I've been re-reading the rules and looking at other posts here, but I'm still a bit confused on using intimidate in combat due to all the contradictory views.
If I understand it right:
1) you can only specifically target one foe at a time (i.e does not affect multiple monsters)
2) It does not stack, i.e. if you intimidate someone you already have intimidated (shaken condition) they won't have the fear condition, but will just be shaken longer.
Have I got it right??!!
That is correct.
I find it difficult to figure out how Demoralize, in particular, is a valid part of the system. It just seems so weak to me.
Seems ok to me, what part is the disagreeable bit?
one other bit of confusion, if you try to demoralize an adjacent foe, does it provoke an AoO?
AFAIK this is not clearly ruled, but it doesn't provoke on my table (no need to aasume you have to let your guard down and become vulnerable to intimidate someone, kind of counter-intuitive).
AFAIK, fear effects stack unless specified otherwise. That means that you could Intimidate your foe several times in a row to make them frightened.
Of course, it's easier said than done. You need:
1) to succeed on the first check with a margin of 5 or more in order to make them shaken for more than one round - this costs you a standard action
2) to succeed on the second check, knowing that each check after the first has +5 to its DC - this costs you another standard action and, if this check fails, you start at #1 again (but with yet another +5 to the DC)
So, to make an enemy flee for one round, you need to spend two rounds to do so, doing almost nothing else, with high enough checks to beat 10+HD+Wis+5 twice in a row. If you want to make them flee for two rounds, the DC increases by another +5.
Let's take two 10th-level characters playing this game. For this example, they both have 12 in Charisma and Wisdom, are of the same size, and have maxed out Intimidate (as a class skill). This gives them +14 to the check, to beat a DC of 26. Probability to win this twice in a row: 20%. Probability to make them flee two rounds instead of one: 4%.
In order for this strategy to be reliable, they'd need to invest feats like Skill Focus (+6 because they have 10 ranks at this point), Persuasive (+4), and Intimidating Prowess (if they have a good enough Strength score). At this point, one could mention other feats like Dazzling Display or Enforcer (APG), as well as the Barbarian's rage powers (Intimidating Glare and Terrifying Howl).
It could work.
However, several feats and a maxed out skill to make someone flee for one round at the expense of two standard actions... seems a bit much. And let's not forget that some characters/monsters are completely immune to fear.
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AFAIK, fear effects stack unless specified otherwise. That means that you could Intimidate your foe several times in a row to make them frightened.
That's what I mean about confusing - there seems to be no consensus on this at all with some people saying fear stacks and others that it doesn't specifically in regard to demoralize. I've already seen long threads on just this one aspect.
I really wish the developers would weigh in and end the debate on this once and for all!
Check the errata - it has already happened. Unfortunately they didn't update the PRD. Demoralize doesn't stack to make shaken into frightened.
To keep this thread moving, I have a related question as well: how is the DC for intimidating a creature in combat determined? Is it a number that's on the Bestiary page for that monster?
From the skills section:
Demoralize: You can use this skill to cause your opponents to become shaken for a number of rounds. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier.
Cool, thanks Interzone!
Cool, thanks Interzone!
Anytime ;)