Not really a rule, per se, but the "half orcs can get a +2 stat to anything" is by far my least favorite change from 3.5 to Pathfinder.
Half orcs should get a bonus to strength. End of story.Generally, I like most pathfinder rules fixes, though I think it gets too nicey-nice-and-let's-make-everyone-happy at times (everybody's a winner in skill points, nobody loses exp for crafting, everybody gets decent hit points).
I still use the beta stats. If they are described as bigger and stronger they should be bigger and stronger.
I am not complaining though. These guys do a good job.
I've found that the problem with rules interpretation is that, from a certain point of view, you really can't think too hard on them. For example, the channel energy thing: yes, it's never explicitly stated what a living creature is. But we generally know what a non-living creature is (lack of a Con score.) So we must assume that, unless otherwise told, a creature can be healed via channel energy.
Same with the sneak attack/critical thing - though that's somewhat harder if you're coming in from 3.X, as you also have to unlearn what you knew from 3.X. (If I were to have a major gripe against the Core Rulebook, it's that it doesn't stress enough that a lot has changed in minor ways that should be reviewed carefully before plunging forward. For example, my players and I still argue whether or not elves trance in Pathfinder.)
For example, my players and I still argue whether or not elves trance in Pathfinder.)
I read a comment on this somewhere around here a long time ago. As I recall, PF elves don't trance, but it was intentionally left vague enough (as in, no mention of it at all) so that you can pick whichever you prefer.
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I certainly wouldn't spend 15k just to get a boost to disarm. I'm fairly certain the item is intended to be exactly as written, and increases the bonus from weapon training by +2.Having thought about it some more, I agree. 15,000 gp is far too much for an item that only gives bonuses vs disarm and sunder. While it seems reasonable for an item that gives +2 to hit and damage.
k, I'll just be an fighter (archer), with a +1 longbow, greater bracers of archery, and gloves of dueling. by the time I'm 5th level (and exaggeratedly wealthy) and specialized, I'll have +1 from my bow, a +2 competence bonus from greater bracers of archery, +1 from weapon training I, +2 from the gloves of dueling, +1 from w. focus [ +7 to hit ], and +7 to damage [ +1 from bow, +1 competence bonus to damage, +1 damage from weapon training, +2 from gloves of dueling , +2 from specialization ] , since the bonus from gloves of dueling and bracers of archery stack.
my problem with 15,000gp for Gloves of Dueling is that its hands down better than Greater Bracers of Archery, which cost 10,000gp more than the gloves. The bracers are also a competence bonus, which if you have a bard in the group won't stack with Inspire Courage. So fighters get a cheaper item, with better bonuses ( +2/+2 and boosts to their CMB/CMD ), a +4 to CMD in general, and never have to worry about dropping their weapon, vs. +2 to hit/+1 to damage, and none of the rest. When you compare the Gloves to the Bracers, its a little easier to see that 15,000gp is very little to pay for such a great boon.
Yes , only fighters get this extra bonus for the gloves, and yes the bracers are restricted by martial proficiency in the bow, but just because its good for one class, doesn't mean it should be cheaper as an item. its still kick ass for fighters as soon as they can afford it. it becomes a must have item. which means its probably too good and needs to be taken down a peg for balance.
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mind you, for a fighter that's trying to disarm or sunder, i love these gloves. they really are dueling gloves. with or without the damage bonus from weapon training, you end up with a +2 to CMB checks with your weapon group, and +6 to CMD, you'll never be disarmed, and it goes a long way to making sunders and disarms possible especially at higher tiers where the CMD of enemies jumps up a lot.
I'm still stuck on how Fast Healing 1 makes you superman and obviates the necessity for healers.
Greater Bracers of Archery also convey bow proficiencies (but you don't get the bonus if you didn't previously know how to use a bow.. what?). They are pretty crappy holdover items. Of course, if you aren't a fighter, Gloves of Dueling are junk.
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I'm still stuck on how Fast Healing 1 makes you superman and obviates the necessity for healers.
Greater Bracers of Archery also convey bow proficiencies (but you don't get the bonus if you didn't previously know how to use a bow.. what?). They are pretty crappy holdover items. Of course, if you aren't a fighter, Gloves of Dueling are junk.
Not just not being a fighter. You have to be a 5th level fighter. Also you cannot have an archetype that replaced weapon training with something else. If you don't have weapon training, you can't improved weapon training.
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For example, my players and I still argue whether or not elves trance in Pathfinder.)I read a comment on this somewhere around here a long time ago. As I recall, PF elves don't trance, but it was intentionally left vague enough (as in, no mention of it at all) so that you can pick whichever you prefer.
From what I recall, Golarion elves sleep normally. The rule for the generic Pathfinder elf is left vague for retrocompatibily with 3.5.
Not just not being a fighter. You have to be a 5th level fighter. Also you cannot have an archetype that replaced weapon training with something else. If you don't have weapon training, you can't improved weapon training.I'm still stuck on how Fast Healing 1 makes you superman and obviates the necessity for healers.
Greater Bracers of Archery also convey bow proficiencies (but you don't get the bonus if you didn't previously know how to use a bow.. what?). They are pretty crappy holdover items. Of course, if you aren't a fighter, Gloves of Dueling are junk.
OTOH, I'm just glad to see an item based on a fighter feature. Should be expanded, but the idea is not bad per se.. It was time IMHO.
Sean Reynold's post of the millenium:
*facepalm*
I'm going to errata the hell out of that.
Didn't make sense for about half a second until I noticed "Developer" next to his name. Then it made a ton of sense. And I smiled on the inside. And the outside.
I've never known a company with a national (international?) reach browse it's own forums to notice discrepancies and such. It's very cool.
Same for Mr. James Jacobs. I appreciate you guys listening to the community! Unlike some former companies I used to game with...something about a new edition that nobody liked...I dunno. :-)
A+ to Paizo's team!
Although i have seen in one other company the devs frequent the forums and give their lights on some subjects and the intent of the rules, i have to say that Paizo really has impressed me.
Go team Paizo!!!PS. They weren't actually devs most of the times, there were the freelancers that frequent the forums, but then again at that time most of the company had thrown the keys to the freelancers and told them to turn off the lights when they were done.
Greater Bracers of Archery also convey bow proficiencies (but you don't get the bonus if you didn't previously know how to use a bow.. what?). They are pretty crappy holdover items. Of course, if you aren't a fighter, Gloves of Dueling are junk.
+1
just because its good for one class, doesn't mean it should be cheaper as an item.
Um ,that's exactly what it means.
which means its probably too good and needs to be taken down a peg for balance.
No it doesn't, gloves of dueling are a fighter only item. (or rather have a fighter only feature)
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From what I recall, Golarion elves sleep normally. The rule for the generic Pathfinder elf is left vague for retrocompatibily with 3.5.For example, my players and I still argue whether or not elves trance in Pathfinder.)I read a comment on this somewhere around here a long time ago. As I recall, PF elves don't trance, but it was intentionally left vague enough (as in, no mention of it at all) so that you can pick whichever you prefer.
I believe it was posted in another thread that one of the main reasons Golarion elves sleep normally is the 'reverie' wasn't OGL. So Paizo couldn't legally use it.
I believe it was posted in another thread that one of the main reasons Golarion elves sleep normally is the 'reverie' wasn't OGL. So Paizo couldn't legally use it.
I believe it was more of a deliberate choice to distinguish Golarion from other settings.
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Greater Bracers of Archery also convey bow proficiencies (but you don't get the bonus if you didn't previously know how to use a bow.. what?). They are pretty crappy holdover items. Of course, if you aren't a fighter, Gloves of Dueling are junk.+1
just because its good for one class, doesn't mean it should be cheaper as an item.
Um ,that's exactly what it means.
No it doesn't, gloves of dueling are a fighter only item. (or rather have a fighter only feature)
which means its probably too good and needs to be taken down a peg for balance.
Bracers of Archery 5, or 25k, are a limited class item too, since only the martial classes, and clerics under some deities, get proficiencies with multiple bows. rogues and bards get shortbow. and elves get natural bow training. but its still not universally accessable.
of course only fighters are going to use it for its extra class features. but what non fighter would pick up gloves of dueling anyway? its an item made for a specific class. its very valuable to characters that have that option, regardless of how valuable it is for members of other classes.
if i were to upgrade my weapon from +1 to +3, it would cost me 10,000gp. if i were already wielding a holy, or a flaming weapon , the upgrade to +3 enhancement would cost even more. With the gloves of dueling, I get the bonus to hit, the bonus to damage, independent of my weapon, and stacks with my weapon.
I'm done. i've listed the pros and cons in comparing the gloves of dueling to standard weapon purchasing and bracers of archery. if you want to insist that they're junk for fighters, go ahead. Yes your fighter isn't going to afford them until he's got 15,000gp to spend on it. but when it comes time to look into greater bracers of archery, or gloves of dueling, and you're a fighter? or you're over 5th level and a fighter, it's going to become a staple must have item for every fighter with the weapon training class feature, just like a +1 sword.
What's wrong with gloves of dueling being staple items for level 5+ fighters?
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From what I recall, Golarion elves sleep normally. The rule for the generic Pathfinder elf is left vague for retrocompatibily with 3.5.
A quote from Elves of Golarion, p.5:
Though elves are immune to magical sleep effects, the idea that they never rest is a myth. Instead, though they do not fall unconscious the way other humanoids do, elves may enter a deep trance that has the same refreshing effect on the mind as human sleep. An elf only needs to meditate in this fashion for 4 hours per day, though some prefer longer periods. During this rest, an elf performs habitual mental exercises, reviews old memories, allows his intuition to seek enlightenment, and so on.
So, actually elves don't sleep normally. They trance or meditate like they always did. A leftover from the old WFRP days, I guess.
The rule for the generic Pathfinder elf is left vague for retrocompatibily with 3.5.
Well, srd does not state anything about trancing. However, in the srd, none of the other races mention anything about trancing, so can half-orcs trance?
The rule for the generic Pathfinder elf is left vague for retrocompatibily with 3.5.Well, srd does not state anything about trancing. However, in the srd, none of the other races mention anything about trancing, so can half-orcs trance?
Elves do not sleep, as members of the other common races do. Instead, an elf meditates in a deep trance for 4 hours a day. An elf resting in this fashion gains the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep. While meditating, an elf dreams, though these dreams are actually mental exercises that have become reflexive through years of practice. The Common word for an elf’s meditation is “trance,” as in “four hours of trance.”
It isn't part of the SRD because they didn't include the descriptions of elves there. But it was definitely the standard for 3.5 elves.
The rule for the generic Pathfinder elf is left vague for retrocompatibily with 3.5.Well, srd does not state anything about trancing. However, in the srd, none of the other races mention anything about trancing, so can half-orcs trance?It isn't part of the SRD because they didn't include the descriptions of elves there. But it was definitely the standard for 3.5 elves.
Elves do not sleep, as members of the other common races do. Instead, an elf meditates in a deep trance for 4 hours a day. An elf resting in this fashion gains the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep. While meditating, an elf dreams, though these dreams are actually mental exercises that have become reflexive through years of practice. The Common word for an elf’s meditation is “trance,” as in “four hours of trance.”
I was referring to PF elves.
I was referring to PF elves.
Then why did you reference the SRD, which is a 3.5 document? Pathfinder's equivalent is the PRD.
Elves of Golarion was written under 3.5, where elves tranced. I don't know if it has officially been changed in print, but PF elves don't trance. Unless you happen to want them to (because you're using PF to play Forgotten Realms or some such).
I know James Jacobs has stated that Golarion (Pathfinder) elves sleep normally. The PRD doesn't talk about trances because none of the races in Pathfinder trance in the default setting.
*sees another elftrance conversation and promptly shoots himself in the head*