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Unless you have death traps, rogues aren't very important. Sure, you take some extra damage, but it's nothing that can't be healed up with a wand of cure light wounds.
What is important is having someone with a high perception skill for secret doors and noticing things. The cleric can pick that up or someone else can, but it's important.
Have fun walking to the teleport trap.
"Don't worry, we got the cures!"
Not since AD&D anyway.
you got me, but most trapsmiths aren't just up to par with Light Yagami.
For the most part, sooooo true.
Deadly Treasure; now that had some memorable traps.
I just wanted to add that the rogue player in my group has gone rogue. (Or more accurately, AWOL, but I couldn't resist the pun.)
For now, I ruled that Disable Device is a class skill for Sorcerers, gave the sorcerer a skill point in it and Deft Hands for free. That should be enough to get through the trap-laden goblin mine in the purchased adventure.
But I am inspired by some of the ideas here on better traps. Need to get the creative juices flowing.
Not since AD&D anyway.
you got me, but most trapsmiths aren't just up to par with Light Yagami.For the most part, sooooo true.
Deadly Treasure; now that had some memorable traps.
Of course, "memorable traps" make for "terrible games" because only in hindsight is "my party got wiped out by an undetectable, uncounterable trap" entertaining.
Came up with this:
Time to get Chuck the Rogue.
- 150 lb. log
- Iron riveting with inset handholds on the side
With the above I'm thinking we can:
1. Open Doors - use as a battering ram
2. Find Traps - roll down a hallway (handholds are inset)
3. Open Locks - see #1 above
What else could we use Chuck the Rogue for?
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Came up with this:
Time to get Chuck the Rogue.
- 150 lb. log
- Iron riveting with inset handholds on the side
With the above I'm thinking we can:
1. Open Doors - use as a battering ram
2. Find Traps - roll down a hallway (handholds are inset)
3. Open Locks - see #1 aboveWhat else could we use Chuck the Rogue for?
Be your wingman when trying to hook up with that dryad at the other end of the bar?
Yes. It does.We mostly miss the rogue on opening locks, really, but it's surprising what you can do to open things with a big hammer and chisel, or an old beaten up waraxe. Those chests and doors seem to open right up.Obligatory:
The chest is made of old wood, banded with rusting metal. Fingerprints captured in soot are abundant on the lid and sides. It does not give off an aura of magic, but a tug at the lid tells you it is locked.
Now what?
Hit it with a hammer or waraxe until it breaks
** spoiler omitted **
Actually gunpowder just needs pressure... If you pinch it hard enough like when you hit a hammer on a hard surface, then boom.
Actually gunpowder just needs pressure... If you pinch it hard enough like when you hit a hammer on a hard surface, then boom.Yes. It does.We mostly miss the rogue on opening locks, really, but it's surprising what you can do to open things with a big hammer and chisel, or an old beaten up waraxe. Those chests and doors seem to open right up.Obligatory:
The chest is made of old wood, banded with rusting metal. Fingerprints captured in soot are abundant on the lid and sides. It does not give off an aura of magic, but a tug at the lid tells you it is locked.
Now what?
Hit it with a hammer or waraxe until it breaks
** spoiler omitted **
But you would have to fill the chest completely full with gunpowder. So full that setting it down anything but real easy would make a mess - of you. Otherwise, you would just break the chest with no explosion.
Have fun walking to the teleport trap. "Don't worry, we got the cures!"
What teleportation trap, where? Sure, if you're in the Tomb of Horrors, a rogue is important. Otherwise, not that important.
If that wasn't true, a rogue would be a requirement for every single adventuring party, which it isn't. Lots of players have finished APs and PF scenarios without a rogue. In my current AP, I've gone through almost the entire AP and there isn't a single trap or scenario that cannot be beaten without a rogue. They're written this way on purpose. Show me otherwise.
In addition, without the rogue talent, a rogue won't necessarily even be looking for traps and could walk into it like anyone else. Or he could fail in detecting the trap. In which case we're back at the argument that you can live without rogues.
If you're running a homebrew campaign with a trap every 5', you need a rogue. But that's a very campaign specific.
Of all classes the rogues the class you can easiest go with out. It's easy enough to pick the skill disable device and for some classes it's a class skill like the Alchemist. As for skills quite a few classes get 6 skill and lot class skills like the Ranger, Inquisitor, and Bard. Combat ability well a Ranger in place of the rogue takes care of that. For the pesky magic traps, have a wizard handy with Dispel magic or utilities to bypass the damage. Like it's a fire trap so have have resist fire up on the person opening the chest.
The rogue is a fun class but hardly needed at all. Not like lacking a healer.
Of all classes the rogues the class you can easiest go with out. It's easy enough to pick the skill disable device and for some classes it's a class skill like the Alchemist. As for skills quite a few classes get 6 skill and lot class skills like the Ranger, Inquisitor, and Bard. Combat ability well a Ranger in place of the rogue takes care of that. For the pesky magic traps, have a wizard handy with Dispel magic or utilities to bypass the damage. Like it's a fire trap so have have resist fire up on the person opening the chest.
The rogue is a fun class but hardly needed at all. Not like lacking a healer.
There is no healer class.
The rogue is a great class for making certain types of character concepts, but isn't essential in a lot of adventures. I am running a campaign that features a lot of ocean travel and activity onboard ships, and the rogues (yes, there's more than one) really shine. There are a lot of skills that are needed to keep a ship operating, and rogue abilities like ledge-walking come in handy often.
(As a side note, one of the characters has multi-classed as a rogue/druid, and noticed that this combination makes every skill a class skill.)
As far as traps are concerned, they're just like any other element a GM can use. If every encounter has a trap, they get monotonous quickly, and it's hard to explain why everyone has traps set up. Better to set up the occasional encounter that's trap heavy. Maybe the home of a crazy old survivalist who has spent the last decade rigging traps around his compound out in the woods, or something like that.