I have seen the future of this thread, and it is thus:
"O hai brick wall! It's no fun talking to you, because whatever I say, you don't listen to me, huh? You're tearing me APART, brick wall!"
I will post once in this thread.
I am insulted by those of you who are comparing those who are celebrating the death of arguably the epitome of evil in our day to those who celebrated the deaths of 1000s of innocents after 9/11.
There is no comparison, they are not related and you insult the 1000s of innocent victims by even doing such a comparison.
Bin Laden death was justified; those who are celebrating his death are justified in doing so, just as the millions who celebrated Hitler’s death. When a Man of such Evil leaves our world it is times to celebrate that departure in your own way (or not if you choose not to) not argue among each other and compare us to those that celebrate death of the innocent.
Then be insulted. That is not with malice, but understand that nobody is mourning his death, at least not me. The point of that statement(earlier in the thread) was that they had the same views on us that we had on them, and we both celebrated the same way. The statement by Anti elite and myself was not about whose perception was right. It was about the fact that we(us and the foreign celebrators) had the exact same reaction to death.
If you are going to be insulted be insulted at the point that was made, not the one that wasn't. The point that was not ever argued was how evil he was or whether he deserved to die. There was also no comparison between those that die for no reason and his death. Once again the point being made is that both parties were overjoyed at the death of those they did not like.
If you read this think about what I wrote and know that was the point.
What you were arguing was way out in left field.
Break down the walls!I have seen the future of this thread, and it is thus:
"O hai brick wall! It's no fun talking to you, because whatever I say, you don't listen to me, huh? You're tearing me APART, brick wall!"
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This was an assassination, that doesn’t necessarily make it a bad thing.No offense to anyone personally, and this is directed towards everyone arguing about this specific point:
Does it even matter?
Wait, I can answer that for you. It, uh... Oh, laundry's done. Keep the change hai doggy bye!
Not really (and really not to me), but this is the internet; if we only talked about things that mattered it’s be a lot quieter around here eh?
The problem is that once the political message goes out these days, anyone not agreeing is immediately called paranoid and a conspiracy theorist. It does not paint a pretty picture for the future of certain countries that this is the case.
My point is: There is something in this story that truly stinks. It may be entirely true, if so, the american soldiers assassinating him is bad enough. If there is more to it, well, as you said, we will know how far this is going to be used. War against Pakistan? Perhaps. Either way, this is going to be blurted out every time people want to discuss shutting down Guantanamo and other abhorrent practices of this and the current american administration, only nobody will ever know WHAT information from Guantanamo lead to this operation.
Too convenient. Or: There is something funny about this.
I don't know what you think of us Americans, but if Osama sends us into another war I can almost guarantee he won't get a 2nd term. I am sure in a few weeks people will be back to asking when we can bring the troops home.
Yeah, but she's new at this moderation gig, so it didn't stick.
Not really new at it, thanks. :)
My optimism got the better of me, as it generally does.
We'll see if it was well-founded or not.
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This was an assassination, that doesn’t necessarily make it a bad thing.No offense to anyone personally, and this is directed towards everyone arguing about this specific point:
Does it even matter?
Wait, I can answer that for you. It, uh... Oh, laundry's done. Keep the change hai doggy bye!
Not really (and really not to me), but this is the internet; if we only talked about things that mattered it’s be a lot quieter around here eh?
Hah! Nice.
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Relevant link!
I don't know what you think of us Americans, but if Oama sends us into another war I can almost guarantee he won't get a 2nd term. I am sure in a few weeks people will be back to asking when we can bring the troops home.
That was... OK, that was really funny.
Hah! Nice.This was an assassination, that doesn’t necessarily make it a bad thing.No offense to anyone personally, and this is directed towards everyone arguing about this specific point:
Does it even matter?
Wait, I can answer that for you. It, uh... Oh, laundry's done. Keep the change hai doggy bye!
Not really (and really not to me), but this is the internet; if we only talked about things that mattered it’s be a lot quieter around here eh?
What really matters is Batman's alignment...
Walked into the bakery again, the family is still grinning. Lots of jokes about the terrorists taking up fishing and diving en-mass. Also whether or not the SEAL team is going to have flashbacks every time they give a goldfish a 'burial at sea'.
Doesn't mean I don't share the sentiment 100%.Fake quote, btw."I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that"
— Martin Luther King Jr.
It does mean that you don't happen to share it with anyone that gives it the weight that MLK would.
I mean, honestly would you have posted that quote if it didn't have such a well respected name attached to it? Most likely not.
Damnit! How'd you get out? I told the others to get thicker chains....
I tried, but those chains were missing . . . looks like someone stole them.
This is just more proof that the Bush Administration didn't really want to find and kill Osama bin Laden. When Obama became president in 2009, he told the CIA director to make the capture/killing of Osama his #1 priority, and he did it in 2 years. It just goes to show that with the resources that America has, it was unforgivable that the Bush Administation couldn't do the same thing.
It is also more proof that President George W. Bush was the worst president of all time. You cannot deny that now. Also, I predict that Matthew Morris will attack me in the next post, because he knows that I am right...
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Don't feed the troll. Just flag him and move on.
As to targeted killings. I've never understood why it's *not* an option. I mean I understood (and laughed at) the Carter Justification "If we don't target their leadership for killing, they won't target us." But Carter's a dictator loving fool.
William Sherman, in a letter to Phil Sheridan (two of may favourite military men) said that he thought the quickest way to end the civil war was to kill all the leadership. (I'll look for the source when I get home.) I'm all for these kind of operations.
I'd also argue that killing Bin Laden wasn't the biggest part of this mission. If he was still in the AQ loop, the intel we might have dragged out of there would be bigger.
Bin Laden and AQ
Other aside, there's a big stink on the Interwebs that a Turkish actress posed in the German edition of Playboy. Can any of our German readers confirm/deny it's an issue?
Grant Morrison ruined him! RUINED I SAY!!!!
What really matters is Batman's alignment...
Then what really matters is what is Grant Morrisons alignment???
I suspect that dead is better then alive. Alive he would have a chance to craft his own martyrdom since there would be millions of camera's pointed at him whenever he got the chance to speak in such a trial. I doubt he'd even attempt to actually win such a trial and instead would focus on the opportunity to craft the message he wanted disseminated. Dead he's just a symbol that is now gone instead of a living example whose ideals some feel should be striven for.
Bury him with no fan fare in some secret location and that's that IMO.
Welcome to your second term, Mr. Obama.Not necessarily. Bush I won the war in Kuwait only a few months before the election but still got trounced by Clinton. Obama's critics will have a whole year to try to give Obama's predecessor the credit for this victory. It won't silence the Trump-led Birth movement one iota who still sees him as a black man who doesn't belong in the Oval Office. I don't think however he's nearly enough foolish to rest on the laurels of this momentary respite.
Wow. Still holding onto the race thing? My dislike for the man, and this goes for every conservative I know personally, has nothing to do with his skin color.
Hell, I think it's awesome that we have a black man as President. I just wish it wasn't that black man.
Hell, I think it's awesome that we have a black man as President. I just wish it wasn't that black man.
+1
Fake quote, btw.
Wikiquote Martin Luther King, Jr.
The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. Instead of diminishing evil, it multiplies it. Through violence you may murder the liar, but you cannot murder the lie, nor establish the truth. Through violence you may murder the hater, but you do not murder hate. In fact, violence merely increases hate. So it goes. ... Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that. -- 'Where Do We Go From Here?" as published in Where Do We Go from Here : Chaos or Community? (1967)
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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+1
Hell, I think it's awesome that we have a black man as President. I just wish it wasn't that black man.
I just find it a red herring. The 'birther' issue started in Hillary Clinton's camp (iirc). Besides was it racist when the issue of legitimacy was raised for McCain, Garfield, or Goldwater?
The race and Muslim sounding name of Barack Obama is the reason he has received so much hatred from the Rightwing. No one on the Left thought to question whether or not George W. Bush was born in America or was lying about being a Christian; we just took his word for it. Yes, it's because he is a BLACK man, and you all know it.
The execution of Osama bin Laden is a victory for America and for Barack Obama. It proves, once and for all, that the previous administration wasn't focused on capturing/killing Osama, because they were too busy with an idiotic, stupid, and useless war against Iraq, and then the pointless search for fake WMD's.
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The race and Muslim sounding name of Barack Obama is the reason he has received so much hatred from the Rightwing. No one on the Left thought to question whether or not George W. Bush was born in America or was lying about being a Christian; we just took his word for it. Yes, it's because he is a BLACK man, and you all know it.
The execution of Osama bin Laden is a victory for America and for Barack Obama. It proves, once and for all, that the previous administration wasn't focused on capturing/killing Osama, because they were too busy with an idiotic, stupid, and useless war against Iraq, and then the pointless search for fake WMD's.
Or that Bush worked for years and Obummer is taking credit for what little he had a hand in.......
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Obama's name could have been "George Washington", and there would still be calls about his birth certificate. In fact they'll be calls about his birth certificate no matter how many legal documents he produces so his best bet is to ignore them as long as possible.The race and Muslim sounding name of Barack Obama is the reason he has received so much hatred from the Rightwing. No one on the Left thought to question whether or not George W. Bush was born in America or was lying about being a Christian; we just took his word for it. Yes, it's because he is a BLACK man, and you all know it.
Why not have them all PROVE they are fit to hold that high office, regardless of color or ideology?
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I just find it a red herring. The 'birther' issue started in Hillary Clinton's camp (iirc). Besides was it racist when the issue of legitimacy was raised for McCain, Garfield, or Goldwater?+1
Hell, I think it's awesome that we have a black man as President. I just wish it wasn't that black man.
Or Andrew Jackson who had both his citizenship questioned and it was questioned whether or not his parents were married when he was born. Legitimacy questions indeed.
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The race and Muslim sounding name of Barack Obama is the reason he has received so much hatred from the Rightwing. No one on the Left thought to question whether or not George W. Bush was born in America or was lying about being a Christian; we just took his word for it. Yes, it's because he is a BLACK man, and you all know it.
The execution of Osama bin Laden is a victory for America and for Barack Obama. It proves, once and for all, that the previous administration wasn't focused on capturing/killing Osama, because they were too busy with an idiotic, stupid, and useless war against Iraq, and then the pointless search for fake WMD's.
Yep the president was focused on fake WMDs. So much so that he was able to retroactively convince President Clinton and Vice President Gore to believe that they existed.
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He's not taking credit, some people are giving him credit. There's a pretty big difference. Best I can tell, Obama seems happy to let the credit go to the soldiers and CIA Operatives who made the whole thing possible.
Although, truth be told, having the cajones to authorize such an operation does deserve some credit.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'd also argue that killing Bin Laden wasn't the biggest part of this mission. If he was still in the AQ loop, the intel we might have dragged out of there would be bigger.
Bin Laden and AQ
Don't mean to be replying to myself (they make drugs for that) but looks like I might be right about the intel
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Don't mean to be replying to myself (they make drugs for that) but looks like I might be right about the intelI'd also argue that killing Bin Laden wasn't the biggest part of this mission. If he was still in the AQ loop, the intel we might have dragged out of there would be bigger.
Bin Laden and AQ
yay intel
The race and Muslim sounding name of Barack Obama is the reason he has received so much hatred from the Rightwing. No one on the Left thought to question whether or not George W. Bush was born in America or was lying about being a Christian; we just took his word for it. Yes, it's because he is a BLACK man, and you all know it.
The execution of Osama bin Laden is a victory for America and for Barack Obama. It proves, once and for all, that the previous administration wasn't focused on capturing/killing Osama, because they were too busy with an idiotic, stupid, and useless war against Iraq, and then the pointless search for fake WMD's.
1. The birth controversy started in the Hillary Clinton camp during the campaign. I didn't realize she was part of the right-wing (let alone the Rightwing).
2. Question GW Bush's eligibility? No. Question John McCain's? Bet your rear-end they did. Somehow that wasn't racist, though...
3. If you bothered to do even a limited amount of research/listening/reading on the op that took bin Laden down, you'll find that it started 4 years ago and following the sources and leads took this long to be able to pull the op together. Last time I checked, Obama wasn't president 4 years ago.
It certainly is a victory for Mr. Obama. It's also a victory for Mr. Bush because the operation was a culmintation of an intelligence operation that started under his watch.
More important than a political pissing match, however, it's a victory for the US military; the victims, survivors, and family members of those lost in the 9/11 attacks and other bin Laden-directed attacks; the United States of America at large; and the world as a whole.
When I heard about bin Laden's death, I was thankful as an American. Right vs. Left, Republican vs. Democrat didn't enter into it. I find it a bit demoralizing that even an event such as this can't be a patch of common ground amongst the partisan divide of day-to-day politics.
But it's SOOOO much more productive to view it through your Leafar-Reality-Lens. That must be some really good sh!t you're taking, bro.
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The US killed a man in another country. "Tragically, he was killed when resisting arrest..." they'll say. Then they bury him at sea the very same day, "so he can't become a martyr".
This stinks.
One, if the US really had killed him now, they would have taken the body to be showed off, come hell or high water. NOTHING would have stood in the way of being able to prove he has really been killed.
Two, if this was a lie, that means he's either already dead, or he's not.
Three, if he wasn't dead, they would risk him showing up somewhere in a few years' time, so he must be dead.
Four, if I remember correctly, he needed dialysis back in 2001. Expected survival in that situation is... pissy. A few years. I doubt getting health care back in some Afghan caves would have improved things.
Five, the timing is impeccable, with the end of the US military presence closing in, and Obama needing popularity figures.
Six, the decision to do this was likely a prelude to war in Pakistan. Within days, the accusations of sheltering him will fly. Either Pakistan will then give the US whatever they want, or there will be war. Again. Yay. Against a nuclear power.
If I were you, americans, I would be VERY sad today.
One, as dumb conspiracy theories made up on the fly go, this is particularly dumb.
Two, since bin laden was made of high tensile steel, he couldn't have been killed by mere mortal bullets anyway, which is why the US government had to use depleted uranium super bullets or else he would just rise again as a zombie two days later.
Three, zombies exist, and the world is hollow. If it wasn't hollow, why haven't the zombies overrun all of humanity?
Four, if it's so easy to fake the killing of bin laden, why didn't anyone have the bright idea of doing that, oh, I don't know, before an important election (04 president, 06 midterms, 08 president, 10 midterms) or maybe wait until another important election arrives (like 12, maybe)?
There's a fine line between paranoid, and...
You are the best pony EVAR!!!!!!
Flag and forget people, it is easier that way.
But it's SOOOO much more productive to view it through your Leafar-Reality-Lens.Someone needs to stat this up!
Yeah but it will be in 4E.
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Andrew Jackson disregarded a supreme court ruling and engaged in what wasn't far removed from genocide.
Everyone has presidents that they think are horrible simply because they lived through their presidency, but let's keep stuff in perspective.
You lived through Andrew Jackson's presidency?!? Damn, you're old!!! So, what is your secret for immortality?
Just putting a dot here nothing to see folks.
Grant Morrison ruined him! RUINED I SAY!!!!
What really matters is Batman's alignment...
I have had enough of you "Morrison Bashing"!!! You sir are as UN-AMERICAN as they come!!!
....even though Morrison's a Brit...