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I am building a paladin for an upcoming campaign and we are starting at 14th level. He is the standard human two-handed weapon fighter. While creating him, I came across some questions.
1. Does Greater Magic Weapon stack with Divine Bond?
2. If I have a 20 charisma with +4 coming from a headband, do I get the full +5 on saves through Divine Grace?
3. Similarly, if I have a 20 Con with +4 coming from a belt, what do I do with hit-points? It does not seem right that I would gain the +5 hit points for all 14 levels...how do you normally handle this?
I would happily hear any generic or specific build advice as well...especially on feats. Right now I plan to take Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Great Sword or Earth Breaker), Dodge, Toughness and Extra Lay Hands. That leaves me 2 more feats. Ideas?
1. I would say yes, following the normal rules for magic weapons.
2. Yes.
3. You get all those hit points, yes.
I would say take Furious Focus and either Improved Initiative or Improved Critical.
I am building a paladin for an upcoming campaign and we are starting at 14th level. He is the standard human two-handed weapon fighter. While creating him, I came across some questions.
1. Does Greater Magic Weapon stack with Divine Bond?
2. If I have a 20 charisma with +4 coming from a headband, do I get the full +5 on saves through Divine Grace?
3. Similarly, if I have a 20 Con with +4 coming from a belt, what do I do with hit-points? It does not seem right that I would gain the +5 hit points for all 14 levels...how do you normally handle this?
1. Yes, though the +10 max still applies. [And, just from experience, turning on the "Holy" when smiting, totally excellent...]
2. Once it's attuned (after 24 hours), then yes, you do.
3. As with #2 -- you gain +1 hp per level once you're attuned to the belt.
As a 2-hander, I can't recommend Furious Focus enough. ;) Depending on your weapon, Improved Critical is very useful.
Edit: Ninja'd -- and with very similar advice. ;)
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I am building a paladin for an upcoming campaign and we are starting at 14th level. He is the standard human two-handed weapon fighter. While creating him, I came across some questions.
1. Does Greater Magic Weapon stack with Divine Bond?
2. If I have a 20 charisma with +4 coming from a headband, do I get the full +5 on saves through Divine Grace?
3. Similarly, if I have a 20 Con with +4 coming from a belt, what do I do with hit-points? It does not seem right that I would gain the +5 hit points for all 14 levels...how do you normally handle this?
I would happily hear any generic or specific build advice as well...especially on feats. Right now I plan to take Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Great Sword or Earth Breaker), Dodge, Toughness and Extra Lay Hands. That leaves me 2 more feats. Ideas?
1) No. It stack with the weapon's (permanent) bonus, but not with the spell. The bonus is a enhancement bonus so is GMW. Both are temporary enhancement bonuses, they don't stack. Properties like flaming does stack with GMW.
2) Yes. It also affects most other bonuses granted by Char. I would say you don't have to wait 24 hours to get bonus on Channeling DC, Skills, Smite attack bonus, and Divine grace.
Reason I say you get the bonus on saves right away is simple. Enhancement bonus to Dex, Con and Wisdom give you bonus to saves immediately (page 554 + 555 Core rule book). Temporary bonus to Str give a bonus to attack so you should you get the attack bonus to Smite.
But you won't get more channel, More Lay on hand or bonus spells until 24 hours.
3) Con belt +4 = you gain +2 hp per level immediately. All levels. It also affects fortitude saves. You don't have to wait 24 hours. (page 555 Core rule book)
4) Power attack and Improved critical are a must have. Use a Great sword or even better a Falchion. Falchion is better but Great sword feels more like a Paladin weapon. I wouldn't bother with dodge or with toughness You got channel and you can use lay on hand as a free action and charisma bonus as a deflection bonus to AC when you smite. "Quick Draw" is good, so is "Step up". "Blind fight" is very good. " Combat Reflexes " isn't bad. If the campaign is filled with undeads "Improved Channel" is nice. With the errata in the bestiary Channel is great vs. undead incorporeals. Selective channeling sounds good, but I wouldn't pick it. You don't want to be the healer. Improved Initiative isn't bad. Furious Focus sound good but remember the one attack that you probably will hit with is the first. Still a nice feat if you plan on charging a lot, but so is mobility actually. Don't go for all the eggs in the same basket. Try do be versatile. Quick Draw", "Step up", "Blind fight" and " Combat Reflexes " help you do stuff you normally can't do. Other feats only lets you do stuff better. A VERY good feat is Critical Focus. Sure Bless weapon will confirm threats vs. evil but you don't always have time to cast it and you don't always fight evil foes. Other useful feats: Combat Casting and Cleave. At higher levels Extra Mercy is good.
Saved something fun for last: Channel Smite is very nice. If your DM let you combine Alignment Channel with Channel Smite you are a winner. :-)
To sum it up:
Power attack and Improved critical are a must have. Don't use Earth Breaker.
Then add some of these feats: Quick Draw, Step up, "Blind fight, Combat Reflexes, Critical Focus. If your DM let you use Alignment Channel with Channel Smite go for it, if not pick only Channel Smite. Extra Lay Hands is good with these feat so is Improved Channel. Risk is obviously you put all eggs in the same basked when you focus on Channel feats. With a high char you channel DC will be good anyway.
Other advice: Get the trait that gives you +2 to caster level (find it in the APG). Your spells are actually VERY good.
Last advices
1) Smite now works on range attacks. PBS and Precise shot might be good, ...or not :-)
2) the skill use magic device is VERY NICE. A wand with longstrider is cheap and a wand with see invisibility is very nice. and...wand with SHIELD cost nothing. You might even buy one with CL 2.
14 ranks UMD + char mod +4 even when you role 1 you can't fail since DC is 20 :-)
Happy Gaming!
1) No. It stack with the weapon's (permanent) bonus, but not with the spell. The bonus is a enhancement bonus so is GMW. Both are temporary enhancement bonuses, they don't stack. Properties like flaming does stack with GMW.
I don't follow your point on this one -- could you clarify where you find this position in the rules?
I don't follow your point on this one -- could you clarify where you find this position in the rules?
1) No. It stack with the weapon's (permanent) bonus, but not with the spell. The bonus is a enhancement bonus so is GMW. Both are temporary enhancement bonuses, they don't stack. Properties like flaming does stack with GMW.
It's my reading of the rules.
I have seen other answers from the staf saying temporay bonuses don't stack and the text says:"this spirit grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus.
For every three levels beyond 5th, the weapon gains
another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +6 at
20th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon,
stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5,
Enhancement bonuses don't stack. The text says: existing weapon bonuses, GMW is a spell not a weapon. I'm reading "existing weapon bonuses" as perament bonus. I might be wrong. Good FAQ question.
I don't follow your point on this one -- could you clarify where you find this position in the rules?
1) No. It stack with the weapon's (permanent) bonus, but not with the spell. The bonus is a enhancement bonus so is GMW. Both are temporary enhancement bonuses, they don't stack. Properties like flaming does stack with GMW.
It's my reading of the rules.
I have seen other answers from the staf saying temporay bonuses don't stack and the text says:"this spirit grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus.
For every three levels beyond 5th, the weapon gains
another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +6 at
20th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon,
stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5,Enhancement bonuses don't stack. The text says: existing weapon bonuses, GMW is a spell not a weapon. I'm reading "existing weapon bonuses" as perament bonus. I might be wrong. Good FAQ question.
GMW provides the weapon with an enhancement bonus though -- at which point the weapon has an enhancement bonus. Since it has an enhancement bonus at that time using the spirit will allow stacking with what is already on it from the spell (since the spell gave it a specific enhancement bonus).
Now in the case that you were to use the spirit first and then the spell you then they wouldn't stack because the spell wasn't pre-existing.
stuff
your reading. Press the FAQ. I did.
Might i interest you to this guide? (it's a little outdated but it does give you a pretty good understanding of the paladin class)
stuffyour reading. Press the FAQ. I did.
Oh I FAQ it too -- however the ability doesn't state it matters where the pre-existing bonus must come from -- only that it has to be there and must be pre-existing.
Now on a houserule level I can see where this would have a place in a game (maybe not for my game but I could understand the reasonableness of it if I was to come across it) -- but from what I'm seeing RAW GMW will stack with Divine bond, if GMW is cast before divine bond is used, since it is a pre-existing enhancement bonus that the weapon has.
Thanks for all the replies. I have seen the 2 paladin guides out there. I will definitely be taking Improved Critical. Furious Focus and Channel Smite look interesting too. Does Channel Smite only work on Undead? I will consult my DM on Divine Bond and GMW. Use Magic Device seems like a great way to get some additional enhancements. If I used UMD for to activate a Longstrider wand, do I get the full 14 hour duration?
One more question...I have never played character at 14th level, so what should my target AC be if I want to be able to stand toe-to-toe with the BBEGs at this level?
Thanks for all the replies. I have seen the 2 paladin guides out there. I will definitely be taking Improved Critical. Furious Focus and Channel Smite look interesting too. Does Channel Smite only work on Undead? I will consult my DM on Divine Bond and GMW. Use Magic Device seems like a great way to get some additional enhancements. If I used UMD for to activate a Longstrider wand, do I get the full 14 hour duration?
One more question...I have never played character at 14th level, so what should my target AC be if I want to be able to stand toe-to-toe with the BBEGs at this level?
If you look in your bestiary in the back there is a table of what an "average" threat should look like for your level. BBEG's are typically around 2~4 CR levels higher than that table. So you want to have an AC where at least 75% of the hits from a CR 2~4 levels higher than your level will miss.
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Thanks for all the replies. I have seen the 2 paladin guides out there. I will definitely be taking Improved Critical. Furious Focus and Channel Smite look interesting too. Does Channel Smite only work on Undead? I will consult my DM on Divine Bond and GMW. Use Magic Device seems like a great way to get some additional enhancements. If I used UMD for to activate a Longstrider wand, do I get the full 14 hour duration?
One more question...I have never played character at 14th level, so what should my target AC be if I want to be able to stand toe-to-toe with the BBEGs at this level?
Quick note...I wrote the cryptic guide.
Wands have a caster level. Your level does not override.
As to AC, in my experience most high CR monsters fit a couple categories 1) not reliant on attacks that target AC, 2) lots of primary attacks, 3) humanoid fightery types.
Type 1 AC is irrelevant. Type 3 are almost impossible to make worth their CR at your level. They lack the HPs and raw nastiness that comparable creatures have. Most of this is due to NPC wealth, and occasionally Paizo BBEG have normal wealth an thus avoid the issue.
Type 2 are the real concern. They have lots of attacks at a big bonus. I would say at lvl 14 you need 30 AC not smiting and 35+ AC smiting to tank. That is relatively cheap if you have a shield and relatively expensive if you do not.
Compare base AC 21 with shield and fullplate to base AC 19 without shield. Not using rings of deflection since smite would overlap.
With a shield you can get to AC 29 with +4 armor/ +3 shield / +1 neck. That costs around 27k. Without a shield you need +5 armor and +5 neck you get AC 29 for almost 75k. For 75k, when using a shield you could get +5 armor /+5 shield / +3 neck you would get 34 AC...a difference of 5 points of AC.
Basically, for a 2H build. I would aim for 28-30 AC not smiting and a 33-35 AC smiting and probably diversify my defense to attacks (miss chance, mirror images etc).
Thanks for all the replies. I have seen the 2 paladin guides out there. I will definitely be taking Improved Critical. Furious Focus and Channel Smite look interesting too. Does Channel Smite only work on Undead?
Yes. Tf you have Alignment Channel as well it would work on evil outsiders as well. But ask your DM. COme to think of it I kind of agree with the guide. It kind of eats your resorses. Pick step up instead. Great when archers nor spell casters takes a 5 ft step or take Quick Draw or some other feat.
Magic Device seems like a great way to get some additional enhancements. If I used UMD for to activate a Longstrider wand, do I get the full 14 hour duration?
No, as John said. The CL is set. You can order a CL 1 or CL 2 or whatever. Just get some wand. Cheap and nice.
Long strider CL1 cost 750 GP and have 50 charges. Thats 50 hours. :-)One of the most underrated items in the game is ring of spell storing.
A minor gives you 3 spell levels so you could add
3 CL 1 spells
or
1 CL1 + 1 CL 2.
The spell "Shield" is a friend if you are a 2H-fighting Paladin. You get a +4 Shield bonus to AC and you can still use a great sword.
Feather fall is also nice
See Invisibility
Barkskin
Heroism (get it from a bard. Cheaper)
Lead Blades (Ranger spell from teh APG - yes DM will hate you)
Feather Step (Bard spell from the APG)
Mirror Image or Blur. with low caster level Blur is better. Problem with Blur and mirror image is that it will also make it har for friendly casters to target you uneless they cot true seeing.
Don't forgett to use your Paladin spells.
Bless weapon, Divine Favor and Resist Energy are all great.
Protection from Evil, Magic Circle against Evil, Remove Paralysis, etc are also good.
Don't know much about the spells in the APG, might be forth checking it out.
One more question...I have never played character at 14th level, so what should my target AC be if I want to be able to stand toe-to-toe with the BBEGs at this level?
Remember UMD and spells are your friends.
Shield give you +4 to AC and it is a force effect. Protect vs. incorporals.full Plate +4 = AC 13
Ring of deflection = +3 (yes you should have one)
Barkskin or Amulet of natural armor = AC 2 (or AC 3)
Ioun Stone Dusty rose Prism = +1 insight bonus to AC
Dex ? = +2? (Ioun Stone Deep red Sphere give you +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity)
Shield = AC.
AC: 13+3+2+1+2+4=AC 35 or higher depending on dek and natural armor.
At level 14 your charisma should be 22.
So when you smite your AC would be 38.
Last not on ring of protection. Yes it doesn't stack with smite bonus but
- smite bonus is only vs one enemy,
- you don't always smite,
- sometimes they hit first before you have yet smited.
- you do fight netral enemies sometimes,
- deflection is good vs. everything alla the time.
Get the ring, at least a +3.
Wow, you guys really know your stuff. Thanks again for all the advice.
I am planning on buying Boots of Striding/Springing for the movement rate and Acro boost. Wands look like a good choice, especially Shield...assuming I have time to buff before epic battles...since I will already have to burn a standard action to activate Divine Bond.
For AC, I have a +3 to Dex, so I should be able to get to 30 with +4 full plate, +3 amulet of natural armor, and dodge
I can also carry a shield and longsword for the times when I face high CR enemies with lots of primary attacks. But this may not be worth it, since CR 17 foes range from +19 - +32 attack bonus, with most being in the mid 20s. Seems like they will be hitting at least half the time anyway unless I devote a prohibitively large amount of resources to AC? Might be better to hope that spells (i.e. Shield) can boost AC. And I should have right at 200 hp with 20 con, 28 from favored class/toughness, and 7.5 points/level (DM decided), with the ability to heal an average of 21 pts per round with lay hands. It will be a full party after all with a fighter and rogue soaking up some damage (hopefully).
Will be taking Step Up for some versatility as well.
3) Con belt +4 = you gain +2 hp per level immediately. All levels. It also affects fortitude saves. You don't have to wait 24 hours. (page 555 Core rule book)
You know, as someone who's played more than one Barbarian, you'd think I would have realized the HP boost would come right away. That's what I get. :)