But it needs to be said. Before anyone gets mad at me and types "this is fake and straight", I am bisexual with a boyfriend, as well as a mild Christian. I just think a balanced view, bringing facts to light, is a necessity, if not by Christian doctrine then by many other doctrines.
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
CourtFool wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Congratulations, You can spend a couple of million getting married and I'm not allowed (gay). Yay for you.
I did not even consider that. I fully support your right to marry whom you wish.
I appreciate that, but I need more senators to agree with you. Or actually have a separation of church and state. I'm of the opinion that if a religious institution chooses to get political (which admittedly needs very clear definition) then they should have their tax exempt status removed. Alternately they can just remove the exempt status entirely since religion has become such big business, but that's another rant entirely.
You're pissed. I don't blame you. I didn't watch, my mother did and threw a huge shindig (seriously, you'd think it was her non-existent daughter getting married, and we're both Americans). I was not amused.
But do you even want to consider the other side of this? I don't think you have.
Political parties are religions nowadays. What is touting the party line but another way of reading the Bible or Koran/Quran/however you spell it? What is a political discussion except another damn Crusade? Seriously, people treat politicians like God and demand that God get removed from everything (unless they want His name on EVERYTHING, which is just as wrong).
Also, religions are not "big business" unless you're referring to Scientology, in which case you're still not right - that's not a religion. To call it a cult is an insult to cults, IMHO. Although, if you removed the tax-exempt thing, it'd bomb the Sci's and they'd throw a hissy fit and then maybe we could put them to bed finally, or at least make their "vaulted knowledge" free to read like the Bible. Sure, you have to buy the book, but you can read it online too, in many, MANY versions.
Separation of church and state is a good thing. However, what we forget is that many of the Founding Fathers, despite being in a Renaissance era were quite religious. Of course, that was still the norm of the day, so maybe it doesn't mean much. But then we get into the fact that for many people, "separation of church and state" means removal of all churches you don't agree with. You can't deny this.
And then we get to your insinuation that marriage is not a church thing.
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Jeremy Mcgillan wrote:
I hope this makes you feel better, I am a married gay man. I live in Canada, in fact here in Canada gay marriage is almost completely normalized (as in not a big deal at all). Eventually that may happen where you live, I can only hope it does.
The US has a lot of hardcore right wing backwoods redneck idiot religious leaders who keep us from being more progressive. Frankly, any remotely logical person will see the gay marriage issue as a non-issue. The fact that we've been "debating" it as long as we have is ludicrous.
Again, I admit I'm somewhat bitter. I have been with the same man for almost six years and I can't marry him due to the "preservation of the sanctity of marriage." Whereas, a hetero couple can go to Vegas the same weekend they meet and get married by a drag-queen Elvis impersonator only to get divorced a week later. Because that's what "God intended."
First of all, I agree with Jeremy. I live in the US and think gay marriage should be legalized. However, it will never happen in that name. Why?
Because marriage is, by its very nature, a religious ceremony bonding two people together for what should be eternity. "'Till death do you part", after all. So Christian churches have the right to ban such marriages if they want. If they don't, they'll get some gaff but they'll also get some more people.
Second, yes you are bitter. You are more righteous in your beliefs than the Westboro Baptists. And you're just as wrong to be bitter and angry.
Quote:
The US has a lot of hardcore right wing backwoods redneck idiot religious leaders who keep us from being more progressive.
I love how you keep piling on insults like that's all they deserve is bile. I for one will take the backwoods and the fresh air over the city and its garbage in all the streets any day of the week. City people wouldn't last a day in the event of an apocalypse; the people out in the country would live a good deal longer due to having abundant nature (which I thought lefties enjoyed, so why do they all congregate in cities?). And that's just a start.
"Keep us from being more progressive"? Yeah...that's actually a good thing...you see, the "progressives" aren't really on your side. They just like your vote. Remember the KKK? Jim Crowe (sp?) laws? All Democrat-created. It wasn't until like the 1950s that they actually decided "Hey, black people are numerous, and they seem to be pretty gullible. Let's play friends and then shoot to the top of the political ladder!" Unfortunately, everyone's forgotten this. With this kind of history, and especially considering the South was entirely made of them during the Civil War, can you honestly trust them?
And no, the Republicans aren't much better (at least in modern day). But Abraham Lincoln was Republican, expanded state power, and not only took steps to preserve the Union (including letting slavery hold), but had to deal with the Southern Dems that, at the time, were literally bullying the main government. The Civil War started because one of the Southern States had a Federal fort that ran out of supplies; they said, quite literally, "You give that base supplies, it's an act of war on our soil!" He then eventually freed the slaves and then set about to rebuild the South after the war.
Then the South (still Dems!) decided to make laws to make it impossible for black people to vote, and then more Amendments were made, and stuff STILL didn't get fully fixed until the 1950s (or was it 40s? I can't remember now and don't want to Google it...).
Yes, debating gay marriage should be a non-issue, but if wishes were fishes, beggars would eat, or something.
And then we get to Vegas. You DO, of course, realize that these are only state-managed marriages, and thus are not "real" marriages in the eyes of God, right? They're not church-sanctioned. I'm pretty sure any Christian worth their salt would cringe at the mere mention of such a wedding. I know I do - that crap should be outlawed, period.
Hell, back during the 30s and earlier, when people weren't into all this new-age wicca stuff that "has been around for centuries before Christianity" (new-age + old =/= logic), divorce used to be a thing no one even talked about, because it was so scandalous. Now it's an everyday thing. Think it has anything to do with the current state of affairs, especially in the political arena? Think it has to do with the kids in homes of multiple kids and one parent, or the rising crime rate, or the rising homeless rate? How about our fiscal problems? "Tax more, then spend more so we stop losing money" doesn't work, period.
Everyone loves to rag on the Christians and the "right-wingers" (read: anyone who's not a left-winger). I guess we're easy targets for some reason. Must be all the mistakes we made in the past, but oops! Don't say that anyone else made mistakes, or you're violating the Sacred Law of Political Correctness and making someone feel bad! Does anyone notice the stink raised over any perceived insult to Islam? (Clitorectomies legal? In MY modern world? It's more likely than you think) Does anyone notice how often socialism (which is literally the same damn thing as communism) is protected by everyone, when it's been proven in the lab of the world to not work?
No, the far-right bass turds aren't right. But you can't pretend the solution is "more of the same, just on another end of the spectrum".
TL;DR: Read Animal Farm. Read 1984. Read Brave New World. Think they can't happen? They already have, and it's the fault of ALL our politicians.
