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Howdy all.
I am planning on GMing Rise of the Runelords when it's next my turn in the big chair. When Carrion Crown came out I faltered for a moment, but have decided to stay strong and do the prep and conversion work on RotRL. Plus, having played through RotRL will put my players in an excellent place to tackle Jade Regent.
So far, I am still in the early stages. I've been playing around with a few things but haven't committed anything to paper--physical or electronic--until now.
Below are a few of the ideas I've had (or cribbed) to tweak the opening stanzas of RotRL. I'd love to hear from others who'd like to share their experiences and in doing so help me with my prep work. Feel free to tell me which ideas you like and which you don't. And don't be shy with any criticism, I have a thick skin!
If by some crazy twist of fate and probability my players have managed to find their way here and are reading this: stop! Here be spoilers.
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Part 1: Pre-Game Stuff
- Father Abstalar Zantus, male Chelaxian human Cleric of Desna, Sandpoint High Priest, new to the role but doing well
- Garridan Viskalai, male Shoanti, proprietor of the White Deer Inn, feels wistful about his youth among the Shoanti tribes
From this list of NPCs, each player can choose five (first come first served) with whom he is intimately familiar. For those five, the player will receive expanded backgrounds and a boon. For example, choosing Das Korvut could result in reduced crafting costs for weapons, choosing Sabyl Sorn would open the House of Blue Stones' library without need for a Diplomacy check, choosing Alma Alvertin will open up a sidequest to Chopper's Isle for more XP and so on.
The boon from a merchant is easy--a discount. The boon from other NPCs will be harder for me to think up (and therefore probably much more enjoyable to explore).
I am contemplating removing metamagic feats from the game entirely--in 4-5 years of gaming with this group I've never seen one of them take a metamagic feat, so I feel on fairly safe ground from that perspective.
Having said that, my plans have some thematic basis as well.
Thassilonian rune magic is said to be powerful. I thought that giving only characters trained in the Thassilonian arts access to these metamagic effects would be a neat way to distinguish Thassilonian magic from regular magic. And metamagic rods would then make awesome loot (they'd obviously no longer be available for purchase or crafting).
I am using a 25 point-buy. That could (in my estimation) make things something of a breeze for the PCs. I mean, yes, they're meant to be the heroes, but they are also meant to be in believable danger from time to time. So as a broad rule, unnamed NPCs (aka 'cannon fodder') get the basic array, named NPCs with PC levels get the heroic array, and special opponents and allies get a 20 point-buy. Those special NPCs in Burnt Offerings are (in no particular order):
- Tsuto Kaijitsu
- Ameiko Kaijitsu
- Shalelu Andosana
- Father Zantus
- Isoari Gandethus
- Nualia Tobyn
- Orik Vancaskerkin
- Lyrie Akenja
- Chief Ripnugget
- Niska Mvashti
- Aldern Foxglove
- Gogmurt
- Bruthazmus
Note neither Erylium nor Malfeshnikor are on that list; (a) they are tough enough to beat already, and (b) the purpose of this boost to 20pt buy is to give the PCs a handful of competent allies/meaningful enemies. As written, neither Erylium nor Malfeshnikor are meant to be really meaningful enemies (although Erylium has several ways of becoming one, depending on how the confrontaiton with her ends up going); they are more plot devices/XP blocks to be broken open.
I plan on setting up at least two and possibly up to four rival adventuring groups who will work in parallel with the PCs. The nature of the rivalry between the groups will be up to the players as things develop, but broadly I am looking to put together some or all of the following possible groups. Note the names are merely working titles to keep them straight in my head. The alignments are also more a broad brush to guide my thinking than they are prescriptive.
[list]
I don't have any CE representatives in that list largely because I see them as being too unstable to form a serious part of a coherent adventuring group that's meant to rise from 1st to 16th level.
As well as just getting to have fun creating somewhere between 8-16 GM-controlled PCs (who will all be built on 20 point buy), I have two important thematic elements I want to embrace with this design change.
First, I want Karzoug's awakening to have broader repercussions for Varisia and the Lost Coast (and heck, much of the surrounds as well) than are depicted in the AP. I mean, if you really think about it, as far as the AP is concerned much of the material--especially in the middle--is only tangentially connected to Karzoug himself. As a GM I need to tie that material back to him more clearly in order to build him up as a believable and memorable villain, and I also want to broaden his horizons. If he has so many folks up in his lovely city serving him (directly or indirectly), I'm sure there are plenty of other places where the locals have started getting Sihedron tattoos.
The idea is that the PCs will hear of the exploits of these rival parties from time to time, and at least once they will find themselves pursuing the same objectives. How the PCs interact with the rival parties will influence the endgame, where (depending on the feedback I get from this board, and my players) I may have all five adventuring teams assaulting Xin-Shalast simultaneously. Woe betide the PCs though if the Reprobates are the ones who bring Karzoug down--not that I would ever let that happen to my PCs, but it might make for an interesting after-boss-fight...
Secondly, rival adventuring groups create so many more opportunities for the PCs to express sins of pride, wrath, sloth, lust, envy... And you just know that's going to come back and bite them. : )
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All right, if you've read this far I feel sorry for you. Go have a break and put some eye drops in. But thank you nonetheless.
In my next post I'll start looking at either what I'm doing to introduce the players to the setting in the first session, or at my plans to modify some of the NPCs and convert them to Pathfinder rules.
Thanks,
--Mike
This is rather interesting as I'm currently going through the same process.
I hope you don't mind the dot.
This is rather interesting as I'm currently going through the same process.
I hope you don't mind the dot.
Heck no. Everyone is welcome to steal whatever they like for their own campaign. This kind of collaboration is one of my favourite parts of the roleplaying hobby. : )
Sounds like you have some really good ideas going. As far as the stat buy badguys, Ive been doing that as well. We are only on a 20pt buy, but I really dont see why all the bad guys ought to be push-overs ;)
Plus you have what was it? Six players? I reckon a bad guy with decent stats is almost mandatory with that many PCs! I ran a one-shot adventure a few months ago, adapted from a PFS scenario, which finished with a 10th-level wizard. She rolled poorly on initiative and was killed by the end of round 1. That was the first time I had GMed Pathfinder (or any D&D variant) and taught me a lot about what it takes to make a single bad guy stand up to the PCs in a fight--which is to say, don't make the fight fair!
The tables were turned when several weeks later I found myself with three other level 3 players struggling to take on a hill giant who was standing on top of a canyon pelting rocks at us in the defile below after we were trapped between landslides in front and behind. That was unpleasant.
My current thinking is that when we're about to reach Xanesha, I'll warn my players that the next series of encounters has resulted in a great many TPKs, and would they like me to tone down the central bad guy so that he/she is still a challenge, but not easy TPK material? Knowing them, they'll say hell no. Then I will ask them to prepare backup characters in time for the following week's session. ; )
--Mike
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Definitely have to make things more difficult. They beat Nualia last session, who I statted as a lvl 6 Antipaladin. She might have TPKed them if it wasnt for one of the rangers drawing a greatsword and critting her twice in a row, lol.
Of course, she probably only lasted as long as she did cause the yeth hound made half the party run away, lol.
Ah, the yeth hounds. This might be a worthwhile point for me to discuss another concept I intend to drag into my version of Rise of the Runelords.
I've seen more than a few threads asking how to extend RotRL to 20th level. The answer seems obvious--have them go up against Mhar.
Not directly, obviously; Mhar, in my mind, should remain an unknowable ur-horror that mere mortals are incapable of confronting. But the heroes can try to prevent Mhar's rebirth by destroying its cult.
But what I certainly don't want to do is say, after Spires of Xin-Shalast, "you discover that Karzoug was merely being manipulated by agents of a horror from beyond the stars--better gear up and get back out there." I need to introduce Mhar more organically than that.
I intend to do so through a few relatively minor changes to the other chapters. My ideas are in their infancy, but I fully intend to sprinkle some otherworldly horrors throughout the Adventure Path (e.g. replacing the yeth hounds with achaierai) and introducing a sanity mechanic. I also intend to have a Knowledge (forbidden lore) skill that the players won't know exists--I will award ranks in it to begin with rather than allowing players to gain ranks on their own. Nualia will have a small library that hopefully one of the PCs will want to study, which will give him or her a point in Knowledge (forbidden lore) and start them on the road to insanity.
I am also considering replacing Malfeshnikor with something else, but I'm not sure what. Perhaps a hound of Tindalos.
Another challenge will be adapting the story of The Scribbler to something that fits--along with possibly doing away with the entirety of Runeforge.
Those aside, at this stage I think I will have Mokmurian as an agent of Mhar rather than an agent of Karzoug. Barl Breakbones won't know the truth, but Mokmurian will--probably the books at the Vale of the Black Tower will (among other things!) detail Shalast's efforts to summon Mhar in the first place. The eldritch influence of the library at the Vale, combined with the denizens of Leng in Xin-Shalast taking Mokmurian into their confidence and training his mind, will allow him to resist Karzoug's attempt to turn him.
Thus, Mokmurian will become the chief architect of not only Karzoug's release, but also Mhar's. I am unsure whether I will leave Mokmurian where he is as the boss of Fortress of the Stone Giants, or put someone else in his place and have Mokmurian as the BBEG of the whole 20-level AP.
All this means that in my version of the AP, Thassilon will have fallen because they summoned one too many things from beyond the veil, disrupting the natural order and causing their empire to slide into the sea as Mhar tried to manifest into the Material Plane.
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Like I said, all my ideas are still in their infancy, so much of this is pretty much me just thinking out loud, but the overall plan is there and I think it will hang together when I get to working out the details. At the moment it looks like the next opportunity I'll have to run a game will be around December this year, so I have some time to think about it!
The next challenge in adapting the plot: adding flumphs without unintentionally turning the campaign into a comedy. Wish me luck!
--Mike
Spent some time converting over RotRl to Pathfinder. One thing to keep in mind (that I did not the first time I ran it). A D&D CR is one higher than it should be in Pathfinder...so either add class levels to everyone, or lower their CR and adjust to that however you like...
As far as conversions I have so far...here is a list of NPCs and what I made them...most of them arn't finished, but the basics are done (little to no gear and maybe missing skills), if your interested in anyone let me know and I'll post up their stats.
Tsuto = monk2/ninja2
Erylium = summoner 3
Ripnuget = cavalier (dragon) 5
Nualia = antipaladin 4
Alderan = gunslinger 5
Ironbriar = magus8/rogue1
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cyn: those sound like some hefty changes to be making. Whenever the game gets up off the ground, I hope you will post about your sessions. Id love to read how they go.
Fraust: Mine went something like:
Tsuto- Ninja 4
Erylium- Summoner 3
Ripnugget- Cavalier: Cockatrice 5
Gogmurt- Druid 5
Bruthazmus- Ranger 2
Orik- Shielded Fighter 4
Lyrie- Diviner Wizard 4
Nualia- Antipaladin 6
Still working on Aldern and Ironbriar. Gunslinger Im not fond of atm, and I disallowed playtest characters for the game, so it wouldnt be fair for me to have them face one, lol. Wait, I already broke that rule with Tsuto...hmmmm. Ironbriar as a Magus though is interesting. Hmmmmm.
cyn: those sound like some hefty changes to be making. Whenever the game gets up off the ground, I hope you will post about your sessions. Id love to read how they go.
Thanks for the interest! I will have some sort of record of progress up somewhere (whether it's primarily in this thread or over on my Obsidian Portal account), so no need to worry there. Not entirely sure how complete the reports will be; that will depend on how much time I have available.
As for the named NPCs, with the exception of Erylium (who I've made a Witch), I haven't got to statting them up yet. Ninja makes sense for Tsuto--and Ameiko, for that matter--but otherwise I am contemplating the following:
Goblin Warchanters: Savage Skald
Goblin Commandos on goblin dogs: Mounted Fury
Aldern: Aristocrat/Rake
Gresgurt: Savage Barbarian (not that it makes any difference at L1...)
Shalelu: Infiltrator
Tsuto: Ninja (good idea, hadn't thought of that...); maybe multiclass with Zen Archer
Erylium: Witch
Koruvus: ??? Probably leave him as straight Fighter.
Gogmurt: Probably leave him as straight Druid.
Commandos at Thistletop: Not sure, possibly Scout.
Ripnugget: Probably Roughrider
Bruthazmus: Possibly Shapeshifter, possibly Invulnerable Rager
Orik: Shielded Fighter
Lyrie: Probably Diviner, will wait to see what comes out in Ultimate Magic
Nualia: Still mulling over this one.
Malfeshnikor: Replace with hound of Tindalos? Perhaps Nualia saw into its mind and went mad.
That's all I've got so far.
--Mike
Hmm. Having said I had no idea about Nualia, I had a think about it and wondered--could I change her from a Cleric to an Inquisitor? I thought her background might lend itself to such a build...so here she is, as a Fighter/Inquisitor, and built on a 20 point buy. Apologies for the dodgy formatting in several areas (e.g. Flaming Burst Sword, Bastard), but this is how Hero Lab spits it out...
Let me know what you think, if you can spare the time/are interested. I am particularly excited with the image I have in my head--the heroes walk in to see Nualia seated casually in one of the chairs, a leg hooked over one one arm. She has her bastard sword out, point down, and is twirling it nonchalantly. She engages them in a brief conversation (2-4 rounds), then gets up, spits out an epithet, shouts "if you think you can take me down then show me what you've got!" as her sword bursts into flames and she charges headlong into the PC at the front.
She will lose somewhere between 4-6 rounds of her pre-cast spells, but I think this is much cooler than simply saying "you walk in and Nualia is there. Roll initiative."
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Female Aasimar Fighter (Weapon Master) 2/Inquisitor 4
CE Medium Outsider (Native)
Init +1; Senses Darkvision (60 feet); Perception +12
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DEFENSE
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AC 19, touch 12, flat-footed 19. . (+7 armor, +2 deflection)
hp 49 (2d10+4d8+12); Judgement of Profane Healing 2
Fort +10, Ref +2, Will +6
Defensive Abilities Judgement of Profane Protection +1; DR Judgement of Profane Resiliency 1: Magic; Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5, Judgement of Profane Purity +1, Judgement of Profane Resistance 4 (Fire)
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OFFENSE
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Spd 20 ft.
Melee +1 Flaming Burst Sword, Bastard +7 (1d10+13/19-20/x2) and claw +1 (1d6+8/20/x2)
Ranged Longbow, Comp. (Str +4) +7 (1d8+8/20/x3)
Special Attacks Judgement of Profane Destruction +2, Judgement of Profane Justice +1, Judgement of Profane Piercing +2, Judgement of Profane Smiting (Magic), Vision of Madness (4/day)
Spell-Like Abilities Daylight (1/day), Detect Alignment (At will), Vision of Madness (4/day)
Inquisitor Spells Known (CL 4, +9 melee touch, +7 ranged touch):
2 (1/day) Flames of the Faithful, Spiritual Weapon
1 (4/day) Shield of Faith, Divine Favor, Cause Fear (DC 12), Cure Light Wounds (DC 12)
0 (at will) Daze (DC 11), Detect Magic, Bleed (DC 11), Brand (DC 11), Guidance, Resistance
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TACTICS
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Before Combat If Nualia suspects combat is imminent, she casts shield of faith and divine favor on herself.
During Combat Nualia activates her sihedron medallion as a free action at the start of combat to gain false life, and pronounces a judgement of destruction upon her foes. On her first action, she casts flames of the faithful. She prefers to fight with her bastard sword, her face an impassive mask save for her eyes, which blaze with anger. She sends her yeth hound to flank her preferred target and uses her Solo Tactics class feature to gain the benefits of her Outflank feat. She uses her Power Attack feat, and attempts to sunder any obviously dangerous weapons--especially if her opponent is only carrying a single melee weapon.
Morale Nualia fights to the death.
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STATISTICS
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Str 18, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 14
Base Atk +5; CMB +9 (+11 Sundering); CMD 21 (22 vs. Disarm; 24 vs. Sunder)
Feats Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Sword, Bastard, Improved Sunder, Lamashtu's Mark (1/day), Outflank, Power Attack -2/+4, Weapon Focus: Sword, Bastard
Skills Acrobatics -3, Climb +1, Escape Artist -3, Fly -3, Handle Animal +9, Intimidate +15, Knowledge: Religion +7, Perception +12, Ride +3, Sense Motive +3, Spellcraft +6, Stealth -3, Survival +6, Swim +1 Modifiers Monster Lore
Languages Celestial, Common
SQ Inquisitor Domain: Madness, Judgement (2/day) (Su), Solo Tactics (Ex), Teamwork Feat (change 1/day), Track +2, Weapon Guard +1: Sword, Bastard (Ex)
Combat Gear +1 Flaming Burst Sword, Bastard, +1 Breastplate, Longbow, Comp. (Str +4), Arrows (20); Other Gear Holy symbol, gold, Sihedron Medallion
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TRACKED RESOURCES
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Arrows - 0/20
Daylight (1/day) (Sp) - 0/1
Judgement (2/day) (Su) - 0/2
Lamashtu's Mark (1/day) - 0/1
Teamwork Feat (change 1/day) - 0/1
Vision of Madness (4/day) (Sp) - 0/4
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Damage Resistance, Acid (5) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Acid attacks.
Damage Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Cold attacks.
Damage Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Daylight (1/day) (Sp) Daylight once per day.
Detect Alignment (At will) (Sp) Detect chaos, evil, good, or law at will.
Improved Sunder You Sunder at +4 and don't cause an attack of opportunity.
Inquisitor Domain: Madness Granted Powers: You embrace the madness that lurks deep in your heart, and can unleash it to drive your foes insane or to sacrifice certain abilities to hone others.
Judgement (2/day) (Su) Variable bonuses increase as the combat continues.
Judgement of Profane Destruction +2 (Su) Weapon Damage bonus.
Judgement of Profane Healing 2 (Su) Fast Healing
Judgement of Profane Justice +1 (Su) Attack bonus
Judgement of Profane Piercing +2 (Su) Concentration and vs. SR bonus
Judgement of Profane Protection +1 (Su) AC bonus
Judgement of Profane Purity +1 (Su) Save bonus
Judgement of Profane Resiliency 1: Magic (Su) DR/magic
Judgement of Profane Resistance 4: Fire (Su) Energy Resistances
Judgement of Profane Smiting (Magic) (Su) DR bypass
Lamashtu's Mark (1/day) 1/day: inflict 1d4 CHA penalty on an opponent you strike.
Monster Lore +1 (Ex) +1 to Knowledge checks when identifying the weaknessess of creatures.
Outflank Flanking bonus increases to +4 if the other flanker also has this feat, and ally gets an AoO if you score a critical hit against the target.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Solo Tactics (Ex) Count Teamwork feats as if your allies had the same ones.
Teamwork Feat (change 1/day) Swap your most recent Teamwork feat for another
Track +2 +2 to survival checks to track.
Vision of Madness (4/day) (Sp) With a melee touch attack, target gains +2 on attack rolls, saving throws, or skill checks and -2 on the others.
Weapon Guard +1: Sword, Bastard (Ex) +1 CMD vs. Disarm and Sunder or other effects targeting your chosen weapon.
Created With Hero Lab® - try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com!
The idea for extending the AP are interesting. With all the changes I would propose another route though; instead of fighting them, Karzoug reveals what's truly happening to the party and asks them to free him from his prison.
An interesting idea; I had wondered whether Karzoug would want to help the PCs but discarded the idea because I want at least one big bad guy who is irredeemable. But your concept of the heroes:
...meeting Celestials and Devils at the same time - maybe with a few dragons and other normally hostile creatures thrown in, all brought together by the threat of Mhar's return
is just about too good to pass up. I will have to ruminate on it some more. The other trap to having Karzoug as a potential ally is the letdown at the end of Spires of Xin-Shalast of fighting through the city and all its inhabitants only to get to the end and find someone who says "hey guys, nice of you to make it, can you free me pretty please? I promise I'll be good." I can guarantee that at least two of my players will riot if they don't get to roll their dice by that point. ; )
Having said that, I am going to need something to award the heroes the roughly two million experience points they will need to get to level 20, and Karzoug directing them to retrieve the trappings of the ancient empire certainly fits the bill.
On another topic, I may also need to move either Xin-Shalast or Mhar Massif so they are separated.
Probably the only concept you've introduced that I'm not a big fan of is that Mhar is responsible for the original corruption of the seven virtues of rule. I feel that absolves the original Thassilonians of much of the responsibility for their demise and erodes the pathos of the situation.
In my mind, Mhar is a primordial entity without the guile or appreciation of humanity's foibles to do anything quite so insidious and clever. I don't know what James and Greg had in mind when they inserted Mhar into the storyline, but the version I plan to run with is very much the embodiment of Chaos--pure anarchy and destruction set to rain down upon Golarion if it is ever freed. Its birth into the Material Plane--presuming it didn't just destroy the entire plane in a heartbeat--would induce among other things a warpwave that affected the entire planet. I don't plan to tie Mhar to the Proteans (that would make the concept of Mhar too approachable, which is a bit ironic) but the Proteans would certainly support Mhar's release.
The one issue I see with the story is the gods. They, and likely most devils, would want to stop Mhar; so some kind of assistance from there should be included; and a reason for why there's not more help.
An excellent point. Perhaps all the Chaos is weakening Rovagug's prison and the gods are all rather busy trying to keep him contained? Again, I'll have to think about it some more.
Thank you very much for sparking off some new ideas, I really appreciate it!
--Mike
GodsDMit...not fond of the round two gunlsinger?
Yeah, I had a lot of issues with Ironbriar as he was presented. Thought there was a lot of potential for more, so I basically changed everything and went all out with him...
Nothing says that there can't be a final great boss fight. ... Add a few more giants to X3 and the Champion would be a massive challenge.
I have to confess to not having studied Spires of Xin-Shalast or Sins of the Saviors terribly closely. I'm sure there's a solution there, I will just need to find it--and this is the best solution I can see so far.
Well, I only mentioned the idea, because it'd be an easy way to redeem Karzoug; as I intended him to be one of the parties main allies some characters with strict codes of conduct (like paladins) would otherwise have trouble working with him.
I doubt any of my players would have a problem with that. The most recent paladin we've had is a ruffian who stole his weapons and armor (his first level was Swashbuckler). He is slowly working his way toward the true faith and has recently been accepted into the Order of the Star. In the games we play, if Karzoug holds the only means to prevent Mhar's awakening, our paladins will cheerfully ally with him even if he's the most reprehensibly evil person they've met. After all:
Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil.
Unlike many of the people talking about the later instalments of Carrion Crown, my players would have no trouble being Lawful Good and allying with werewolves or vampires or whatever, so long as they were serving a greater purpose in doing so. What happens to the vampires and werewolves after the alliance has ended is another matter.
As for Thassilon; how where they responsible for their demise? It was the Aboleth that destroyed them; and they were merely collateral damage of the destruction of Azlant.
There are plenty of implications in the canon that suggest the aboleth were really responsible as you describe, but I prefer one of the explanations in Burnt Offerings:
Thassilon and Beyond: In time, the law and charity of the early empire gave way to corruption, cronyism, and the summoning of aberrations from beyond the planes. These included the shining children, the scarlet walkers, the inverted giants, and the Oliphaunt of Jandelay, a creature so powerful and yet so difficult to control that it was summoned only once to destroy an invading army—and even so, dismissing it afterwards destroyed a quarter of the Peacock Legion. This theory holds that the madness of these unknowable creatures warped all they touched, turning the rune magic of Thassilon into a mockery of its former glory. Without its magic, inherently corrupted Thassilon fell apart into squabbling fiefdoms, none potent enough to restore a central throne. Unfortunately, no one can prove a change in the quality of the empire’s magic, which is long since lost.
This is the one I'll be running with as the 'truth'. Thassilon probably fell apart before Earthfall, and only the physical destruction of the empire was caused by Earthfall.
As for Mhar; I haven't spend much time considering his nature; I don't really like the concept of creatures too powerful for gods to deal with. And I like it even less if mortals then manage to do it. So neither Mhar nor Rovagug feature in my campaigns.
Horses for courses--I'm not really a big fan of interventionist gods in general. My fantasy gods stay out of the realm of mortals and contend with things mortals just don't or can't understand. In my campaign, Cayden Cailean may well be the only exception--because he has no idea what he's doing most of the time. ; )
As for Mhar, most of my interpretation of its nature is coming from this post by James:
Mhar is an ancient, primeval, destructive entity from beyond Leng. If you're familiar with Lovecraft's writings, Mhar would likely be classified as a Great Old One. It's an immense alien monstrosity the size of a mountain. Releasing it would be bad because it's not meant to exist in the Material Plane—you could almost interpret its original incursion into the world and the resulting transformation into a mountain as a reaction the Material Plane had to it in a similar way to how a clam responds to a piece of grit in its shell by making that grit into a pearl.
If the Leng Device is operational when Karzoug emerges, Mhar is freed and unleashed upon the world. This is a pretty catastrophic and world-altering event, especially for the northern nations and regions of Golarion, and not the type of calamitous event we're that interested in supporting with much in the way of official stats and rules, since it changes the nature of what we're doing in Golarion too extensively.
IF, on the other hand, you're up for it—a campaign to banish Mhar back to the far side of the multiverse could be pretty cool for a group of high level PCs. Allying with the (also recently freed) Karzoug could be a pretty cool subplot in this case, since he probably understands what Mhar is and has some ideas on how to banish it better than most.
Mhar itself is a new creation of Greg Vaughan's and my work on "Spires of Xin-Shalast," in any event—there's no established lore about it in fiction or myth about it (although the word Mhar is, I believe, the word "mountain" in a European language... the exact one of which I can't remember, alas). GMs interested in taking a stab at its stats should check out the Call of Cthulhu d20 book that WotC published a while back for inspiration—Mhar itself is probably at least in the CR 30 range. The closest analogue from the Great Old Ones statted up in CoC d20 is probably Tsathoggua, but changed to be a Colossal monster. Tough enough that even epic characters would need to go on several adventures to discover its weaknesses or find a way to banish it without having to directly attack it.
Hmm... thinking a little bit more... you could probably do a pretty good Mhar by applying the non-epic pseudonatural template to a primal earth elemental, I suppose... although that still feels a little light on the flavor...
Based on that, I don't want Mhar to wake up. If it does, I will pretty much end the campaign with "and the world ends, nice job--you wait several millennia for reincarnation in Golarion 2.0".
But my players will be well aware of that (I certainly won't blindside them with Mhar or the threat it poses) and will be working towards preventing Mhar from ever being awakened.
On a vague power scale, if you're familiar with the way Slaanesh was born in the Warhammer 40,000 universe (the accumulated emotions of the entire decadent and hedonistic Eldar race coalesced in the Warp to form a sentient entity), Slaanesh's first breath drew in the souls of uncounted billions of Eldar, slaying them and their gods instantly and destroying their empire in a heartbeat.
That's the level of threat I intend Mhar to pose in my campaign. I don't even want to get my players thinking that they can challenge Mhar directly (or even indirectly after it has awakened)--I want them to realise that everyone and everything they know is ultimately powerless against such a horrific creature and the only solution is to stop it from even manifesting fully into the Material Plane, and then hoping that the next generation can find a more permanent solution.
At the moment my best idea is to have a clock start running from the time when Karzoug is freed/defeated--if the heroes can't solve all the problems before the clock runs out then say bye bye to Golarion because Mhar just got its wake up call.
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But, like I said, all of this is still just swirling in my head and I may go a significantly different direction in the end. Perhaps I will have Mhar being more knowable and the last chunk of the campaign will revolve around banishing it rather than preventing its awakening. Perhaps Mhar will not feature at all and I'll abandon my ideas and run the AP more as written. I'm not sure yet, and part of my creative process is usually coming up with a whole stack of ideas and discarding the ones that turn out later not to mesh with everything else I've come up with. And being challenged with other ideas and concepts is part of that. You have convinced me that the party should be able to ally with Karzoug if that's their choice--until having this conversation I wasn't even going to put that on the table. So thanks!
Plus, you're probably right about making plans for beyond 20th level. Thanks for pointing that out, I appreciate it.
--Mike
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GodsDMit...not fond of the round two gunlsinger?
Yeah, I had a lot of issues with Ironbriar as he was presented. Thought there was a lot of potential for more, so I basically changed everything and went all out with him...
Round 2 Gunslinger is much better than Round 1 definitely, but Im still not really a fan. Im not a 'no guns in my fantasy' person per se, but since I already forbid the players from using the class, even if I use it for the baddies, I definitely dont want to deal with whatever the players might do with a gun after killing the bad guy. I know they arent proficient with it, but itll just complicate matters. Besides that, Im kinda fond of the war razor and the pic in general.
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One of the pieces of the puzzle I have been struggling with as I continue to develop my take on Rise of the Runelords is Brodert Quink. A quick search of this messageboard revealed I wasn’t the only one who had wondered just how much Brodert should know, and how forthcoming he should be with his information.
Having spent the last couple of days playing around with the concept of him as a discredited academic, I eventually went down a slightly different route and rebuilt him from the ground up. So for what it’s worth, here’s my take on Brodert Quink.
Male human (Chelaxian) commoner 1/expert 1/adept 5
Init -2; Senses Perception +10
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DEFENSE
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AC 8, touch 8, flat-footed 8
. (-2 Dex)
hp 21* (1d8+6d6-5)
Fort +0, Ref -1, Will +7
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OFFENSE
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Spd 30 ft.
Adept Spells Known (CL 5, 0 melee touch, 0 ranged touch):
. 2 (1/day) extended comprehend languages
. 1 (3/day) comprehend languages, extended detect magic, extended read magic
. 0 (3/day) read magic, detect magic, guidance
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STATISTICS
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Str 6, Dex 7, Con 9, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 10
Base Atk +2; CMB +0; CMD 8
Feats Diviner's Delving, Extend Spell, Scholar (Knowledge (history), Knowledge (nobility)), Skill Focus (Knowledge: history), Spell Focus (divination)
Skills Appraise +17, Climb +2, Craft (books) +11, Knowledge (arcana) +14, Knowledge (engineering) +11, Knowledge (forbidden lore) +12, Knowledge (history) +19, Knowledge (nobility) +13, Knowledge (religion) +11, Linguistics +8, Perception +10, Profession (sailor) +7, Ride +3, Sense Motive +3, Spellcraft +13, Swim +2, Use Magic Device +6
Languages Common, Elven, Infernal, Ancient Osiriani, Skald, Thassilonian
SQ +3 to Appraise checks, Deliver touch spells through familiar (Su), Empathic link with familiar (Su), share spells with familiar, speak with familiar (Ex)
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Given I intend to inject moar Lovecraft into the storyline, the consequences of that knowledge may well be dire indeed, for Brodert, for the PCs, and for Varisia in general.
So who is Brodert Quink?
The Peacock Spirit: Worship in Ancient Thassilon was a truly rare tome and while he was repairing it, Brodert managed to read almost every page. While the volume Brodert read had been translated from the original Ancient Osiriani to Taldane somewhere around the 22nd century, the first edition had been published in -2642 A.R. by an Ancient Osiriani sage named Amahté. His imagination afire, Brodert set about researching Amahté, and was delighted to discover that the sage had written several other volumes on Thassilon, but that copies of them were rare within Osirion, but exceedingly rare elsewhere.
His mind made up, Brodert absconded from Westcrown and took on a job as a deckhand on a merchant vessel bound for Sothis (he would have been in his mid-twenties by then). In Sothis, he learned Ancient Osiriani while supporting himself with whatever odd jobs he could find—nothing was too demeaning when he kept his ultimate goal in mind. Eventually he worked his way up until he became one of many document translators employed by the court of Khemet II. In this position he used his access to the libraries of Sothis to research Amahté, and over a decade or so he tracked down several volumes on Thassilon, from the mundane From Birth to Death: Life-Stage Customs of Ancient Thassilon to the unsettling The Influence of Rovagug in Ancient Thassilon.
Then, in 4683 A.R., Brodert came upon the tome that changed his life—and his mind, quite literally. Amahté’s magnum opus, Summoning Rituals of Ancient Thassilon, covered various summoning rituals routinely employed in the ancient empire, and the information in it twisted and warped Brodert’s mind, forcing him in game terms to take a level in Adept.
Brodert left Sothis immediately and came to Varisia in search of ancient Thassilonian sites, with the full intention of enacting a summoning ritual as described in Amahté’s notes. He found a few sites, but none of them were what he needed. Then he heard about Sandpoint’s Old Light.
While most folks think the Old Light was once a lighthouse, Brodert knows the truth—that it was in fact a warmachine of ancient Bakrakhan, a Hellstorm Flume. Whilst he is outspoken in his theory, he uses it as a cover for his real suspicion that there is something left of the control mechanisms for the tower buried beneath the town—possibly offering him more insight into how these ancient Thassilonian relics are meant to work.
Unfortunately for Brodert, his abrasive personality and Chelaxian supremacist views have not endeared him to the locals, and so consequently where a kinder approach might have found a willing ear to listen to his stories and perhaps someone to tell him of the legend of the smuggling tunnels beneath the town, Brodert finds only silence and glares. Forced to do his own fieldwork despite his advanced age, Brodert hasn’t made it very far and is beginning to get frustrated.
As for Brodert’s plot arc…
Subsequent to that, Brodert could go in one of three directions.
First, if the players indicate they’d like the kind of campaign where everyone is happy and cheerful and every plot point has the potential for happy resolution, Brodert may be able to be brought back from the brink of his insanity. Perhaps after succeeding in summoning something horrific that will twist his mind even further (e.g. a Hound of Tindalos or a Shining Child). On this path, Brodert repents and tries to live his remaining days in service to the PCs.
Second, if we’re looking at a slightly darker version of the campaign, Brodert could become an antagonist to the PCs, throwing in his lot with a rival PC group and causing all sorts of trouble as he tries to prevent the PCs from stopping Karzoug’s resurrection.
Third, if we’re talking really dark, Brodert could easily become a lieutenant in Karzoug’s forces—perhaps he is present during an interrogation when the stone giants attack Sandpoint, hears about Mokumurian, and goes off to join the stone giant army. A wave of GM Fiat later and Brodert can become a formidable spellcaster—perhaps the summoner or Dark Tapestry oracle I was talking about earlier.
So that’s my take on Brodert, theoretically an ally of the PCs, but potentially so much more. You may note that although I am disallowing metamagic feats for PCs, Brodert has Extend Magic. This is deliberate, and when a PC notices that his castings of read magic and comprehend languages last much longer than they should, smart players will begin to wonder how Brodert has access to this kind of magic—Thassilonian magic—and what he's done to acquire it.
<insert evil laughter here>
When I run Rise of the Runelords I intend to 'borrow' an idea from Liane Merciel's campaign, namely the incapacitation of any NPC of consequence.
I plan on doing this because at the beginning of Burnt Offerings, Sandpoint is frankly full of people who are much higher level than the PCs, many of whom have the temperament to be adventurers or are explicitly or implicitly noted as former adventurers. I'm quite sure that my players will try to draft Ilsoari, Vorvashali, Abstalar, Belor et al. as active supporters of their cause. Doing so will make the players cranky because I'll either have committed what my gaming group seems to believe is the cardinal sin of GMing (have friendly and accessible NPCs who are more powerful than the PCs), or make up excuses as to why the NPCs refuse to get involved. Which pretty much sends me into my gaming group's second cardinal sin of GMing: powerful but wishy-washy NPCs who refuse to stand up for truth, justice and the Varisian way. (I know, damned if I do, damned if I don't. My players are only human.)
It's easy to send someone away from Sandpoint (e.g. Belor's mission to Magnimar). It's easy to have someone go missing (e.g. Shalelu in Liane Merciel's campaign). But if I do that too much, I'm positive my players will think there's some sort of conspiracy afoot and go searching for something like Chopper's ghost. Which might be a fun sidequest, but would be a diversion from the real plot and, in the end, a not-great use of time at the very early stages of the AP.
So I've been contemplating three options:
- Give several of the powerful NPCs persistent injuries during the initial raid (e.g. sprained ankles, concussions). Problems: can't find any rules for it that I like, and surely healing magic would fix them up quick-smart.
- Reduce the effectiveness of healing magic on NPCs, e.g. cure spells are only half as effective on NPCs as they are on PCs, restoration doesn't work at all etc.. Rationale: the PCs have a special 'destiny' that connects them more strongly to the universal forces of life of the universe. Problem: what happens when a PC wants to cast a cure spell on an NPC to save their life? Perhaps that connection to universal energies conversely allows PCs to cast cure spells on NPCs at full effect.
- Add a squad of Licktoad goblins into the raid that have poisoned blow darts or similar, who have orders to target a specific list of NPCs with their poisoned weapons. The effects of failed saves against the poison will incapacitate the NPCs. Problem: Fr. Zantus can cast restoration on the affected NPCs, and the poisons I could logically expect the Licktoads to have access do don't deal much ability damage--everyone affected should be all right within a few days at most.
Having had those thoughts, I figured perhaps a combination would work best, but then it occurred to me that if my players were going to presume the incapacitation of such a lengthy list of NPCs was the result of some conspiracy...why not make it so?
Enter Titus Scarnetti, the Scarzni, and some goblin commandos.
Something I'll get into later are my plans for the Thistletop tribe, but loosely I have created four basic types of Thistletop NPC: standard goblin warriors (warrior 1), warchanters (savage skald 2), cavalry (mounted fury 2; these replace the 'commandos' from the AP), and commandos (ranger 2, not mounted). I intend to have Tsuto approach Titus Scarnetti (perhaps through a yet-to-be-identified intermediary) with a proposition--supply him with some poison and he will send a squad or two of commandos after (a) the targets he wants to incapacitate in advance of the second major raid he has planned (e.g. Belor, Abstalar, Vorvashali et al.), and (b) the targets Scarnetti wants out of the way (e.g. Jasper, Hayliss, Cydrak).
With Scarnetti's wealth, the poison used can be powerful enough to properly incapacitate the NPCs for long enough to keep them out of the picture by the time the Catacombs of Wrath come around, and then when it comes to Thistletop the PCs will by and large be of higher level than the NPCs, and the looming threat of goblin invasion from the other tribes (taking out the goblins and their leaders at Thistletop is just taking the head off the snake) will provide a realistic rationale for keeping those more powerful NPCs at home anyway.
So that's my plan at the moment. We'll see how well it holds up over the coming months!
Earlier in this post I intimated that I was throwing some aspects of world design open to my players. Since one of us ran a bit of an experiment and ran 4-5 months of open world design for his homebrew to which we all contributed, many of us have thought that getting player input is a good thing, me included.
So I offered my players two choices. I told them they could choose a general philosophical outlook for their party, and that they could then choose a separate philosophical outlook for the world in which the campaign took place.
The options I gave them for their party philosophy were:
- Paragons: gravitate towards LG actions.
- Rebels: gravitate towards CG actions.
- Objectivists: gravitate towards N actions.
Then I offered them a chance to choose the general alignment of the world, selecting from the same three options presented above, plus Lawful Evil.
They chose Rebels/Objectivists for the party, and Lawful Evil for the world.
So I'm now in the midst of developing an alternate Golarion where Korvosa is much more strongly aligned to Cheliax (they threw their lot in with House Thrune during the civil war), Magnimar is being regularly threatened with Chelish naval blockades, and in general Varisia is a much less pleasant place than is depicted in the existing material. Think Korvosa under the worst of Queen Ileosa's reign.
This is quite a challenge, and has had some impacts I didn't necessarily expect, especially in Sandpoint. Father Zantus has gone from a kind and well-meaning person who is a bit lacking in self-confidence to a broken man, constantly questioned by the Inquisitors of Asmodeus (who wander the countryside with impunity) about the messages he spreads in his sermons. After he gave in and started preaching a more LN/LE line, many of his congregation deserted him.
Alliver Podiker has gone from an almost comedic rotund baddie to an information broker, in deep with the Sczarni and providing Titus Scarnetti with a lot of blackmail material.
Belor Hemlock has gone from a well-meaning but somewhat 'free-spirited' sheriff to an alcoholic with a secret.
Kendra Deverin is more under siege than ever as both the Valdemars and old Lonjiku are under the thumb of the Scarnettis. (With Lonjiku's death, things will likely change though; I don't see Ameiko bowing to Titus' will.)
Naffer Vosk has gone from being a more-or-less anonymous plot device to running an underground railroad for escaped slaves--with the help of Gorvi, who is an escaped slave himself, and whose belligerent exterior conceals an awful lot.
Jesk Berinni was a political dissident in Magnimar who barely escaped with his life. He has been the subject of some kind of spell or surgery or some such that permanently changed his appearance. Not sure what yet--polymorph any object perhaps? I'm not as familiar with spells as I should be.
Anyway, just thought I'd share. I'm finding this whole process fascinating. : )
--Mike