Death Ward Question

[DarkKnight27]

I'm looking for a little clarification: the Death Ward spell says, "The subject is immune to energy drain and any negative energy effects, including channeled energy." Does this mean that a character affected by Death Ward would be totally immune to a wraith's attack (both the damage witch is caused by negative energy and the Con Drain aspect of the attack) or is the subject immune to only the damage part of the attack but still needs to save for the Con Drain?

Thanks for the help.

[DarkKnight27]

Bump

[Tilnar]

DarkKnight27 wrote:

I'm looking for a little clarification: the Death Ward spell says, "The subject is immune to energy drain and any negative energy effects, including channeled energy." Does this mean that a character affected by Death Ward would be totally immune to a wraith's attack (both the damage witch is caused by negative energy and the Con Drain aspect of the attack) or is the subject immune to only the damage part of the attack but still needs to save for the Con Drain?

As written, the Con drain would still be possible and would need to be saved against (since it's ability and not energy drain). The d6, on the other hand, is right out.

[DarkKnight27]

Ok, so the Con Drain part of the attack is NOT considered a "negative energy effect" because of the way it's written. So then with a specter that does 1d8 plus energy drain the character protected by Death Ward would take the 1d8 damage from every hit but would be immune to the energy drain. And finally a shadow attacking a character protected by Death Ward would not be able to do any damage because the shadows strength drain specifically says it's a negative energy effect.

I'm just trying to make sure I understand this.

[Mojorat]

Death ward renders you totally immune to wraiths. They do 0 damage to do and thus do not have a chance to trigger the Energy Drain.

[Some call me Tim]

Mojorat wrote:

Death ward renders you totally immune to wraiths. They do 0 damage to do and thus do not have a chance to trigger the Energy Drain.

That's what I was thinking. However, while I can find a statement under DR that says if DR reduces damage to 0 then no special effects of the attack are applied, I can't find a general statement to that effect. Can you provide a citation?

[Deidre Tiriel]

DarkKnight27 wrote:

Ok, so the Con Drain part of the attack is NOT considered a "negative energy effect" because of the way it's written. So then with a specter that does 1d8 plus energy drain the character protected by Death Ward would take the 1d8 damage from every hit but would be immune to the energy drain. And finally a shadow attacking a character protected by Death Ward would not be able to do any damage because the shadows strength drain specifically says it's a negative energy effect.

I'm just trying to make sure I understand this.

Yes, this is the way our group reads it. (dealt with some dread wraiths last game, one character had death ward)

[Mojorat]

Some call me Tim wrote:

Mojorat wrote:

Death ward renders you totally immune to wraiths. They do 0 damage to do and thus do not have a chance to trigger the Energy Drain.

That's what I was thinking. However, while I can find a statement under DR that says if DR reduces damage to 0 then no special effects of the attack are applied, I can't find a general statement to that effect. Can you provide a citation?

It really isnt DR its not that They do damage and its reduced to Zero you litterally take no damage. the Citation would be Death ward saying you take no damage.

But i'll see if i can find something more concrete my search fu is weak

[Frankthedm]

Some call me Tim wrote:

I can find a statement under DR that says if DR reduces damage to 0 then no special effects of the attack are applied

DR "negates most special effects" so some get through.

Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury poison, a monk's stunning, and injury-based disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact.

Mojorat wrote:

It really isnt DR its not that They do damage and its reduced to Zero you literally take no damage. the Citation would be Death ward saying you take no damage.

Sadly it's the wraith's attack hitting, rather than damaging, that triggers Constitution Drain

Wraith
Melee incorporeal touch +6 (1d6 negative energy plus 1d6 Con drain)

Constitution Drain (Su)
Creatures hit by a wraith's touch attack must succeed on a DC 17 Fortitude save or take 1d6 points of Constitution drain. On each successful attack, the wraith gains 5 temporary hit points. The save DC is Charisma-based.

TBH I have some serious qualms with ability drain from an undead somehow not being considered Negative energy. While the rules text can be read to support that Death Ward won't stop a wraith's Ability Drain, it juts seems more logical to me it would.

[Kalyth]

I see no reason why Deathward wouldnt render the subject immune to Most of the draining effects of Undead based on negative energy. Now if it was a corporeal undead like draining your blood to cause CON loss I would say Deathward wouldnt prevent the CON damage. But I would rule the Wraiths (1d6 negative energy damage and Con drain) as a "negative energy effect" which deathward wards against.

Its kind of like saying if you had spell called Frost Ward that "protected the subject from cold damage and effects". If that person was hit by a spell that child a target with bitter cold doing 3d6 cold damage and fatigued the target, I would rule he would be immune to the cold damage and the fatigued as the entire spell is a "Cold Effect".

[Tilnar]

DarkKnight27 wrote:

Ok, so the Con Drain part of the attack is NOT considered a "negative energy effect" because of the way it's written. So then with a specter that does 1d8 plus energy drain the character protected by Death Ward would take the 1d8 damage from every hit but would be immune to the energy drain. And finally a shadow attacking a character protected by Death Ward would not be able to do any damage because the shadows strength drain specifically says it's a negative energy effect.

I'm just trying to make sure I understand this.

It's hard to understand because, as written, it's kinda dumb. :)

Like most folks here, I would hand-wave and call the ability damage in this case a type of energy drain (like the shadow's) and be done with it.