Improved Familliar (Faerie Dragon or Silvanshee Agathion?)

[Quirken]

I'm rolling a level 15 magus character for a campaign I'm in. I'm planning on taking a familiar using one of the magus arcana, and then the improved familiar feat.

I can't make up my mind between two familiars. Links and what I see as the "big" differences:

Faerie Dragon:

• AC higher by 3
  
• immune to paralysis, sleep
  
• greater invisibility, grease, silent image, sleep, dancing lights, flare, ghost sound, mage hand, open/close
  
• languages: common, draconic, elven, sylvan, telepathy 100ft
  

Silvanshee Agathion

• DR/5evil or silver
  
• immune electricity, petrification, resist cold 10
  
• land speed is 20ft faster, air speed 30ft faster
  
• commune, dimension door, know direction, speak with animals, dancing lights, prestidigitation, stabilize
  
• adds CHA to saves, can share 1/day for 10min
  
• can gaseous form but keep DR, abilities, and speed 5min/day
  
• languages: celestrial, draconic, infernal, speak with animals, truespeech
  

All in all, it sounds like the Silvanshee is better. That DR probably makes a decent difference, it's faster, and can turn to gas, which would make it really useful as a spy.

Then again, the dragon has a host of extremely useful spell-like abilities / sorcerer spells.

Recommendations? I've perused through a number of threads similar to this one: but haven't found much about what people think of the silvanshee.

[LizardMage]

Shocker Lizard for the win! No one expects to see the Shocker Lizard!

Though if you are dead set on one of the other two, go dragon. Spells will be handy.

[Quirken]

LizardMage wrote:

Shocker Lizard for the win! No one expects to see the Shocker Lizard!

Though if you are dead set on one of the other two, go dragon. Spells will be handy.

The only thing I'm truly set on is a fly speed (and improved familiar). Those two just looked like the most interesting of the lot.

Where is this "Shocker lizard"? I don't see it on the D20PFSRD, which I think means it's not in the core, bestiary I/II/bonus? (I found it in 3.5 stuff, but not PF. In any case, it looks like you'd take shocker lizard exclusively for the 2d8 shock damage. While good, the DC is only 12, and it wouldn't have much other utility, far as I see.)

Earth elementals look kinda interesting because of earth glide, but they don't really get anything else

[Pawn512]

I'd check out the Lyrakien (B2). Lots of good stuff. Standouts are at-will DC 15 daze and CHA 20 (great for UMD). Have to be chaotic good.

[Landon Winkler]

The Lyrakien does sound like a pretty solid option. Permanent detect evil, detect magic, freedom of movement, and tongues (through truespeech) are pretty nice. And, who knows, wiping exhaustion and fatigue might even help at some point. That said, she's not quite as good of a scout.

For scouting's sake, I'd take the Silvanshee Agathion. Five minutes of gaseous form, one dimension door (480'), and faster flight beat out nine rounds of invisibility and open/close.

Honestly, I'd take whichever your character would want. If your character wants to blend in, nobody will blink at your Silvanshee. But if your character wants to be the center of attention, the dragon will bring that in spades. If your character's a wanderer, the Lyrakien is a great bet (both for it's nature and its music washing away weariness).

Cheers!
Landon

[Interzone]

+1 to the Lyrakien, definitely my favourite improved familiar... if you are set on one of those two though, I would go with the Silvanshee.
Not 100% sure if it is better in mechanical terms, but way cooler in my opinion :D

[Firest]

Both are good options mechanically, so what it's going to come down to is your character concept.

Take the magic cat if you want a familiar that will either play into the traditional image of a competent, mysterious mage or fade into the background if your PC is trying to be subtle.

Take the half pseudo-dragon/half butterfly if your PC is trying to look FABULOUSSSS!!!

[STR Ranger]

What about combat applications?

A memphit can buff the melees (enlarge person), protect from summons (protection from evil), throw down some b/c(grease)

Is the cat so good it's worth not having thumbs (lay on hands is cool)? I can't see it contributing to combat as much as a mephit/imp with the right wands.

[LazarX]

The Silvanshee also has the advantage of being part of a superior species... Cat. :)

[Umbral Reaver]

About that lyriaken...

Is it lawful for a wizard to marry his (or her, if you're that way inclined) familiar?

Oh wait, you're chaotic! :P

Screw the rules. Love your celestial pixie girl. A constant companion in soul, heart and magic. Ignore all those uppity wizards that say the familiar must be subordinate. You're adventuring together.

:D

[Thefurmonger]

If your not dead set on one of those two may I present the best improved famillier hands down. The Carbuncle

[LilithsThrall]

Umbral Reaver wrote:

About that lyriaken...

Is it lawful for a wizard to marry his (or her, if you're that way inclined) familiar?

Oh wait, you're chaotic! :P

Screw the rules. Love your celestial pixie girl. A constant companion in soul, heart and magic. Ignore all those uppity wizards that say the familiar must be subordinate. You're adventuring together.

:D

Reminds me of the tv show Archer and the scientist with an Anime fetish

[Quirken]

STR Ranger wrote:

What about combat applications?

A memphit can buff the melees (enlarge person), protect from summons (protection from evil), throw down some b/c(grease)

Is the cat so good it's worth not having thumbs (lay on hands is cool)? I can't see it contributing to combat as much as a mephit/imp with the right wands.

(F.y.i. I'm not just trying to be stuck in my ways or shoot every idea down. I hope it doesn't come across that way. I honestly don't see the advantage of some of these familiars, outside of niche circumstances, things other party members can usually do when they come up. I guess that could be said about ANY familiar. Never had one before so the possibilities are really not things I comprehend yet)

I guess I'm less interested in combat applications of a familiar than I am with just general utility out of combat. It boils down to us already having a pretty strong party and my role would likely be more one of tank. That and I don't want my action economy to make my turns last way longer than anyone else's.

Enlarge person is good, but increasing my damage die wouldn't make me do THAT much more damage, and when you consider my current primary stats are STR26 and INT28, I have a fair bit of raw melee damage to begin with (and high spell DCs). The other party members could perhaps use it, but we have two major min-maxers (which the DM is going to get them to tone it down), a powerful wizard, a cleric, and a monk. (Also a sentient floating book that casts spells...)

Far as the Lyrakien goes... the exhaustion/fatigue thing is definitely rock solid, but we can already handle that when it happens (which isn't that often). The daze and UMD are good, but my UMD is going to be maxed (planning on using the magus wand wielder/mastery arcanas), so I'm not sure how important that really is (never had a familiar before)

The cat not having thumbs... that could be a significant concern. Wands are nice.

The "figure out which your character would want" is good advice, but I always figure out the mechanics of my character first and then put together a backstory that fits it. So I don't know yet whether my character loves attention or not. Given his high strength (26) and comparatively low dex (16) and the fact he's decked out in full plate, he's probably not trying to be inconspicuous, though...

[LazarX]

Quirken wrote:

The cat not having thumbs... that could be a significant concern. Wands are nice.

The "figure out which your character would want" is good advice, but I...

I'm not convinced of the legality of familliars firing off wands.

[Sayer_of_Nay]

LazarX wrote:

Quirken wrote:

The cat not having thumbs... that could be a significant concern. Wands are nice.

The "figure out which your character would want" is good advice, but I...

I'm not convinced of the legality of familliars firing off wands.

It works by the RAW. As long as the familiar can talk and has a valid method of holding a wand, it could use UMD.

Whether it is RAI or not is debatable, and ultimately pointless conjecture; no one *really* knows what someone or a group of people intends about every aspect of the game.

[stringburka]

Sayer_of_Nay wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Quirken wrote:

The cat not having thumbs... that could be a significant concern. Wands are nice.

The "figure out which your character would want" is good advice, but I...

I'm not convinced of the legality of familliars firing off wands.

It works by the RAW. As long as the familiar can talk and has a valid method of holding a wand, it could use UMD.

Whether it is RAI or not is debatable, and ultimately pointless conjecture; no one *really* knows what someone or a group of people intends about every aspect of the game.

It's been working, and it's been common practice since 3.0. There's no logical in-game reason at all it shouldn't work. If a normal imp can use a wand, why shouldn't a familiar imp be able to?

Since it's been so common for so long, you'd think Paizo would have mentioned if it shouldn't work in PF.