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Simply put, how much does ammo made from Mithril cost? Arrows, bolts, sling stones, bullets, and everything else that would be considered ammo.
It seems every other special material gives a price for ammo, or makes it easy to figure out, except this one.
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For the most part, you can't make Mithril Ammunition.
Mithril Arrows are out because they're wood, not metal.
Mithril Bolts are the same.
Mithril Sling Stones are out because they're stone, not metal.
Not sure about bullets, though.
EDIT: For any ammo you can find that IS metal, you can make it Mithril for 500gp/lb. It's right in the same table as all the other prices.
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Mithral arrows are fine because they can have a metal part (as stated in the Cold Iron section right before Mithral), which I assume is the tip.
Any item made of Mithral that isn't listed in the table falls under the "Other items" category of 500 gp/lb. 20 arrows weigh 3 lb, so 20 mithral arrows should weigh 1.5 lb, which gives a total cost of 750 gp for 20 mithral arrows. Seems awful pricey for arrows, but they are masterwork too since all mithral items are masterwork.
I was never sure of that table if it was 500/lb of the original item (which now weighs half as much because it is mithral, or 500/lb of the new item weight.
I was never sure of that table if it was 500/lb of the original item (which now weighs half as much because it is mithral, or 500/lb of the new item weight.Mithral arrows are fine because they can have a metal part (as stated in the Cold Iron section right before Mithral), which I assume is the tip.
Any item made of Mithral that isn't listed in the table falls under the "Other items" category of 500 gp/lb. 20 arrows weigh 3 lb, so 20 mithral arrows should weigh 1.5 lb, which gives a total cost of 750 gp for 20 mithral arrows. Seems awful pricey for arrows, but they are masterwork too since all mithral items are masterwork.
I am wondering the same thing.
Mithral arrows are fine because they can have a metal part (as stated in the Cold Iron section right before Mithral), which I assume is the tip.
Wrong. Cold iron can be used for an item that has a metal part, but mithril has different rules.
Mithril Sling Stones are out because they're stone, not metal.
Partly wrong. Slings use metal balls (bullets), not stone balls. Slings can use normal stones, but at reduced damage. The default ammo is a metal ball.
An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon's size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a quarterstaff cannot.) Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Note the bolded part. Arrows and bolts are not mostly metal, so you can not make mithral version of them.
As for the price, that has never been made clear. Not even in 3rd/3.5 edition (at least it is not in the FAQs). Darkwood also reduces the weight of the object, and specifically says you use the original weight of the item. Mithral doesn't say either way.
Personally, I use the weight of the original item, and it makes better sense that way. If you halved the items weight before calculating the cost, a mithral dagger only costs 252 gold. Now, mithral items count as masterwork, and a regular masterwork dagger costs 302 gold, meaning a mithral dagger(treated as masterwork) is actually cheaper than a steel masterwork dagger. Now, if you calculated the price based on the items original weight, said mithral dagger costs 502 gp, which makes more sense.
An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon's size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a quarterstaff cannot.) Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.Note the bolded part. Arrows and bolts are not mostly metal, so you can not make mithral version of them.
Unless I am mistaken, what the bolded part refers too is the weight savings and armor modifications. Arrow heads are metal and can be made out of mithral, but there is not real weight savings on the arrows.
I should of been clearer. Arrows and bolts can be made from mithral, but there is no reason too. Their weight won't change, and they won't overcome DR/silver the way a normal mithral weapon would. They would be treated as normal arrows in all ways, but cost more.
I should of been clearer. Arrows and bolts can be made from mithral, but there is no reason too. Their weight won't change, and they won't overcome DR/silver the way a normal mithral weapon would. They would be treated as normal arrows in all ways, but cost more.
Why would they not overcome DR/silver?
Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral.
The part I bolded in the quote above. The are not affected by being made from mithral, as there just isn't enough of it to make a difference. The majority of the weapon must be made from mithral to have any in-game effect. If there isn't enough mithral to change the weight of the item, there isn't enough to overcome DR.
Yes, adamantine, cold iron, and silver all work and overcome DR, but mithral uses different rules. (The real problem with this, is in 3.5 mithral didn't count as silver for DR. When Paizo changed how mithral worked, they didn't change the wording of the material.)
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I should of been clearer. Arrows and bolts can be made from mithral, but there is no reason too. Their weight won't change, and they won't overcome DR/silver the way a normal mithral weapon would.
Arrows are not made primarily out of metal, so are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. I think when placed in that light, it is clear that the weight isn't changed. I also think that to rely on that blanket statement regarding the PF tack-on clause regarding DR flies in the face of the general acceptance of cold iron and adamantine arrows doing exactly that.
The idea that arrowheads made of cold iron, adamantine, or silver overcome DR as appropriate, but arrowheads made of mithral do not...this flies in the face of the design goal of game mastery for the sole benefit of reading the words precisely.
Edit: to clarify what I mean by the PF tack-on clause:
Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a scythe cannot be.)
Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a quarterstaff cannot.) Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
The difference is the example unaffected weapon and the addition of the sentence about DR. The sentence about DR is tacked-on. Reading it precisely has the effect of introducing Mithral as having some property that other metals and special materials don't have as the result of the writing process rather than as something inherent about the gameworld that is intended to be there.
I agree it doesn't make much sense, but those are the rules. Mithral items need to be made mostly from mithral to have any in-game effect. Adamantine, cold iron, and silver don't. Blame Paizo for not changing the wording of the material.
I think you are reading to far into it. I'd say it doesn't effect the weight but mithrial counts as silver therefore guess what? It still counts as silver.
I think you are reading to far into it. I'd say it doesn't effect the weight but mithrial counts as silver therefore guess what? It still counts as silver.
That is a fine house rule, and one that I would use. But that is not what is written in the books. I am not arguing on the Rules as Intended, but the Rules as Written.
Adamantine says the weapon must have a metal part to work.
Cold iron says the weapon must have a metal part to work.
Silver is bound to steel, and arrows have steel parts.
Mithral specifically says the majority of a weapon must be mithral to have any effect.
Paizo may of intended to make mithral work as the other metals, but they failed by not changing the following line:
Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral.
Changing the way an item works with DR is clearly an affect.
Arrows are not mostly metal, they are mostly wood. Therefore, making an arrow mithral has no in-game effect.
An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon's size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a quarterstaff cannot.) Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction .
I'd say you are taking it out of context it says that right after the weight entry but then says weapons count as silver.
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Simply put, how much does ammo made from Mithril cost? Arrows, bolts, sling stones, bullets, and everything else that would be considered ammo.
It seems every other special material gives a price for ammo, or makes it easy to figure out, except this one.
I guess my question would be "Why". It seams like it would be easier to just have a masterwork or magic bow/crossbow/sling and silver ammunition.
Why would you want to make the ammunition out of mithril?
I guess my question would be "Why". It seams like it would be easier to just have a masterwork or magic bow/crossbow/sling and silver ammunition.
Why would you want to make the ammunition out of mithril?
To not get the -1 damage but still overcome DR X/silver.
However, you can get the same effect much cheaper (and RAW) with Silver Weapon Blanch (from the APG).
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Simply put, how much does ammo made from Mithril cost? Arrows, bolts, sling stones, bullets, and everything else that would be considered ammo.
It seems every other special material gives a price for ammo, or makes it easy to figure out, except this one.
I guess my question would be "Why". It seams like it would be easier to just have a masterwork or magic bow/crossbow/sling and silver ammunition.
Why would you want to make the ammunition out of mithril?
Probably to avoid the reduction in damage that silvered weapons, including ammunition, gain.
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Really... it's one point of damage. Even at high levels we're talking maybe 15 points of damage over 3 rounds (assuming 5 attacks a round). Most combats I've been in while playing D&D/Pathfinder don't last longer than that. On the rare occasion that combat does go longer it's not a huge amount of damage we're talking about.
There's a lot better use you can put your gold toward, like upgrading your weapon to +3 or better and then it bypasses DR/Silver and DR/Cold Iron and you don't have waste money on special materials.
I guess my question would be "Why". It seams like it would be easier to just have a masterwork or magic bow/crossbow/sling and silver ammunition.
Why would you want to make the ammunition out of mithril?
To not get the -1 damage but still overcome DR X/silver.
However, you can get the same effect much cheaper (and RAW) with Silver Weapon Blanch (from the APG).
+1 Weapon blanch is amazing for archers.
I can see how mithral arrows would not weigh any less. That makes sense, but I also agree with those who say that mithral arrows should count as silver. In all honesty, I don't know much about real life arrows, but if you have a metal tip and a wooden shaft, would the metal tip be the heavier part anyway?
Nope.
I have a dozen aluminum shaft arrows in my closet. The shaft weighs about 5 times what the head does. And that's aluminum, which is actually lighter than wood.
Take a wooden dowel, 2.5 feet to 3 feet long. Hold that in your hand. Now, pick up 4 quarters in the other. That's the heaviest blade I've had for an arrow, and it was a hunting blade (X cross sectioned, diamond shaped tip). If the arrow head were the heaviest part of the arrow, you'd have issues with it dropping too fast.
EDIT :
Oh, as per my reading of Mithral, it has no effect on weapon weight at all unless the weapon is mostly metal. However, whatever parts are metal on a mixed weapon are, to me, count as silver. So, if you had a mithral scythe, it wouldn't be any lighter, but it would count as silver if you hit a werewolf with it. Same for arrow tips, spears, polearms, etc.
I would probably let a player make a crossbow out of darkwood and mithral and get the weight reduction (split the weight in half for each material, and charge half for each material), but only because mithral and darkwood both halve the weight of their respective parts. Same for a mithral spear with a darkwood haft.
The word "meaningfully" isn't very meaningful here. What does it mean to be meaningfully affected? I would think meaningful effects include ignoring hardness, weighing less, resisting energy, etc. Substance on the other hand is what it is. If something is weak to silver and this is a form of silver, how can it be "meaningless" to hit it with silver? That's what RAW would have you accept if you look for the strictest meaning in the words.
I think in this case we're left to interpret what a "meaningful" effect of material composition is, because it's not a binding mechanical term you can find in the glossary like a swift action or a circumstance bonus.
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Edit: to clarify what I mean by the PF tack-on clause:
Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a scythe cannot be.)Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a quarterstaff cannot.) Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.The difference is the example unaffected weapon and the addition of the sentence about DR.
You missed another difference, bolded for your convienience. When making the PF rules, they could have copied that paragraph, added the part about Mithril weapons counting as silver, and been done with it.
But they also changed scythe (which has metal) to quarterstaff (which does not), implying that, yes, you can make a part-metal item (arrows, bolts, spears, etc) out of mithril, and it would count as silver (as per the new rule) but it wouldn't get the weight reduction.|
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You missed another difference, bolded for your convienience. When making the PF rules, they could have copied that paragraph, added the part about Mithril weapons counting as silver, and been done with it.
But they also changed scythe (which has metal) to quarterstaff (which does not), implying that, yes, you can make a part-metal item (arrows, bolts, spears, etc) out of mithril, and it would count as silver (as per the new rule) but it wouldn't get the weight reduction.
I actually started to address this change and chose not to because it didn't support my point about the tack-on nature of the last sentence and can have other interpretations as well. I don't know how much of a scythe is made of wood and how much is made of metal. Quarterstaves, if I understand correctly are all wood, the iron-shod staves of Stephen Donaldson's world not withstanding; in game terms they are explicitly all wood. Scythe might just cloud the water on the weight issue, whereas quarterstaff is pretty cut and dried, even for the iron-shod crowd.
I actually started to address this change and chose not to because it didn't support my point about the tack-on nature of the last sentence and can have other interpretations as well. I don't know how much of a scythe is made of wood and how much is made of metal. Quarterstaves, if I understand correctly are all wood, the iron-shod staves of Stephen Donaldson's world not withstanding; in game terms they are explicitly all wood. Scythe might just cloud the water on the weight issue, whereas quarterstaff is pretty cut and dried, even for the iron-shod crowd.
Here's a good picture of a real scythe. It's about 2/5ths metal, 3/5ths wood. It's designed to be swung low at the shin level, since it is a farm implement designed to cut wheat and grass and such.
As you can see, it's got a blade as long as a short sword at least, probably closer to a long sword depending on the model. So there's no reason why having it made out of mithral wouldn't give you silver effect on a slash if you hit a werewolf with it. However, it's got more wood than metal, so it doesn't get benefit of being lighter. In my game, I'd probably drop it down a pound or so, but that's a houserule. The devs didn't bother with it because they didn't want to come up with a clunky rule to handle partial metal benefits and how to figure out percentages of lightness.
I think that since the part about mithril weapons count as silver is a completely different sentence, anything made from mithril counts as silver for the purposes of overcoming damage resistance. Now whether or not you can make mithril arrow, I think the jury still isn't on in this; as the example is ambiguous.
To the OP: A Shuriken is made of metal; therefore, it can be made of mithril. Based on the idea of the original weight being used to calculate cost, Shurikens are .5 pounds, and making 50 mithril shurikens would cost 10gp for 50 shuriken and 250gp for the mithril or 260gp for 50 (cheaper than actually buying masterwork shurikens). Making it 5.2gp for 1 shuriken; which counts as masterwork and counts as silver for the purposes for overcoming damage reduction.
Any miscalculations or discrepancies?
Holy necro, Batman!
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Seriously, this thread was last commented on three years ago.
Although I always encourage people to search the forums for answers before they post a new question, if you're going to comment on an older thread, PLEASE take into consideration the last time the thread was being read.
A lot can happen over the course of three years.
I was never sure of that table if it was 500/lb of the original item (which now weighs half as much because it is mithral, or 500/lb of the new item weight.
Based on items in Ultimate Equipment;
cauldron (1 gp, 5 lbs) vs. mithral cauldron (1,251 gp, 2.5 lbs)
grappling hook (1 gp, 4 lbs) vs. mithral grappling hook (1,001 gp, 2 lbs)
skillet (8 sp, 4 lbs) vs. mithral skillet (1,001 gp, 2 lbs)
Waffle iron, common (1 gp 5 lbs.) vs Waffle iron, mithral (1,251 gp 2-1/2 lbs.)
Multiply the final weight by 500 and add the base cost.
(note that there are sometimes typos so check the text AND the table; sometimes they disagree)
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...or you could check the FAQ. As well as the date on the post you're replying to. ;)