Before, Counter-spelling was a very cluncky and horrid mechanic. It just did not work out very well. With ACG and the Arcanist though, it looks Dispel Focused casters may actually be viable. Between the exploits Counterspell, Potent Magic, Spell Tinkerer, Spell Disruption, Counter Drain, Greater Spell Disruption, Siphon Spell, and Spell Thief, and the feats Distructive Spell and Dispel Synergy you can become pretty nasty at dispelling, countering, and nullifying magic.
So what are your guys thoughts on it? Could a anti-caster focused caster be viable?
For references:
arcane reservoir, the arcanist can attempt to counterspell
a spell as it is being cast. She must identify the spell being
cast as normal. If the check is successful, the arcanist can
then use an immediate action and expend an available
arcanist spell slot of a level at least one higher than the
level of the spell being cast. To counterspell the spell, the
arcanist must make dispel check as if using dispel magic.
If the spell being countered is one that the arcanist has
prepared, she can instead expend an available arcanist
spell slot of that level and she receives a +5 bonus on the
dispel check.
one use of her arcane reservoir to increase the caster
level of a spell, the caster level is increased by 2 instead
of 1. Whenever she expends one point from her arcane
reservoir to increase the DC of a spell, the DC is increased
by 2 instead of 1.
spell effect by expending one point from her arcane
reservoir. She must be adjacent to the spell effect (or the
effect’s target) and be aware of the effect to use this ability.
She can choose to increase or decrease the remaining
duration of the spell by 50% (adding or subtracting 50%
from the remaining duration). This ability can be used
on unwilling targets, but the arcanist must succeed at
a melee touch attack, and the target may attempt a Will
saving throw to negate the effect. This ability cannot be
used on a given spell effect more than once. This ability
has no effect on spells that are instantaneous or have a
duration of permanent.
disrupt a spell by expending one point from her arcane
reservoir. This ability suppresses a spell effect for a
number of rounds equal to the arcanist’s Charisma
modifier (minimum 1) if she succeeds at a dispel check
against the spell (as per dispel magic). If the spell affects
multiple creatures, this ability only suppresses the spell
for one creature. At the end of this duration, the spell
resumes and the suppressed rounds do not count against
its total duration. This ability can be used on unwilling
targets, but the arcanist must succeed at a melee touch
attack, and the target may attempt a Will saving throw to
negate the effect. This ability has no effect on spells that
are instantaneous or have a duration of permanent.
counterspells a spell, the arcanist regains points to her
arcane reservoir depending on the level of the spell
countered. Spells of 2nd level or lower do not restore any
points. Spells of 3rd, 4th, and 5th level restore one point.
Spells of 6th, 7th, and 8th level restore two points. Spells
of 9th level restore three points. The arcanist must have
the counterspell exploit before selecting this exploit.
spell effect or magic item by expending one point from
her arcane reservoir. This acts like a targeted dispel magic
with a range of touch. The arcanist can add her Charisma
bonus to the dispel check. The arcanist must have the
spell disruption exploit before selecting this exploit.
spell greater exploit, she can siphon some of the power to
restore her arcane reservoir. If the caster level of the spell
is equal to or higher than the arcanist and she exceeds
the DC of the dispel check by 5 or more, she regains 1
point to her arcane reservoir. If she exceeds this check
by 10 or more, she instead regains 2 points to her arcane
reservoir. This has no effect on magic items. The arcanist
must have the greater spell disruption exploit before
selecting this exploit.
one creature by expending one point from her arcane
reservoir. If the creature is unwilling, she must succeed
at a melee touch attack to steal the spell; the target must
succeed at a Will saving throw to negate the effect. The
arcanist can specify a spell affecting the target to steal, but
if she’s incorrect or doesn’t know what spells are affecting
the target, the spell stolen is determined randomly from
all those affecting the target. If successful, the spell effect
transfers to the arcanist, affecting her for the remaining
duration. This ability doesn’t grant the arcanist a saving
throw against the effect, unless it normally allows for
a new saving throw during its duration (such as at the
end of each round). The arcanist cannot use this ability
to steal a spell with a range of personal or a duration of
permanent. The arcanist must have the spell tinkerer
exploit before selecting this exploit
I actually like the counter spell rules you see in dueling in Ultimate Magic. Works really well.
I never actually seen the rules for that. When I intially read it, it seems the rules are mainly for staged duels with rules and such (kind of like an arena match for martials) and didn't quite grab my attention (I think more of random combat)
Honestly, you can apply it to normal combat. I do.
I've always been annoyed that the best anti-magic characters were casters. Though the Barbarian makes a good effort.
Here's hoping the Slayer gets some Mage killin talents.
Hm I never thought of that :P I shoudl take a look at it.
But yeah, on the whole, it seems like the arcanist could make a very nasty "Anti-caster" type of guy. Between the exploits (and this is assuming we don't get more) and feats that pump up CL you can make a very nasty anti-mage. Having the ability to spontaniously prepare is also nice (Oh! I need this silver bullet? Ok so give me a second... Done!)
Put Anti-Magic Field on your familiar, have it fly up and pester the enemy mage while you rip away all of the enemy martial's defenses with Greater Dispel seems legit... Oh and cool thing is.. technically, it looks like the Arcanist can actually counter 2 spells a turn. 1 if he prepares an action to counter and a second by burning his ability (which eats his immediate action).
If you're interested in a non-caster anti-caster character, you should really look at the Spellbreaker archetype for the inquisitor w/ the Spellkiller inquisition. Make him/her a dwarf and take Steel Soul feat.
You start off with +4 racial bonus to saves vs. spells and SLAs... As Spellbreaker scales you end up with immunity to one school of magic and massive bonus to saves against spells/SLAs. That's not including all the normal item boosts and stats bonuses... etc.
Oh and using Ghost touch pump up your own martials buffs (use spell tinkerer to extend them by 50% longer) or stealing the enemy buffs/disrupting them seems pretty Legit...
I almost feel like teh Disrupter Caster could just become a thing... a caster (arcanist in this case) designed to be a powerful reacter and deterrent.
Why did Disruptive get nerfed so hard between 3.5 and PF anyway?I've always been annoyed that the best anti-magic characters were casters. Though the Barbarian makes a good effort.
Here's hoping the Slayer gets some Mage killin talents.
because why should martials get nice things???
I once played an... Anarchic Sorcerer, I think? Whatever the wild blood for the Protean bloodline was. Focused more on battlefield control like a pseudo-wizard due to the spread of schools I needed to pick. Ran very well as a counter-spell character, which I had set out to design with in mind. This was... Back around the release of Inner Sea Magic. Made life miserable for the casty big-bads. Especially once he started dropping wild magic zones on them.
Now that the Arcanist is out... I fully plan on playing one as a "Magic-Eater". Focus, again, on counter-spell/dispel, but be a Dhampir, for the fun of 'magic vampire!' schtick. Can't wait for ACG to see what other anti-magic things they added to make the anti-magic concept even more viable.
That said.... Yeah. Anti-mag is fairly viable as is, probably more so come the release of the ACG.... You just kinda need a GM who's willing to play ball, because they can get easily screwed over by a GM-vs-Player mentality when the enemies stop having casters....
I once played an... Anarchic Sorcerer, I think? Whatever the wild blood for the Protean bloodline was. Focused more on battlefield control like a pseudo-wizard due to the spread of schools I needed to pick. Ran very well as a counter-spell character, which I had set out to design with in mind. This was... Back around the release of Inner Sea Magic. Made life miserable for the casty big-bads. Especially once he started dropping wild magic zones on them.
Now that the Arcanist is out... I fully plan on playing one as a "Magic-Eater". Focus, again, on counter-spell/dispel, but be a Dhampir, for the fun of 'magic vampire!' schtick. Can't wait for ACG to see what other anti-magic things they added to make the anti-magic concept even more viable.
That said.... Yeah. Anti-mag is fairly viable as is, probably more so come the release of the ACG.... You just kinda need a GM who's willing to play ball, because they can get easily screwed over by a GM-vs-Player mentality when the enemies stop having casters....
Well if that is the case then you are helping your party a lot, since the most deadly enemies are those that cast spells...
Additionally, with the abilities Spell Tinkerer, (G) Spell Disruption, and siphon spell, even without fighitng casters you can be useful. You just steal any pre-existing buffs on the creatures. With (G) Dispel magic, you can target the enemy's gear and make them even easier for the party martial to take out.
Why did Disruptive get nerfed so hard between 3.5 and PF anyway?I've always been annoyed that the best anti-magic characters were casters. Though the Barbarian makes a good effort.
Here's hoping the Slayer gets some Mage killin talents.
How did it read in 3.5?
Prerequisite Spellcraft 2 ranks, base attack bonus +3
You gain a +1 bonus on Will saving throws. Spellcasters you threaten may not cast defensively (they automatically fail their Concentration checks to do so), but they are aware that they cannot cast defensively while being threatened by a character with this feat.
Special
Taking this feat reduces your caster level for all your spells and spell-like abilities by 4.