So my DM gave me a change to get some dragon hide for a nice full plate armor. *happy druid*
So me (a level 9 CN druid) and our sorcerer/dragon disciple did a favor for a black dragon. The DM gives me a choice to take one color of dragon hide for my armor, but every color has a consequence.
Black; I have to promise I will never attack a black dragon again…
Good aligned color; I will piss off my cleric since he is NG and he will give me a very hard time RP wise. The black dragon will probably raid THE dragon graveyard for this. I just know this will get me into trouble the next time I enter a big town…
“neutral aligned” color; my DM was very cryptic about this, although I don’t understand what color this could be, I got a definite *evil grin* from him after asking if there where any neutral dragons…
I could ask for another boon, since I can’t get heavy armor proficiency till level 11, but hey, it seems easy to get this way.
I can't decide :(
On a side note, my druid has been build like a fighter, build to hurt other creatures, a lot! The problem is, our fighter has an AC of 29, while I, in wildshape only have 18 AC in Huge form. Guess who gets his ass handed to him as soon as the bad guys see the big hipo is easy to hit…
The dragon is already dead and he would probably prefer it go to a good cause. If you are worried about a neutral dragon attacking you then get it glamered so it looks like different armor.
PS:Who is the promise to not attack a black dragon being made to in the game, and what happens if you break the promise?
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Red-dragon hide. You won't be "indebted" to the black dragon or annoy anyone in the party, it looks badass cool, and if you piss off a red dragon, you were probably on a mission to kill it anyway. Since red dragons are indiscriminate with their use of flame breath over forests, druids have plenty of reason to dislike them.
The dragon is already dead and he would probably prefer it go to a good cause. If you are worried about a neutral dragon attacking you then get it glamered so it looks like different armor.
PS:Who is the promise to not attack a black dragon being made to in the game, and what happens if you break the promise?
That was my reaction too, but our cleric kept on b&@+@ing about it being from a "good" dragon. Me being a CN treehug... i mean druid, am glad the circle of life can continue; "you lost you jacket, now i get to use it"
The promis is to that specific black dragon
I just noted that al Chromatic dragons are evil and only the Metallic dragons are good aligned... Red seems a good choice this way.
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I could ask for another boon, since I can’t get heavy armor proficiency till level 11, but hey, it seems easy to get this way.
Is your DEX higher than 12, or are DEX-granting items available? Are you frequently wildshapped into an animal with a 16 DEX?
If so, you don't want full-plate anyway; barter instead for a dragonhide breastplate with the Wild enhancement. (Maybe your DM will give it to you before he looks up the price tag! :-P)
I could ask for another boon, since I can’t get heavy armor proficiency till level 11, but hey, it seems easy to get this way.Is your DEX higher than 12, or are DEX-granting items available? Are you frequently wildshapped into an animal with a 16 DEX?
If so, you don't want full-plate anyway; barter instead for a dragonhide breastplate with the Wild enhancement.
My Dex is 17 right now (i had A LOT of luck rolling my atributes) next point will go into Dex to get it to 18. I am almost constant in wildshape. Why do you ask?
I will need the wild enchant to get to use the AC in wildshape anyway. A breastplate does save me an extra feat, although I only need two more to finish the Vital Strike chain and I don't know what to do with the other feats...
I just got an email from my DM, telling me that killing a red isn't in the black's survival guide. So its either black, a good dragon or a crag (with a deathcurse)
Patchwork rainbow!
i'm not sure exactly about pathfinder dragonhide but you used to be able to make dragon hide from sheadings, so the dragon doesn't have to be killed in order to use it's scales.
from a role-play point of view i would go with black dragon hide and here's why.
Your character IS CN he doesn't have to keep any promise at all. Or he can keep his promise until he decides to break it... A black dragon really isn't going to care if you kill one of there kind too much as long as it isn't him! Blacks being evil there not likely to keep there word and there not really going to rely on anyone else to keep there's. AND when the crap hits the fan you can play this trump card - " i promised i would not kill a black dragon again, and i choose the black dragon who gave me the armor, I never said i wouldn't kill ANY black dragon!". Or just beat any black dragon down to an inch of it's life and let the other party members get the killing blow- " He was alive when i stopped hacking him to peaces, I didn't kill him!" :D
Those cases would both be CN...
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Are you frequently wildshapped into an animal with a 16 DEX? ...If so, you don't want full-plate anyway; barter instead for a dragonhide breastplate with the Wild enhancement.My Dex is 17 right now (i had A LOT of luck rolling my atributes) next point will go into Dex to get it to 18. I am almost constant in wildshape. Why do you ask?
Because fullplate has a maximum-allowable DEX bonus of +1, which means that, once your DEX is 18, 3 AC-worth of your DEX bonus including Touch-AC will be nerfed. IOW, this fabulous gift of dragonhide fullplate, which you can only using by spending a precious druid feat, gets you...a measly +1 AC over wearing brigidine medium armor or +2 over the ordinary hide-shirt you're wearing right now. But you suffer a loss of 3 Touch-AC and you eat another -3 armor-check penalty "upgrading" to dragonhide fullplate.
"Stay tuned for the next thrilling adventure as our band of intrepid heroes journeys to the Incorporeal Undead-Haunted Rotting Ruins of Slimy Ledges Overlooking Croc-infested Scumponds!"
-- It's a raw deal.
I only need two more to finish the Vital Strike chain and I don't know what to do with the other feats.What are your stats, race, levels, traits and feats so far? What is your animal companion? Any multiclassing?
I just got an email from my DM, telling me that killing a red isn't in the black's survival guide. So its either black, a good dragon or a crag (with a deathcurse)
Basically your DM is asking you-the-player to make a will-save or fall into a suboptimal equipment trap at the cost of getting punked later when he springs the "price" on you in a later adventure. I am offering you an Aid-another bonus to your saving-throw.
-- Inform the black dragon that while you are deeply honored by his offer, that such largess is beyond your capacity to adequately use. But, should he have a dusty rose prism Ioun Stone laying in his hoard somewhere, you would gratefully accept the small trinket as a momento.
Patchwork rainbow!
Yeah! Yellow for one leg, blue for the other, red for one arm and green for the other and black for the torso and head. Bonus points for having your armored gauntlets, boots and helmet shaped liked dragon heads. Dynotherms connected! Infracells up! Mega thrusters are go! LET'S GO VOLTRON!
This way you get to offend every chromatic equally and can have fun making growly noises with your hand-puppet gauntlets. =D
I could ask for another boon, since I can’t get heavy armor proficiency till level 11, but hey, it seems easy to get this way.Is your DEX higher than 12, or are DEX-granting items available? Are you frequently wildshapped into an animal with a 16 DEX?
If so, you don't want full-plate anyway; barter instead for a dragonhide breastplate with the Wild enhancement.
My Dex is 17 right now (i had A LOT of luck rolling my atributes) next point will go into Dex to get it to 18. I am almost constant in wildshape. Why do you ask?
I will need the wild enchant to get to use the AC in wildshape anyway. A breastplate does save me an extra feat, although I only need two more to finish the Vital Strike chain and I don't know what to do with the other feats...
I just got an email from my DM, telling me that killing a red isn't in the black's survival guide. So its either black, a good dragon or a crag (with a deathcurse)
Are the vital strike feats an RP thing or an optimization thing? If it is not RP then stop while you are ahead. If it is RP then carry on.
full plate 9 wild(worth 3 price wise) enhancement AC +2, +1 dex=13
hide 4 wild(worth 3 price wise) enhancement AC +2, +4 dex=10
I see no reason to honor the black dragon's request but it might require a bluff check to get the black dragon hide. The fullplate is better in the long run, but this also depends on what level you expect to play too. I think you can survive with medium armor well enough that the dragonhide is not a necessity.
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Are the vital strike feats an RP thing or an optimization thing? If it is not RP then stop while you are ahead. If it is RP then carry on.
full plate 9 wild(worth 3 price wise) enhancement AC +2, +1 dex=13
hide 4 wild(worth 3 price wise) enhancement AC +2, +4 dex=10
Uh, Wraith? You're counseling against "optimizing" for damage, then immediately explore optimizing the armor!
(I reiterate that eating -3 Touch and -3 Armor Check to skills is no deal at all in exchange for "upgrading" to fullplate for +2 Flatfoot. I also somehow doubt that this druid is going to have a prayer in hell of beating a dragon's Sense Motive with a Bluff check -- it'll probably notice instantly, and lower opinion rating of the PC. While the character is chaotic-neutral, they might have to bite their tongue and adopt a temporary policy of honesty...if only around certain black dragons.)
Vital strike is a decent feat if he plans to shapechange into something like a rhino that does the one big hit, but the best damagers are things like lions that can pounce. If they have to charge they get a full attack. If they are already in front of you they get a full attack. Vital strike does not apply in either case.
As for the armor thing I think the fullplate is better, but how much better depends on factors of the game. I doubt that he could bluff the dragon either. He may have to go with hide until he can get dragonhide on his own.
Depending on the setting he may be able to get fullplate made of wood.
Because fullplate has a maximum-allowable DEX bonus of +1, which means that, once your DEX is 18, 3 AC-worth of your DEX bonus including Touch-AC will be nerfed. IOW, this fabulous gift of dragonhide fullplate, which you can only wear by spending a feat, gets you...a measly +1 AC over wearing brigidine medium armor or +2 over the ordinary hide-shirt you're wearing right now. But you suffer a loss of 3 Touch-AC and you eat another -3 armor-check penalty "upgrading" to dragonhide fullplate.
This post by James Jacobs clearly states otherwise (while wildshaped!)
The armor, once you wildshape, no longer impedes your movement. its max Dex no longer applies, nor does its armor check penalty. This is what helps make the "wild" armor quality a +3 equivalent bonus and not +2 or +1.
level 9 druid (CN human)
Str 20 (start 18) (24 with belt of giant strenght)
Dex 17
Con 17
Int 12
Wis 14 (16 with headband of wisdom)
Cha 9
We rolled 4d6 minus lowest number (we play a high-end game)
Feats;
1 Combat Casting and Power attack
3 Cleave
5 Natural spell
7 Quicken supernatural abilty (wildshape as a move-action 3 times a day)
9 Vital strike
my DM is willing to change the vital strike chain so i can actually get greater vital strike (since you need a BAB of 16 for it and druids only go to 15) so from the 5 feats left I will need 2 for the vital strike chain.
I am not planning on multi classing and i have a tiger (with Int 3) as companion (which wil probably get a teamwork feat along the line)
Because fullplate has a maximum-allowable DEX bonus of +1, which means that, once your DEX is 18, 3 AC-worth of your DEX bonus including Touch-AC will be nerfed. IOW, this fabulous gift of dragonhide fullplate, which you can only wear by spending a feat, gets you...a measly +1 AC over wearing brigidine medium armor or +2 over the ordinary hide-shirt you're wearing right now. But you suffer a loss of 3 Touch-AC and you eat another -3 armor-check penalty "upgrading" to dragonhide fullplate.This post by James Jacobs clearly states otherwise (while wildshaped!)
The armor, once you wildshape, no longer impedes your movement. its max Dex no longer applies, nor does its armor check penalty. This is what helps make the "wild" armor quality a +3 equivalent bonus and not +2 or +1.level 9 druid (CN human)
Str 20 (start 18) (24 with belt of giant strenght)
Dex 17
Con 17
Int 12
Wis 14 (16 with headband of wisdom)
Cha 9We rolled 4d6 minus lowest number (we play a high-end game)
Feats;
1 Combat Casting and Power attack
3 Cleave
5 Natural spell
7 Quicken supernatural abilty (wildshape as a move-action 3 times a day)
9 Vital strikemy DM is willing to change the vital strike chain so i can actually get greater vital strike (since you need a BAB of 16 for it and druids only go to 15) so from the 5 feats left I will need 2 for the vital strike chain.
I am not planning on multi classing and i have a tiger (with Int 3) as companion (which wil probably get a teamwork feat along the line)
You using 3.5 stuff? I know there was a 3.5 feat that you use shapechange as a move action. I think there is also one that works as a swift action.
Take the fullplate feat at 11.What animal will you be wildshaping into?
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James Jacobs wrote: The armor, once you wildshape, no longer impedes your movement. its max Dex no longer applies, nor does its armor check penalty. This is what helps make the "wild" armor quality a +3 equivalent bonus and not +2 or +1.
OK. That works then -- if you get the Wild enhancement. Otherwise it's junk for a DEX 18 character.
I still don't like the feat expense. Druids are starved for feats. For instance, you don't have any Metamagic feats.
(Some of the most hideously powerful druids I ever encountered didn't spend a single gold piece on armor after 1st level because they were always wild-shaped into some uber-sneak Tiny-size animal and raining destruction and Summons in from afar. It's hard to see a hummingbird sitting on a branch a hundred feet away.)
You using 3.5 stuff? I know there was a 3.5 feat that you use shapechange as a move action. I think there is also one that works as a swift action.
Take the fullplate feat at 11.
What animal will you be wildshaping into?
we started our campagne in 3.5, at level 4 we switched to pathfinder. I think it was from 3.5 indeed, but my DM is quit open for these kind of things.
It comes in handy every now and than and we limited it to 3 times a day.OK. That works then -- if you get the Wild enhancement. Otherwise it's junk for a DEX 18 character.
I still don't like the feat expense. Druids are starved for feats. For instance, you don't have any Metamagic feats.
(Some of the most hideously powerful druids I ever encountered didn't spend a single gold piece on armor after 1st level because they were always wild-shaped into some uber-sneak Tiny-size animal and raining destruction and Summons in from afar. It's hard to see a hummingbird sitting on a branch a hundred feet away.)
If I where a caster, I would have done that. When there is damage reduction to overcome this hipo loving druid will Vital Strik for 8d8+15 (don't forget the 15 feet range!!). Any other time is usually the Dire Tiger pouncing and raking around with 5 attacks (+9 on every one of them).
I also play around with the elementals, but usually for utility, like earth glide and whirlwind/vortex.
My spells are only as backup and are usually the AoE spells, the enchancement spells (the APG has a lot of them for wildshaped druids) and a spare healing spell.
The new Aspect spells are great, so are Thorn Body and Natural Rythem.
Any advice on other feats?
You using 3.5 stuff? I know there was a 3.5 feat that you use shapechange as a move action. I think there is also one that works as a swift action.
Take the fullplate feat at 11.
What animal will you be wildshaping into?
we started our campagne in 3.5, at level 4 we switched to pathfinder. I think it was from 3.5 indeed, but my DM is quit open for these kind of things.
It comes in handy every now and than and we limited it to 3 times a day.OK. That works then -- if you get the Wild enhancement. Otherwise it's junk for a DEX 18 character.
I still don't like the feat expense. Druids are starved for feats. For instance, you don't have any Metamagic feats.
(Some of the most hideously powerful druids I ever encountered didn't spend a single gold piece on armor after 1st level because they were always wild-shaped into some uber-sneak Tiny-size animal and raining destruction and Summons in from afar. It's hard to see a hummingbird sitting on a branch a hundred feet away.)
If I where a caster, I would have done that. When there is damage reduction to overcome this hipo loving druid will Vital Strik for 8d8+15 (don't forget the 15 feet reach!!). Any other time is usually the Dire Tiger pouncing and raking around with 5 attacks (+9 on every one of them).
I also play around with the elementals, but usually for utility, like earth glide and whirlwind/vortex.
My spells are only as backup and are usually the AoE spells, the enchancement spells (the APG has a lot of them for wildshaped druids) and a spare healing spell.
The new Aspect spells are great, so are Thorn Body and Natural Rythem.
Any advice on other feats?