scribe scroll, especially with the new scroll master class, is Prepare your spells four weeks in advance for whenever you need them and as many of them as you can afford.
Sure in PFS where they gut everything, this may not make so much of a difference but in what at least I consider the real world, it does. Again, one is expansive. The other is easily replicated by a 5 gp item.
The "At-will metamagic" Sure, if you want to spend a full round action casting the spell. Again the wizard has access to a greater amount of metamagic feats and can apply said feats to scrolls.
The amount of "options entirely closed off to wizards" is what? Bloodline arcanas? Bloodline capstones? Have you even really looked at the arcanas? A good number of them are pretty.. useless. Like Rakasha, where you can add 1/2 your level to preventing enemies from Iding a spell.
When is that ever really going to come up? Against counter spellers? Seriously, if someone is going to spend their actions counter spells, they will be built around Identifying said spells. a simple Skill focus and Magical Affinity, and poof, you have +5-+10 to your ability to identify spells completely negating the bonus. Yay!
Meanwhile you have wizards who can Poof on something like +6 ac or more via the metal school.
If you want to actually go about this.. Build me a sorcerer that is well conceived that is able to have a niche bigger than dung flavored cheetohs and I'll see if I can fill that ninche with a wizard and do it better.
In other words if we ignore everything that a wizard can do, and limit him by saying things like "wizards have to spend money and that makes them a sucky caster", then ignore that wizards have a larger amount of spell providing a greater flexability, and ignore the various things that a wizard could actually do..
Then we could say that sorcerer have a "niche" But their niche is still limited to practically nothing. Maybe not as bad as dung flavored cheetohs, but still relatively small.
However that is a large amount of ignoring that needs to be done for a class that is practically based on creating magic items and then using them. Would be like ignore that fighters use weapons to compare the damage between a rogue and a fighter.
Sorcerers are better at spontaneous casting in combat. Wizards are better at it outside of combat. Remember, wizards can leave spell slots open to put spells into throughout the day - heck, UM gave them a feat that makes this easier then ever!
The problem is, there are far more "one spell solves all" spells for combat then there is for outside of combat. The wizard just has to keep a few of the more potent and versatile combat spells memorized and leave his spell slots open for what's needed throughout the day.
In other words, in almost all occasions, wizards are better at spontaneous casting.
I feel the ability to leave slots open to fill as you go is often either ignored or pushed aside. Don't! It's easily the wizard's most potent ability. The sorcerer has 4-5 spells he can cast at will. The wizard has every spell in his spell book. And that's why each new spell in the game increases the wizard's power.
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In my games, the sorcerers - or "channelers" as they are called in the game world - work very differently than in RAW. My fixes are as follows:
1) They can wear light armor.
2) They use Spell Points instead of spell slots, therefore they essentially gain most metamagic feats for free; they just pay an increased spell cost in spell points.
3) They get 4 skill points per level.
4) Most of the bloodlines are reworked and they get an eldritch blast similar to 3.5 warlock.
That's not entirely true. Sorcerers are better at UMD. Sorcerers can apply metamagic on the fly without spending part of their WBL on a rod. Sorcerers, with the Arcane bloodline, can even get a familiar who is very capable with UMD. Sorcerers can cast certain spells (such as Charm and Planer Binding) better than Wizards.
Applying metamagic on the fly is possible, but pretty bad for sorcerers. Standard action or less is increased to a full round. Full round is increased to two full rounds. This applies even when using a rod.
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It's got down sides in combat for Sorcerers. Outside of combat, a Sorcerer being able to, for example, spontaneously create a silent, still illusion or charm is pretty nice.
It's even nicer for the Wizard who leaves a slot open and just asks the party to, '... Gimme a minute here guys...' to prepare it... you know, being out of combat at the time and all... ;)
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Sorcerers are better at spontaneous casting in combat. Wizards are better at it outside of combat. Remember, wizards can leave spell slots open to put spells into throughout the day - heck, UM gave them a feat that makes this easier then ever!
The problem is, there are far more "one spell solves all" spells for combat then there is for outside of combat. The wizard just has to keep a few of the more potent and versatile combat spells memorized and leave his spell slots open for what's needed throughout the day.
In other words, in almost all occasions, wizards are better at spontaneous casting.
I feel the ability to leave slots open to fill as you go is often either ignored or pushed aside. Don't! It's easily the wizard's most potent ability. The sorcerer has 4-5 spells he can cast at will. The wizard has every spell in his spell book. And that's why each new spell in the game increases the wizard's power.
LOL, to do that trick you need a fresh mind, so no spellcasting or any serious action for the last hour, plus the time needed to memorize the new spell (I don't see crowds of wizards taking that new feat, if you have the extra hour to get your "fresh mind" you have the 15 or so minutes to fill your empty slots).
Add that to do that trick you have gimped the number of available spells to keep those slots open. You don't get the free time to re-memorize or you need the spells now and not later? Too bad, they aren't there.
You guys are too used to PC gaming. 15 minutes adventuring day then rest to recover all the spells.
Wizards can take a bonus feat that lets them prep spells in 1 minute now.
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That's not entirely true. Sorcerers are better at UMD. Sorcerers can apply metamagic on the fly without spending part of their WBL on a rod. Sorcerers, with the Arcane bloodline, can even get a familiar who is very capable with UMD. Sorcerers can cast certain spells (such as Charm and Planer Binding) better than Wizards.Applying metamagic on the fly is possible, but pretty bad for sorcerers. Standard action or less is increased to a full round. Full round is increased to two full rounds. This applies even when using a rod.
For Your Information, as the two thing are often mistaken:
A full round casting time is not the same thing as 1 round casting time
The full round spell is cast and take effect the same round and the caster can move 5' before or after casting it.
It is the same thing as doing a full attack.
Sorcerers are better at spontaneous casting in combat. Wizards are better at it outside of combat. Remember, wizards can leave spell slots open to put spells into throughout the day - heck, UM gave them a feat that makes this easier then ever!
The problem is, there are far more "one spell solves all" spells for combat then there is for outside of combat. The wizard just has to keep a few of the more potent and versatile combat spells memorized and leave his spell slots open for what's needed throughout the day.
In other words, in almost all occasions, wizards are better at spontaneous casting.
I feel the ability to leave slots open to fill as you go is often either ignored or pushed aside. Don't! It's easily the wizard's most potent ability. The sorcerer has 4-5 spells he can cast at will. The wizard has every spell in his spell book. And that's why each new spell in the game increases the wizard's power.
LOL, to do that trick you need a fresh mind, so no spellcasting or any serious action for the last hour, plus the time needed to memorize the new spell (I don't see crowds of wizards taking that new feat, if you have the extra hour to get your "fresh mind" you have the 15 or so minutes to fill your empty slots).
Add that to do that trick you have gimped the number of available spells to keep those slots open. You don't get the free time to re-memorize or you need the spells now and not later? Too bad, they aren't there.
You guys are too used to PC gaming. 15 minutes adventuring day then rest to recover all the spells.
First off, I don't recall reading anything stating you needed to wait an hour before memorizing spells after casting one...? Enlighten me.
Second off, the feat allows you to memorize in a minute rather then 15 (and 15 minutes rather then an hour when you prepare in the morning).
Third off, it's cool if wizards don't take the new feat, but that doesn't change how powerful it and wizards are. That's like saying sorcerers are awful because they just choose to learn level 1 spells every level.
Fourthly, they aren't gimping anything. How many spells does a wizard really need in a battle? 3? 4? At the highest, maybe 5 or 6? Fun fact: wizards have a lot of spell slots, and specialist wizards have almost if not just as many as sorcerers do.
Lastly I don't even know what your last sentence means.
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Lastly I don't even know what your last sentence means.You guys are too used to PC gaming. 15 minutes adventuring day then rest to recover all the spells.
That most of the complains are born by the habit of having a very short adventuring day where the spellcasters that need to prepare spells can use half of them to boost themselves and friend and the other half in a couple of encounters that happens while the boosting spells last. then the group stop and rest to be ready for the next day.
That way the characters that can go "nova" for a short time shine while those build for better endurance, like the spontaneous spellcasters with the larger number of lower level spells or the meele combatant builds constructed around lasting power don't get into the spotlight.
If instead the "adventuring day" effectively last a day the capability to recast any of the 1 or 10 minute/level spells become more important.
Same thing for the ability to cast multiple times your choice attack spells. If you need to cast them 2 times in a day the wizard get the advantage. If you need them in multiple encounters the sorcerer has the advantage.
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I think that, while the problem isn't nearly as big as some people make it out to be; one thing that makes it bigger is that while the wizard gets a few spells, abilities, and feats specifically to combat the weaknesses imherent in his spellcasting mechanics (the necessity to have spells pre-prepared), the sorcerer largely doesn't get anything comparable to combat the weaknesses of her spellcasting mechanics (the limited number of spells known).Like the favoured class option for humans?
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Like Expanded arcana?
The favored class option is good, but it basically means that the only really racial option for sorcerers is human.
Expanded Arcana is pretty weak compared to the comparable options for wizards.
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Preparing Wizard Spells
A wizard's level limits the number of spells he can prepare and cast. His high Intelligence score might allow him to prepare a few extra spells. He can prepare the same spell more than once, but each preparation counts as one spell toward his daily limit. To prepare a spell, the wizard must have an Intelligence score of at least 10 + the spell's level.
Rest: To prepare his daily spells, a wizard must first sleep for 8 hours. The wizard does not have to slumber for every minute of the time, but he must refrain from movement, combat, spellcasting, skill use, conversation, or any other fairly demanding physical or mental task during the rest period. If his rest is interrupted, each interruption adds 1 hour to the total amount of time he has to rest in order to clear his mind, and he must have at least 1 hour of uninterrupted rest immediately prior to preparing his spells. If the character does not need to sleep for some reason, he still must have 8 hours of restful calm before preparing any spells.
When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, he can repeat the preparation process as often as he likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.
Most of the people I know interpreter the 2 quoted parts as:
- you need a fresh mind to memorize spells, even in empty spell slots and a fresh mind require at least 1 hour of rest.
Re-reading them I see how it is possible to interpreter them differently.
There is no official ruling on this AFAIK in Pathfinder (it existed in 3.5 but that is not relevant beside the legacy effect).
Probably worth adding to the list of things in need of clarification by Howe23.
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I think that, while the problem isn't nearly as big as some people make it out to be; one thing that makes it bigger is that while the wizard gets a few spells, abilities, and feats specifically to combat the weaknesses imherent in his spellcasting mechanics (the necessity to have spells pre-prepared), the sorcerer largely doesn't get anything comparable to combat the weaknesses of her spellcasting mechanics (the limited number of spells known).Like the favoured class option for humans?
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Like Expanded arcana?The favored class option is good, but it basically means that the only really racial option for sorcerers is human.
Expanded Arcana is pretty weak compared to the comparable options for wizards.
a) I have no problem in expanding the favored class option to the other races. After the cat is out of the bag it is only logic to put all races on the same footing.
b) Care to explain to what wizard options you are comparing the expanded arcana? It seen at least equivalent if not better than elditch heritage.
That most of the complains are born by the habit of having a very short adventuring day where the spellcasters that need to prepare spells can use half of them to boost themselves and friend and the other half in a couple of encounters that happens while the boosting spells last. then the group stop and rest to be ready for the next day.
That way the characters that can go "nova" for a short time shine while those build for better endurance, like the spontaneous spellcasters with the larger number of lower level spells or the meele combatant builds constructed around lasting power don't get into the spotlight.
If instead the "adventuring day" effectively last a day the capability to recast any of the 1 or 10 minute/level spells become more important.
Same thing for the ability to cast multiple times your choice attack spells. If you need to cast them 2 times in a day the wizard get the advantage. If you need them in multiple encounters the sorcerer has the advantage.
I think I see what he's saying now.
I largely disagree!
Wizards if anything are incredibly effective at keeping the "adventuring day" long because they can memorize spells on the go. Encounter <obstacle> that you have no way around? The sorcerer shrugs and goes "Eh, what can you do." The wizard, on the other hand, can then memorize that spell.
Divine casters can't do that. If they need a different spell, it's camping time! It's wizards that pull the day out to be longer, not vice versa.
Here's the thing - there are enough attack spells that are "super effective" on just about everything. You don't need four different types of acid arrow - you just need one web and one glitter dust. And, by and large, fights do not drain a whole lot of spell slots. That means you don't need to fill up all your spell slots with attack spells in the morning.
I have, far, far more often seen the sorcerer go to sleep with lots of spells left over simply because he didn't have chances to use them then I've seen wizards do so. And they aren't camping because the wizard needs spell slots, either.
...And even if they were, the wizard is the one that can throw out a Rope Trick for them to sleep in with ease.
Or their proper names, Arcane Cheese and Greater Arcane Cheese. :) For a game where spellcasters apparently did not dominate enough.
I only laid claim to knowing the way to the lake.
I never said whether it was drinkable or not. ;)
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Wizards if anything are incredibly effective at keeping the "adventuring day" long because they can memorize spells on the go. Encounter <obstacle> that you have no way around? The sorcerer shrugs and goes "Eh, what can you do." The wizard, on the other hand, can then memorize that spell.
Curious how these wizards always have open slots of the right level and always have the right spell in their spellbook. And how the sorcerers always lack the right spell.
Sure, if you play mostly a land bound series of adventures and you need water breathing the wizard could have it in his spellbook while it is improbable than the sorcerer will have it in his list of spell know. On the other hand it is fairly probable that the sorcerer will have Phlymorph as it is a spell with multiple uses and to be capable of casting it enough times to resolve the problem for the whole party while it is improbable for a wizard to have memorized it multiple times.
A question to you and the other "sorcerer are weak" people.
At what level you stop playing? I can see how the extra low level spells can be of little interest till you are up to level 8 or 10, but when you start to have 1 more level of spell 1 to 5 than the wizard even if he get to level 6th spells before you the difference isn't terrific, and at the even levels you are neatly ahead.
Wizards if anything are incredibly effective at keeping the "adventuring day" long because they can memorize spells on the go. Encounter <obstacle> that you have no way around? The sorcerer shrugs and goes "Eh, what can you do." The wizard, on the other hand, can then memorize that spell.
Curious how these wizards always have open slots of the right level and always have the right spell in their spellbook. And how the sorcerers always lack the right spell.
Sure, if you play mostly a land bound series of adventures and you need water breathing the wizard could have it in his spellbook while it is improbable than the sorcerer will have it in his list of spell know. On the other hand it is fairly probable that the sorcerer will have Phlymorph as it is a spell with multiple uses and to be capable of casting it enough times to resolve the problem for the whole party while it is improbable for a wizard to have memorized it multiple times.
A question to you and the other "sorcerer are weak" people.
At what level you stop playing? I can see how the extra low level spells can be of little interest till you are up to level 8 or 10, but when you start to have 1 more level of spell 1 to 5 than the wizard even if he get to level 6th spells before you the difference isn't terrific, and at the even levels you are neatly ahead.
My mages *always* keep at least one slot of each level (except cantrips) open for just such an emergency; the ability to prep a much needed spell is huge, IMO. In addition, I usually keep those vital-but-rarely-needed spells on scrolls, just in case.
Curious how these wizards always have open slots of the right level and always have the right spell in their spellbook. And how the sorcerers always lack the right spell.
Because they're good at being wizards, and because sorcerers are by mechanic limited. There's no reason a good wizard wouldn't grab any potential spell and shove it into his spellbook - and a good wizard leaves slots open for just in case.
Sure, if you play mostly a land bound series of adventures and you need water breathing the wizard could have it in his spellbook while it is improbable than the sorcerer will have it in his list of spell know. On the other hand it is fairly probable that the sorcerer will have Phlymorph as it is a spell with multiple uses and to be capable of casting it enough times to resolve the problem for the whole party while it is improbable for a wizard to have memorized it multiple times.
You uh...you realize the wizard can memorize it for as many slots as needed?
And that the wizard also has polymorph?
Your example illustrates it perfectly. The sorcerer takes the most versatile spells he can and thus has one (high level) spell he can hopefully cast enough. The wizard has a multitude of spells that can work and just needs enough spell slots.
At what level you stop playing? I can see how the extra low level spells can be of little interest till you are up to level 8 or 10, but when you start to have 1 more level of spell 1 to 5 than the wizard even if he get to level 6th spells before you the difference isn't terrific, and at the even levels you are neatly ahead.
Getting 6th level spells before you is gigantic for that level. Wizards get that bonus 8 times.
And again, you are drastically overselling the number of spell slots sorcerers have compared to specialist wizards. Let's use your level - level 11, when wizards get level 6 spells and sorcerer's don't. Sorcerers will have 4 level 5 slots, wizards only have 2. That's a lot!
...Except we're a specialist wizard because we're good at being a wizard, so that's three compared to 4. Not so big of a difference.
But wait, we have level 6 spells now, so that's two more - one level 6 slot, and one specialist level 6 slot. End result? The wizard has more spell slots then the sorcerer does.
This carries on for the whole career. A sorcerer has one slot more then the specialist wizard, but the wizard has more higher level slots then the sorcerer does every other level. On top of that the wizard can use a pearl of power to now equal the number of slots the sorcerer has.
The problem is that wizards have a means of making up for every disadvantage they have. Not enough spell slots? Pearls of power! Specialize! Not enough versatility? Memorize throughout the day! UM has made this only more abhorrent with the hilariously powerful wizard only feats. What, taking too long to memorize spells as you go? Solved! Tired of having downsides that you have to trade in for all the goodness that comes with specialization? Solved! Tired of sorcerers beating you at planar binding? Solved, solved, solved!
But hey, look on the bright side. Sorcerers get another bloodline with a bunch of abilities they probably won't use and some feats they'll never need.