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Last night, we had a combat with a Green Slaad which was changed into human form. The Slaad had his back to a wall, and a PC was in front of it. The Slaad changed back into its normal form, size Huge. There was 10 feet of empty space to the side, and more beyond the PC, but none directly in front.
PC
SL....PC
-------(wall)
What happens?
Is the Huge creature squeezed?
Is the PC pushed back?
Do they both end up in the same square?
Are they both squeezed?
Help would be appreciated.
Prawn
I'd apply the rule for accidentally ending a move in an illegal space, and bump the Slaad to the 10' to the side, treating it as though he took a 5' step while growing (so couldn't then move around or take another 5' step after getting big that round)
Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space: Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it's not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there's a legal position that's closer.
When that's impossible, like if they're both in a pit or something, I make them both squeezed.
PC
SL....PC
-------(wall)What happens?
The space indicated in an entry are not the actualy dimensions of a creature. You can fit several humans on a 5ft square, if they stand still. So there should be space left for PCs and Slaad :)
Usually you get to make a strength check when you grow to burst restrictions that are too tight. You could say that here all involved characters make strength checks. When the Slaad wins, he pushes the PCs back.
When the PCs win they can choose to either move back (perhaps even getting an attack of opportunity?) or automatically enter a grapple with the slaad (I understand grappling as fighting much closer together than normally).
But the Slaad is huge, and he only had 10 feet of space to the side, so the slaad and the PC are competeing for the same square of space. What happens?
Is the Slaad creature squeezed?
Is the PC pushed back?
Do they both end up in the same square?
Are they both squeezed?
Ah, gotcha, then I'd make the Slaad squeezed into the 10 space, or if you want the Slaad to have elbow room and push the fighter back as he grows, it's a bull rush combat maneuver.
Developer
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This is tricky. Technically they're all squeezing, though I'm also a fan of the push back option. My friend the book is not terribly helpful.
Ending Your Movement: You can’t end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.
Of course this really isn't ending a movement.
Squeezing: In some cases, you may have to squeeze into or through an area that isn’t as wide as the space you take up. You can squeeze through or into a space that is at least half as wide as your normal space. Each move into or through a narrow space counts as if it were 2 squares, and while squeezed in a narrow space, you take a –4 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty to AC.
When a Large creature (which normally takes up 4 squares) squeezes into a space that’s 1 square wide, the creature’s miniature figure occupies 2 squares, centered on the line between the 2 squares. For a bigger creature, center the creature likewise in the area it squeezes into.
A creature can squeeze past a creature while moving but it can’t end its movement in an occupied square.
Movement, movement, movement! Maybe if I wasn't looking in the movement section...
Of course this is the only section I know of that references squeezing.So onward with the RAW!
Accidentally Ending Movement in an Illegal Space: Sometimes a character ends its movement while moving through a space where it’s not allowed to stop. When that happens, put your miniature in the last legal position you occupied, or the closest legal position, if there’s a legal position that’s closer.
You move the PCs back until they no longer are squeezing. The enlarging creature suffers AoOs for "entering" their squares. That's how I'd resolve it.
Thanks! That makes a lot of sense.
Prawn
Yep! I gotta go with Alorha on this one. The Slaad can't occupy the same space as the creatures because he's squeezing, so they get shoved back. Because it was his action that did it, give them AoOs.
If it's a gelatinous cube, or something else that totally fills it's space with it's body, yea maybe, but Karuth is right:
Generally, a thing's space is what it needs to move around freely, not the space it actually takes up. When things don't have enough space to move freely, they're squeesed, they don't force everything else out.
In the Slaad's case it's not like he has a force field that forces the fighter away. 10' is room enough for the Slaad occupy, he just doesn't have enough space to move freely - he's squeesed. Someone can stand too close to you, getting in your way, that's what the fighter would be doing if the Slaad got big and the fighter doesn't move. To push the fighter the Slaad should actually have to push him, which is a bull rush combat manuver.
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I like Alorha's answer too - but I think I would treat it as a Bullrush and apply AoO - if the creature failed, I would move it to the closest legal space, saying it failed to displace the PC.
Of course, while I think I understand what you mean about it growing into a space that isn't big enough for both of them, I would try something... dynamic - such as give the PC a free chance to climb on top of the creature as it grows or something cinematic looking. I don't think I would want to penalize the PC in this case, unless they really deserved it... :P