Bouncing Baleful Polymorph
Dispel Magic Greater
Wall of StoneI was considering calling it the "staff of obvious things for druids to have in staves" but it really doesn't pop. I could use some creative input on the name.
Staff of the Druid.
Then there's the "greater staff of more powerful obvious things for druids to have in staves:"
Bouncing Baleful Polymorph
Dispel Magic Greater
Wall of Stone
Heal
Empowered Firestorm
Reverse Gravity
EarthquakeI mean I guess technically you could make the "Staff of Nature's Wrath" and just throw anything in the Druid list into it, since the Druid list is so narrow anyway.
Staff of Judgement.
The magic item creation guidelines (note I did not use the word "rules" there) work fine, because they have a guardian. Your GM.
Are you saying that making a magic staff falls into the creating entirely new magic items section?
What other items with express formula (not on the 'guidelines' table) does this apply to?
It was my impression from the book that staves were completely allowable, much like weapons and armor were. The building blocks and rules were laid out to put in the hands of the players rather than guidelines for a DM to design and price new magic items.
Where was I wrong in that?
Are you saying that making a magic staff falls into the creating entirely new magic items section?
What other items with express formula (not on the 'guidelines' table) does this apply to?
Yes
Every other thing that has a formula listed that isn't a printed item.
So a 2nd caster level wand of cure light wounds for example?
A +1 flaming longsword?
A +2 light fortification breast plate?
A 3rd caster level scroll of cure light wounds?
All of these are priced by 'guidelines'? Or are the RAW clear on these pricings and DM approval isn't needed?
Again I'm not talking about a DM altering things for their world, but rather the default. A DM can certainly change these prices and for that matter even printed items could fall into that.
I see the above items as having a vast difference from a completely new magic item for which there is a table of listed guidelines rather than tables of listed formulaic prices.
-James
Great minds think alike, Maissen.
I'm with Abraham Spalding on this one. By the time you've used this staff 50 times to start 'getting ahead', you are probably at a level where that's perfectly ok.
The material component of a spell doesn't get reduced in price for using more charges in any reading of the rules of which I'm aware.
Even moreso with wish. At the level where you have over a million gp to provide for it, a wish every 10 days and 1 less 9th level spell a day is going to seem like a handicap and waste of cash rather than boon.
Right here Kain
"The creator must have prepared the spells to be stored (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any focus the spells require as well as material component costs sufficient to activate the spell 50 times (divide this amount by the number of charges one use of the spell expends)."
Like I said, I'd ignore that bolded portion though.
Aye, while it'll take a person 50 days to break even. Some people can cheat that much more effectively. A staff of full blown wish is 197k if I did my math right (25k*50/10+400*9*20). A level 20 arcane sorcerer with bare minimum CHA to cast it can get 7 uses from it per day thanks to their capstone.
Aye, while it'll take a person 50 days to break even. Some people can cheat that much more effectively. A staff of full blown wish is 197k if I did my math right (25k*50/10+400*9*20). A level 20 arcane sorcerer with bare minimum CHA to cast it can get 7 uses from it per day thanks to their capstone.
You did your math wrong. Full blown staff of wish
9th level spell - 400*9*17 = 61,200
Material Component for Wish x50 = 1,250,000
____________________________________________
Total 1,311,200gp.
Now for a staff of wish that drain 10 charges per use of the spell, the cost is
9th level spell - 400*9*17/10 = 6,120
Material Component for Wish x10 = 125,000
____________________________________________
Total 131,120
Assuming a 32 Charisma a 20th level sorcerer could use the first staff 116 times a day if he expended all of his spell slots to power it. The same sorcerer could use the second staff 11 times a day.
Said sorcerer has 349 spell levels to feed into powering staffs, and does so at a 3/1 ratio.
Aye, while it'll take a person 50 days to break even. Some people can cheat that much more effectively. A staff of full blown wish is 197k if I did my math right (25k*50/10+400*9*20). A level 20 arcane sorcerer with bare minimum CHA to cast it can get 7 uses from it per day thanks to their capstone.You did your math wrong. Full blown staff of wish
9th level spell - 400*9*17 = 61,200
Material Component for Wish x50 = 1,250,000
____________________________________________
Total 1,311,200gp.Now for a staff of wish that drain 10 charges per use of the spell, the cost is
9th level spell - 400*9*17/10 = 6,120
Material Component for Wish x10 = 125,000
____________________________________________
Total 131,120Assuming a 32 Charisma a 20th level sorcerer could use the first staff 116 times a day if he expended all of his spell slots to power it. The same sorcerer could use the second staff 11 times a day.
Said sorcerer has 349 spell levels to feed into powering staffs, and does so at a 3/1 ratio.
I don't think that sorcerers can make wish at CL 17. But I did error because I only divided the material component by 10. Though my usage count assumed min charisma to cast (19). If we're looking at a more optimized CHA, that'd be 36 CHA (18 base + 2 race + 5 wishes + 5 stat boost + 6 item) for a +13 boost giving 375 levels for 12 uses. Probably with 12 wishes a day he'll wise up and just wish for a more efficient staff to eventually reach 125 wishes per day.
Not Secure Shelter?
Secure Shelter's not in another dimension and is thus less secure.
Staff of the Druid.
:)
As long as I can meet the "theme" prereq by confining myself to my spell list, I think I'll be alright.
I don't think that sorcerers can make wish at CL 17. But I did error because I only divided the material component by 10. Though my usage count assumed min charisma to cast (19). If we're looking at a more optimized CHA, that'd be 36 CHA (18 base + 2 race + 5 wishes + 5 stat boost + 6 item) for a +13 boost giving 375 levels for 12 uses. Probably with 12 wishes a day he'll wise up and just wish for a more efficient staff to eventually reach 125 wishes per day.
Nothing in your original post specified that it was a sorcerer made staff, and even if it was the minimum caster level is then 18, not 20.
Regarding Charisma, while 36 is the most optimized number, I tend to think 32 is probably a bit more reasonable for most games, since not all characters have access to an 18 starting stat and 5 points of stat boost (especially if they are investing approximately 15% of their wealth in a staff)
I don't think that sorcerers can make wish at CL 17. But I did error because I only divided the material component by 10. Though my usage count assumed min charisma to cast (19). If we're looking at a more optimized CHA, that'd be 36 CHA (18 base + 2 race + 5 wishes + 5 stat boost + 6 item) for a +13 boost giving 375 levels for 12 uses. Probably with 12 wishes a day he'll wise up and just wish for a more efficient staff to eventually reach 125 wishes per day.
Nothing in your original post specified that it was a sorcerer made staff, and even if it was the minimum caster level is then 18, not 20.
Regarding Charisma, while 36 is the most optimized number, I tend to think 32 is probably a bit more reasonable for most games, since not all characters have access to an 18 starting stat and 5 points of stat boost (especially if they are investing approximately 15% of their wealth in a staff)
I think it is perfectly reasonable for a guy who has several wishes a day to have spent 5 on his casting stat.
Aye, while it'll take a person 50 days to break even. Some people can cheat that much more effectively. A staff of full blown wish is 197k if I did my math right (25k*50/10+400*9*20). A level 20 arcane sorcerer with bare minimum CHA to cast it can get 7 uses from it per day thanks to their capstone.You did your math wrong. Full blown staff of wish
9th level spell - 400*9*17 = 61,200
Material Component for Wish x50 = 1,250,000
____________________________________________
Total 1,311,200gp.Now for a staff of wish that drain 10 charges per use of the spell, the cost is
9th level spell - 400*9*17/10 = 6,120
Material Component for Wish x10 = 125,000
____________________________________________
Total 131,120Assuming a 32 Charisma a 20th level sorcerer could use the first staff 116 times a day if he expended all of his spell slots to power it. The same sorcerer could use the second staff 11 times a day.
Said sorcerer has 349 spell levels to feed into powering staffs, and does so at a 3/1 ratio.
If ever there was a reason to tap into your Kingmaker kingdom's BP reserves, this would be it. You may sink an entire kingdom (years in the building) into complete ruin, but you can rebuild it again easily enough with your new found ability to alter reality more or less at will.
Once you have the funds, the only thing left is time and the all-too-easy Spellcraft checks.
I think it is perfectly reasonable for a guy who has several wishes a day to have spent 5 on his casting stat.
In fact, it'd be hard to justify *not* spending 5 in all your stats after you get the Staff of Wishes made. That'd clearly be your first 30 wishes right there, and it'd save you half the cost of the staff in tomes.
But to do so you'd need to ensure you're costing yourself no more than 2 charges to throw the Wish, because otherwise you can't stack 5 wishes up for a +5 inherrent bonus. The most cost effective way to build the staff, presuming we're pinning our ears back and going for ultimate cheese, would be this:
Some 9th level spell, 10 charges per use. (100% cost multiplier)
Some 9th level spell, 10 charges per use. (75% cost multiplier)
Wish, 2 charges per use (50% cost multiplier)
Aye, while it'll take a person 50 days to break even. Some people can cheat that much more effectively. A staff of full blown wish is 197k if I did my math right (25k*50/10+400*9*20). A level 20 arcane sorcerer with bare minimum CHA to cast it can get 7 uses from it per day thanks to their capstone.You did your math wrong. Full blown staff of wish
9th level spell - 400*9*17 = 61,200
Material Component for Wish x50 = 1,250,000
____________________________________________
Total 1,311,200gp.Now for a staff of wish that drain 10 charges per use of the spell, the cost is
9th level spell - 400*9*17/10 = 6,120
Material Component for Wish x10 = 125,000
____________________________________________
Total 131,120Assuming a 32 Charisma a 20th level sorcerer could use the first staff 116 times a day if he expended all of his spell slots to power it. The same sorcerer could use the second staff 11 times a day.
Said sorcerer has 349 spell levels to feed into powering staffs, and does so at a 3/1 ratio.
If ever there was a reason to tap into your Kingmaker kingdom's BP reserves, this would be it. You may sink an entire kingdom (years in the building) into complete ruin, but you can rebuild it again easily enough with your new found ability to alter reality more or less at will.
Once you have the funds, the only thing left is time and the all-too-easy Spellcraft checks.
Well the big catcher is being level 20 (or level 16 with Robe of the Archmage). Although I remember reading somewhere that Kingmaker is intended to reach level ~17, so this could very realistically happen.
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You know, I have no problem with players attempting this sort of cheese, since the moment you craft anything that blue-chip valuable, things like this happen:
FISHERMAN: May Sarenrae preserve me! I had thought this old urn would have oil inside, not a wicked efreet!
EFREET: An efreet who has had centuries to think upon his wickedness and repent. I swore that if I was released today, I would grant my benefactor a wish, and so that is what I shall do.
FISHERMAN: Then I wish for infinite wishes!
EFREET: Ah, worthy one, today is your lucky day as well! I formerly would have said that this is not possible, or done something snarky like turn you into another efreet trapped in an urn under the sea, but in the intervening centuries, a clever wizard solved this arcane dilemma and crafted a staff of infinite wishes! Well, perhaps not quite infinite, but if you just expend ninth level spell slots, you can recharge it. And look! Here is that very staff which I liberated while the wizard was in the bathroom! I have also changed the command word to "Behold the power of cheese!" which you should find easy to remember.
FISHERMAN: But what if the wizard comes after me?
EFREET: He might, but stories like this never turn out well for the wizard. Just caution your wife that if any peddlers come by crying, "New staves for old!" to ignore them since they're just wizards in disguise trying to get your staff.
That's what happens when people make items that grant infinite wishes. At least when I run the game.
Put this in the hands of a level 20 arcane sorceror. Now your GM hates you.My crazy mind is hard at work yet again. Please confirm or deny the validity of my latest cheese:
Craft a staff of limited wish (inclusion of other spells is optional).
Done.
You can now cast limited wish once per day without paying the 1500gp material component. If you don't have the 93,200gp it would take to craft such a staff, increase the charge cost in order to lower the creation cost (so a staff that lets you get a free limited wish every 5 days would only cost 18,640gp). Furthermore, you can add a second equal or higher level spell that uses all ten charges to reduce the overall cost of the staff.
LOGIC: Like with wands and other spell trigger items, you don't need to pay for the material component, because it was already paid for during the staff's creation. This is all fine and well for things like wands, but with rechargeable staves, you can keep them going forever (albeit, only once per day--less often if you're a cheap bastard).
I have a player in my campaign that has both Limited Wish and Wish on his Arcane bonded item. Yea, it is a bit of a pain, but we have a agreement on what is acceptable use. The party level is in the low 20s, so I have no problem letting the Sor. hand out +5 Inherent bonus'. One of our agreements is that he may only hand out his level in bonus,(4 +5 at 20th, or 20 +1, or any combination). I believe he has his staff set up so it takes 2 charges per Wish. I also ruled that if his character died (which has happened once), his staff would be destroyed, so he had to use a normal Wish to get it back. All said it hasn't been as big a pain as one might think, but you really need to have the GM and player on the same sheet as to what is going to be tolerated.
I'm with Abraham Spalding on this one. By the time you've used this staff 50 times to start 'getting ahead', you are probably at a level where that's perfectly ok.
The material component of a spell doesn't get reduced in price for using more charges in any reading of the rules of which I'm aware.
Even moreso with wish. At the level where you have over a million gp to provide for it, a wish every 10 days and 1 less 9th level spell a day is going to seem like a handicap and waste of cash rather than boon.
Right here Kain
"The creator must have prepared the spells to be stored (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any focus the spells require as well as material component costs sufficient to activate the spell 50 times (divide this amount by the number of charges one use of the spell expends)."
Like I said, I'd ignore that bolded portion though.
I see it does say it twice, specifically referring to material components. So allowing you to gain the benefit after casting the spell 5 times. Once per two weeks. Sacking your 7th level (or 9th level) spell slot each day.
Eh. DM discretion is the best thing here then. I don't go for 'big wand' staves anyways, but to each their own. It still probably ends up more of a waste of money for an item you can use 3/month.
Assuming a 32 Charisma a 20th level sorcerer could use the first staff 116 times a day if he expended all of his spell slots to power it. The same sorcerer could use the second staff 11 times a day.Said sorcerer has 349 spell levels to feed into powering staffs, and does so at a 3/1 ratio.
The sorcerer could use the first staff 10 times per day.
He could use the second staff 1 time per day.
"A staff cannot gain more than one charge per day and a caster cannot imbue more than one staff per day."
Per the staff magic item rules.
"A staff cannot gain more than one charge per day and a caster cannot imbue more than one staff per day."
Per the staff magic item rules.
True, however the 20th level arcane bloodline sorcerer can expend spell slots instead of spell charges at a 3-1 rate. Which gets around that, and is what we were examining as the far end of what is possible with such a staff.
Assuming a 32 Charisma a 20th level sorcerer could use the first staff 116 times a day if he expended all of his spell slots to power it. The same sorcerer could use the second staff 11 times a day.Said sorcerer has 349 spell levels to feed into powering staffs, and does so at a 3/1 ratio.
The sorcerer could use the first staff 10 times per day.
He could use the second staff 1 time per day.
"A staff cannot gain more than one charge per day and a caster cannot imbue more than one staff per day."
Per the staff magic item rules.
Which has no bearing on the sorcerer's arcane apotheosis class ability whatsoever.
You would never have to refill the staff's charges even once per day since you never use them. As such your limitation never even comes into play.
Seems to be an echo in here. Didn't that 20th level sorc ability bit just get said?
As for blowing through 30 spell levels a pop for a wish at 20th level, with a single sorcerer bloodline...eh. Might work for some, might be worthless for others. He can already do this with existing staffs. It just looks like a bigger deal because of the larger material component. If the DM is allowing cheese like 10 charge single spell staffs, the game is likely a different one than standard assumption already, and such a 20th level character no doubt fits in perfectly.
Still don't see it as an issue.