And I suppose you are also going to say that the Wizards and Druids were all just myths and make believe too? Oh please, give me a break!
And yet it's so much fun to throw this at PCs from other classes who were brought up (in the game world) thinking all the Myths were real....
Mwahahahahahaaaaaaaaaa!
TL:DC
And the point of this thread was... What? Is it in favor of more fantastic classes, against it, just to prove that you have once read a book and you think you are smarter than everybody else, or what? I'm honestly confused.
Actually cowboys had laser cuff weapons and fought alien invasions. I mean really! Educate yourself.
Pirates: Incorrect. The most famed pirates were often working for other governments against merchant ships of enemy governments to control trade in the Carribean. Their government funded and loot funded ships were some of the best and well maintained during that era. Other pirate ships would often be hired for a good amount of money to perform the same sort of thing. The golden age of piracy was really a cold war, when anyone with a ship and a name could make a good profit via war profiteering.
Samurai: Ritual suicide has been held as a tradition in Japan since forever. Suicide in Japan is not held as undesirable-in fact, it is considered incredibly beneficial and a way to "save face" and uphold the family's honor.
Our culture suffers a severe disconnect when coming to understand Japanese culture-the Japanese value community over individuality, and do not hold the same religious beliefs that we do. The stigma against suicide is not the same there as it is here.
Merlin, King Author, his knights, etc, were actual people who lived in what is now England at around 500 BC. There are facts and cannot be disputed...
Knights
-The Myth: A noble warrior sworn to uphold the tenants of chivalry. He protected the innocent, granted mercy to his enemies, refused to attack an unarmed man, and was always courteous to the ladyfolk. The knight was his lord's champion, defending the crown with honor and resolve.
-The Reality: Knights were very often thugs with the weapons, manpower, and legal authority to keep serfs (aka slaves) in line. That whole "chivalry" thing? A quaint bit of nonsense. Knights arose in Europe's Dark Ages when centralized governments had largely collapsed. The land's rulers needed a way to keep peasants in line, and the result was feudalism. A knight would battle his lord's enemies, true, but he may also rape and pillage that same lord's own people. It all depended on the knight in question.
-Why the Disconnect: The whole King Arthur fairy tale had a lot to do with it, I'm sure. The Canterbury Tales didn't help either.
I am going to disagree with you about this one, just a bit.
In the early part of the dark ages, yes, what you describe is - unfortunately - too often correct.
However, Chivalry was more real at that time (and is today) then you might believe.
The so called "Code of Chivalry" was created by the Church to try to reign in the armored brutes that you describe above. And, you might be surprized to find that it was successful more often then not.
(Of course, the resergence of the central government under Charlemagne might also have been a factor - And he also needed to reign in these same armored men. Encoraging noblemen to act chivalrously was a useful tool.)
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You don't have to be an anthropologist to know that humans love a good tall tale. Over time, though, a strange thing can happen - people repeat the tall tale so often that they come to accept it as fact. And so the purpose of this post: to list groups of people who have, through no fault of their own, become so overshadowed by exaggerations and myths that what most of us "know" about them is complete bunk.Cowboys
-The Myth: Gunslinging outlaws who tamed the Wild West. Some were degenerate criminals while others were vigilantes fighting for justice.
-The Reality: Cowboys were ranch workers. Theirs was a physically demanding profession that didn't pay well, and certainly didn't allow for enough free time to single-handedly "tame" a territory as vast as the American West. Oh, and the American West was no where near as "wild" as cowboy mythology would have us believe.
-Why the Disconnect: The Western movie genre was, for decades, an enormous franchise. Thanks to the Lone Ranger, countless Clint Eastwood movies, and the dreams of an entire generation of little boys, the cowboy of legend now bears almost no resemblance to the cowboy of history.
I counter with:
Bloody Newton Kansas
The famous Chisholm Trail gave us the reputation, "Bloody Newton, the wickedest town in the West." The Atchinson, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway established a railhead for Texas cattle at Newton in 1872. Gunslingers, gamblers, "soiled doves," cowboys, railroad men; Denizens of every kind roamed the streets.
When the cowboys moved west, homesteaders turned the surrounding prairie into the "Breadbasket of the World." The area boasts one of the largest Mennonite populations in the country. Visitors will find warmhearted, courteous, and friendly people in Newton, well-known for their graciousness and good cooking.
Western hospitality and the rugged pioneer spirit live on in our festivals, attractions, and historical sites. At Trails Park, one can still see the swales created from trailing over a million Texas Longhorn cattle and tons of freight.
From the earliest beginnings in 1871 to 1873 Newton came to be known as "bloody and lawless—the wickedest city in the west." This reputation was much due to the 1871 Gunfight at Hide Park, which ultimately resulted in 8 men being killed before, during and after the incident. In 1872 the western terminal for the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway and the railhead for the Chisholm Trail were established here. Shortly after incorporation of the City in 1872, the Newton city council passed an ordinance prohibiting the running at large of buffalo and other wild animals.
The incident began with an argument between two local lawmen, Billy Bailey and Mike McCluskie. The two men began arguing on August 11, 1871, over local politics on election day in the "Red Front Saloon", located in downtown Newton. The argument developed into a fist fight, with Bailey being knocked outside the saloon and into the street. McCluskie followed, drawing his pistol. He fired two shots at Bailey, hitting him with the second shot in the chest. Bailey died the next day, on August 12, 1871. McCluskie fled town to avoid arrest, but was only away for a few days before returning, after receiving information that the shooting would most likely be deemed self defense, despite the fact that Bailey never produced a weapon. McCluskie had claimed he feared for his life, having known that in three previous gunfights, Bailey had killed two men.
Bailey, a native of Texas, had several cowboy friends who were in town. Upon hearing of his death, they vowed revenge against McCluskie. On August 19, 1871, McCluskie entered Newton and went to gamble at "Tuttles Dance Hall", located in an area of town called Hide Park. He was accompanied by a friend, Jim Martin. As McCluskie settled into gambling, three cowboys entered the saloon. They were Billy Garrett, Henry Kearnes, and Jim Wilkerson, all friends to Bailey. Billy Garrett had been in at least two prior gunfights, killing two men.
Hugh Anderson, the son of a wealthy Bell County, Texas cattle rancher, also entered, and approached McCluskie, calling him a coward and threatening his life. Jim Martin jumped up and attempted to stop a fight from occurring.
Anderson shot McCluskie in the neck, knocking him to the floor. McCluskie attempted to shoot Anderson, but his pistol misfired. Anderson then stood over him and shot him several times in the back.
Kearns, Garrett, and Wilkerson also began firing, perhaps to keep the crowd back, and may have shot McCluskie in the leg. At that point a young man, believed to have been around 18 years of age at the time, named James Riley, opened fire on them.
Riley was dying from tuberculosis, and had been taken in by McCluskie shortly after arriving in Newton. Riley had never been involved in a gunfight before, but only Anderson still had a loaded pistol to return fire. Some accounts say Riley locked the saloon doors before shooting, but this seems unlikely. The room was filled with smoke from all the prior gunfire, and visibility was bad. Riley ended up hitting seven men.
Jim Martin, the would-be peacemaker, was shot in the neck and later died of his wound. Garrett, Kearns, and a bystander named Patrick Lee were also mortally wounded. Anderson, Wilkerson, and another bystander were wounded but survived.
With both guns empty and all his opponents down, Riley walked away and was never seen again. Legend has it he left the area and began a new life elsewhere. However, due to his ill physical state, it is more likely he died not long afterward under an assumed name. Either way, he disappeared.
A warrant was issued for Anderson for killing McCluskie. He left Kansas by train and settled in Texas to recover from his wounds.
On July 4, 1873, McCluskie's brother, Arthur McCluskie, located Anderson. A brutal fight ensued with both men shooting each other several times, then going after each other with knives. Neither survived.
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Knights
-The Myth: A noble warrior sworn to uphold the tenants of chivalry. He protected the innocent, granted mercy to his enemies, refused to attack an unarmed man, and was always courteous to the ladyfolk. The knight was his lord's champion, defending the crown with honor and resolve.
-The Reality: Knights were very often thugs with the weapons, manpower, and legal authority to keep serfs (aka slaves) in line. That whole "chivalry" thing? A quaint bit of nonsense. Knights arose in Europe's Dark Ages when centralized governments had largely collapsed. The land's rulers needed a way to keep peasants in line, and the result was feudalism. A knight would battle his lord's enemies, true, but he may also rape and pillage that same lord's own people. It all depended on the knight in question.
-Why the Disconnect: The whole King Arthur fairy tale had a lot to do with it, I'm sure. The Canterbury Tales didn't help either.
I am going to disagree with you about this one, just a bit.
In the early part of the dark ages, yes, what you describe is - unfortunately - too often correct.
However, Chivalry was more real at that time (and is today) then you might believe.
The so called "Code of Chivalry" was created by the Church to try to reign in the armored brutes that you describe above. And, you might be surprized to find that it was successful more often then not.
(Of course, the resergence of the central government under Charlemagne might also have been a factor - And he also needed to reign in these same armored men. Encoraging noblemen to act chivalrously was a useful tool.)
Speaking of Disconnect:
The funny thing is there is less and less support for the term "Dark Ages." The term came about because of biased writings from various sources like Protestants (anti-Catholic) and Age of Reformation (anti-religion). These sources used their publications to smear that particular time of European history as backward and terrible when there was plenty of science and advances being made.Oh and while I agree that pirates have been too romanticized, they were examples of some pretty amazing things as well. They were some of the first signs of democracy with the election of their captain and other officers. They pooled money for wounded shipmates. They also had a fairer system of earning their money.
In comparison to the British, they were heroic! I read a book on the British navy recently, talk about villainous...
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The concept of a Dark Age originated with the Italian scholar Petrarch (Francesco Petrarca) in the 1330s, and was originally intended as a sweeping criticism of the character of Late Latin literature. Petrarch regarded the post-Roman centuries as "dark" compared to the light of classical antiquity. Later historians expanded the term to refer to the transitional period between Roman times and the High Middle Ages (c. 11th–13th century), including not only the lack of Latin literature, but also a lack of contemporary written history, general demographic decline, limited building activity and material cultural achievements in general. The term "Dark Age" itself derives from the Latin saeculum obscurum, applied by Caesar Baronius in 1602 to a tumultuous period in the 10th and 11th century. Later historians and writers picked up the concept, and popular culture has further expanded on it as a vehicle to depict the Middle Ages as a time of backwardness, extending its pejorative use and expanding its scope.
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I counter with:
Bloody Newton Kansas
There are definitely going to be cases of violence from that era. My point is that the "Wild West" was, overall, a fairly tame place. Some stats:
-Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.
-In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.A quote from here:
"In spite of these specific incidents of violence, the lawlessness of the Wild West has been blown out of proportion. Ironically, the myth of the lawless West began before the period was over. Dime novels written in the East in the latter part of the 19th century exaggerated, or simply made up, stories about the crimes and criminals of the West."
Oh yes it was blown way out of proportion, most of the time. Dime novels and "wild west" shows were to blame for it, then the romanticized westerns. Be it TV, Radio, or even some modern movies. My point is though, it did at times happen.
Heck I live in Wichita, where deputy Wyatt Berry Stapp Earp would walk across the bridge to Delano to tick off some drunk cattleman. The drunk cattle man would follow Earp back across the Douglas Bridge back into his jurisdiction so that Earp could pistol whip him and throw him in jail for drunk and disorderly. Earp was known to have increased city revenue.
Wichita also had the honor of being the place where William Henry McCarty was raised. His mother having been a founder of the city and I believe the only female to have singed the charter. Billy went on to much notoriety on New Mexico, and many stories simply not true surrounded the Kid.
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That's hilarious, what a bada%%.
Heck I live in Wichita, where deputy Wyatt Berry Stapp Earp would walk across the bridge to Delano to tick off some drunk cattleman. The drunk cattle man would follow Earp back across the Douglas Bridge back into his jurisdiction so that Earp could pistol whip him and throw him in jail for drunk and disorderly. Earp was known to have increased city revenue.
the historical museum has several news stories and such about him and things of this nature. He was eventually "asked" to leave.
That I didn't know, thanks for the info. I did know that pirates were a fairly egalitarian bunch, and sometimes even included womenfolk in their ranks (Mary Reid, Anne Bonny, etc).
Well, sort of. Both Mary and Anne posed as men. None of the crew knew they were women except them and Captain Jack Rackham. However, at first he only knew one was a woman (I think it was Mary, but been awhile since I read the book about them) and was dating her. Then, he saw her spending alot of time with this other sailor and almost killed them for cheating before the other woman admitted to him she was a woman also. After that, they weren't quite as secretive about their gender.
Knights
-Why the Disconnect: The whole King Arthur fairy tale had a lot to do with it, I'm sure. The Canterbury Tales didn't help either.
Have you even read The Canterbury Tales? That's the last piece of literature you should point to as reinforcing cultural myths. Chaucer's tales are filled with social critique and satire.
Stop enforcing reality on my mythos ya commie bastard.
Helping my buddy JMD031: Everything you know is wrong.
Helping my buddy JMD031: Everything you know is wrong.
Why did they move my thread? :-(
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Helping my buddy JMD031: Everything you know is wrong.Why did they move my thread? :-(
Because you knew it would be staying where you put it and, well ...
Because you knew it would be staying where you put it and, well ...Helping my buddy JMD031: Everything you know is wrong.Why did they move my thread? :-(
That kinda of makes sense. A terrible, twisted kind of sense, but sense nonetheless.
+Ωφ,ε = Σp ∈ Ε|p↓ 2-len(p)
To be fair, chivalry totally existed in the Dark Ages.
...Just not with European knights.
Chivalry - and many ideas and laws of morality and governing - came out of interactions with the incredibly powerful Islamic Caliphate. The Islamic Golden Age is a period of history that is tragically skipped in most forms of western education much to our detriment.
Cowboys
-The Myth: Gunslinging outlaws who tamed the Wild West. Some were degenerate criminals while others were vigilantes fighting for justice.
-The Reality: Cowboys were ranch workers. Theirs was a physically demanding profession that didn't pay well, and certainly didn't allow for enough free time to single-handedly "tame" a territory as vast as the American West. Oh, and the American West was no where near as "wild" as cowboy mythology would have us believe.
-Why the Disconnect: The Western movie genre was, for decades, an enormous franchise. Thanks to the Lone Ranger, countless Clint Eastwood movies, and the dreams of an entire generation of little boys, the cowboy of legend now bears almost no resemblance to the cowboy of history.
This part I had spot on! :woot:
Also, they were not even cows, they were humans.