First of all, I hope this is the right place to put this thread. I don't actually HAVE this done. This thread is intended to get opinions on the potential for the conversion before I invest time into it. I don't have experience with the Star Wars d20 RPG, but I have read the core rulebook over, and I find the idea of using force powers as "skills" very refreshing. I like that there isn't a point system like d20 psionics. That feels far too metagame-y for me.
Now, looking at the number of force powers in comparison to the number of psionic powers... There would be a lot of work going into breaking each psionic power into smaller power levels to work on the same level. I wouldn't want to have a 'skill' for each power, either, but maybe a skill for each type of power (IE: metacreativity, clairvoyance, etc).
I wonder if anyone who has played the Star Wars RPG has any insight into how well the force powers system worked, and whether or not this seems plausible. I would really like positive feedback on the system because it intrigues me, but I am prepared to hear some harsh criticism of it for some reason.
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I ran my group through a 1-17 level campaign (almost 2 years real-time). The problem with Star Wars saga was that Force powers almost always pitted a Use the Force skill check versus an opponent's Defense. A 1st level Jedi could easily (as in, without trying) have a UtF check modifier of +13, which he could use against an opponent who might have a static Defense (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will) of 10-14. It's almost an auto-pass even at low levels. Also, UtF is a skill so no "fumble" (or course, no crit either).
-Skeld
I ran my group through a 1-17 level campaign (almost 2 years real-time). The problem with Star Wars saga was that Force powers almost always pitted a Use the Force skill check versus an opponent's Defense. A 1st level Jedi could easily (as in, without trying) have a UtF check modifier of +13, which he could use against an opponent who might have a static Defense (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will) of 10-14. It's almost an auto-pass even at low levels. Also, UtF is a skill so no "fumble" (or course, no crit either).
-Skeld
The saving throws were static defenses? I thought the UtF skill was rolled to determine the potency and/or saving throw of the power, and then the opponent got a saving throw (where one applied). That seems fair to me, but I agree that targeting a static save bonus does not work well mechanically. Perhaps I didn't understand them as well as I thought.
Any other thoughts, insight, criticisms, or mind tricks?
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I ran my group through a 1-17 level campaign (almost 2 years real-time). The problem with Star Wars saga was that Force powers almost always pitted a Use the Force skill check versus an opponent's Defense. A 1st level Jedi could easily (as in, without trying) have a UtF check modifier of +13, which he could use against an opponent who might have a static Defense (Fortitude, Reflex, or Will) of 10-14. It's almost an auto-pass even at low levels. Also, UtF is a skill so no "fumble" (or course, no crit either).
-Skeld
The saving throws were static defenses? I thought the UtF skill was rolled to determine the potency and/or saving throw of the power, and then the opponent got a saving throw (where one applied). That seems fair to me, but I agree that targeting a static save bonus does not work well mechanically. Perhaps I didn't understand them as well as I thought.
Any other thoughts, insight, criticisms, or mind tricks?
There are no saving throws in SWSE. Fortitude, Reflex, and Will are your Defenses. They are static numbers and attacks/checks are made against them. For example, if a Jedi wants to use Move Object on you, he rolls a UtF check to determine the size of object he can move (a Medium object is DC15) and compares the result to your Will Defense. If he beats the DC for a Medium object (which is trivial for a level 1 Jedi) and beats your Will Defense (which at level 1 is also generally going to be <=15), he can move you.
The same goes for attack rolls. If someone attacks you, they roll their attack against your Reflex Defense. It's is effectively your AC in SWSE.
-Skeld
There are no saving throws in SWSE. Fortitude, Reflex, and Will are your Defenses. They are static numbers and attacks/checks are made against them. For example, if a Jedi wants to use Move Object on you, he rolls a UtF check to determine the size of object he can move (a Medium object is DC15) and compares the result to your Will Defense. If he beats the DC for a Medium object (which is trivial for a level 1 Jedi) and beats your Will Defense (which at level 1 is also generally going to be <=15), he can move you.
The same goes for attack rolls. If someone attacks you, they roll their attack against your Reflex Defense. It's is effectively your AC in SWSE.
-Skeld
I think we are looking at different versions of the game. I'm looking at the Star Wars RPG Revised Core Rulebook. For instance, an Affect Mind force skill check determines the DC for the Will saving throw your target has to make.
1-4 sets a DC 5
5-14 sets a DC 10
15-24 sets a DC 15 and so on...
And it specifically calls for a Will saving throw. Also, you mention a UtF check several times, but there are several more skills for using the force, each one corresponding to a force power (Ex: Battlemind, Energy Drain, Telepathy).
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I wonder if anyone who has played the Star Wars RPG has any insight into how well the force powers system worked, and whether or not this seems plausible. I would really like positive feedback on the system because it intrigues me, but I am prepared to hear some harsh criticism of it for some reason.
Totally, agree. To me, 'psionics' has never really felt like psychic powers. I don't think its so much the points (For example, I like Palladium's ISP system), but the presentation.
As for SW, I prefer the SWS system. Its more streamlined and IMO looks easier to convert. I was working on 'reskinning' the SWS force system as a psychic power system for pathfinder. I started by subbing in appropriate saves for defenses and upping all the DCs by 5. Haven't had a chance to playtest anything, though.
You may want to look at Green Ronin's The Psychic's Handbook. It presents another skill and feat based system, that might be easier to convert. They also offer several options to tailor the system to your specific needs. I think they may have based their system on SWRCR's force system.
As for feats, you might want to consider the Revised Star Wars system. That's more 3.5 in feat handling, so conversion might be a tad easier.
As for how the Force was handled....that's a whole different ball of wax. It too was a skill system, but you had to spend your own skill points between both normal skills and Force skills. In order to make them class skills, you needed the proper feats. A Jedi character started play with Force-Sensitive and his choice of Alter, Sense or Control, which opened more skills as class skills.
When you wanted to use the Force, you expended some Vitality (HP) and you rolled your skill check. The check determined the DC save, which capped at 25 for most of them. The stat entry said what kind of save it was (if any).
...Green Ronin's Psychic's Handbook, huh? Might have to look into that.
Yes. This is the system I was referring to. My goal is find a way to integrate 3.5 psionic powers with the SW RCR Force Skills concept. I am expecting to use the power descriptors as skills. For instance, a psionic character would put points into psychometabolism if they wanted to enhance their bodies with their powers. The powers are too numerous for me to break down alone, but I plan to tackle them as players use them.
A single skill rolled for each of the psionic ability types, but with a chance of utter failure as opposed to the SW RCR where even a natural 1 can give a minimal bonus or chance of success (the target may botch a save, a 5% chance).
This is the ultimate goal. I think it is feasible...
EDIT: Does the chance of failure make up for the lack of vitality point cost associated with force powers in the SW RCR?
I'll have to see where my Revised SW book went. However from a 3.5 Psionics stand I'd point out there is a feat "Expanded Knowledge" which allows for the selection of additional powers. You would have to assign everyone a Manifester Level and tweak the guts of Expanded Knowledge, but its one way to stuff powers into a "skill" structure.
If this was Pathfinder Skill System I'd say 1 Rank = 1 Manifester level and use something like the Psychic Warrior progression. For 1, 4, 7, and every 3 levels after you can access a new level of Max Power Level know.
I just discovered Green Ronin's Pychic class, and it might have exactly what you're looking for--a 3.5-based class with skill-based psychic powers. I'm super excited about it, and want to use it for my next game.
It doesn't have the weirder or flashier psionic powers, but it covers clairsentience, psychokinesis, psychometabolism, psychoportation, and telepathy pretty well. Plus, it looks like it'd be relatively easy to convert attack, buffing, and defensive powers/spells to this system.
Additionally, I found their Blue Rose product, which refluffs the system to be magic instead of psychic and adds some additional skills. Unfortunately, it uses some unusual rules options from Unearthed Arcana, so there'll be some modification involved, but nothing too difficult.
Now the only problem is getting enough skill points for everything I want to do!