Has anyone had any experience with playing PF without weapon proficiencies? The idea being everyone is proficient with everything. The reasoning behind this is that I have players who love to use random items as weaponry (Crowbars, Wrenches, other peoples' weapons, etc.). They're very role-play over roll-play, so I don't think they'll abuse the option. Just wondering if other people had experience.
I was truly inspired by a 3.5 Private Sanctuary podcast where Ryan talked about an old character he had in 2nd edition that strapped giant wasp stingers to his wrists and used them as natural weapons.
That's so cool! I want that kind of stuff to be available in my games. And the only way I see doing that easily is by either overhauling or just dropping the proficiency rules.
-The Beast
It ruins immersion for me for everyone to be proficient with everything since it would take years of dedicated training to do so, but I don't think it is broken. If you think it works for your group I would say do it.
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If you have Martial Weapon Proficiency, it’s really unreasonable for it to be that hard to learn how to use a new weapon, whether it’s exotic or not. If you spend a week training with a weapon, you can make an Int check (DC 10) to simply gain the Exploit of Exotic Weapon Proficiency. And no, you can’t take 10 on that.
Personally, I like the weapon groups provided in Unearthed Arcana as a replacement for standard weapon proficiencies. It allows a fighter to start of knowing how to use every sword in the game, even exotic ones, but not much else. It is good for representing different traditions.
I likewise think the UA Weapon Group system is nice...
It means some characters may not be proficient in the same weapons they would be under standard rules, but they will be proficient in other ones they otherwise wouldn`t be... All characers end up being proficient in a broad range of weapons (the more weapons in your game, the more weapons tend to be in each group) but which are all believably similar in usage to each other. It`s also interesting because it rather overlaps conceptually with PRPG Fighter Weapon Training, although they don`t line up 100% (though it doesn`t really matter in-play, since if you are a Fighter you have full Martial proficiencies). I even extended the UA system by making up a group of `Dwarven Racial Martial Weapons` including Waraxe and the other weapons Dwarves count as Martial if they have Martial Proficiency (all axes/hammers, slashing and bludgeoning types, so pretty similar in usage even if they are in different UA groups by default). Dwarves also get specific weapon proficiencies no matter what... The group is basically a powered-up extension of those.
For the OP`s issue, it sounds like you don`t even need to think about ditching proficiency completely / granting all weapon proficiencies wholesale to everybody... Just grant IMPROVISED WEAPON PROFICIENCY, i.e. Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything, to everybody as free Feats. Any weapon can always be used as an Improvised Weapon, it just may not have the same damage or Crit stats. That`s what real proficiency is for. Or if you don`t want to hand out free Feats left and right... If you`re using the UA Weapon Group system, `improvised weapons` could well count as part of a weapon group they are similar to, so you would be proficient in specific Improvised Weapons.
While I see no harm in giving everyone profiency in improvised weapons since they are inferior to real weapons after all, I wouldn't allow it on real weapons, see, there's no reason for you to take a falchion or longsword when you can just equip an elven curveblade or the bastard sword. While it wouldn't be unblanacing for clerics (who get to wear a martial weapon anyhow by their deity), it would be a strong advantage for a low level druid (before he can shift that is)
If your players are dedicated RPs and loathe PG, ok, will work as every rule relaxation does on dedicated RPs
One thing I thought about doing was allowing them to use the stats for one weapon and describe it as another. For example, the look of a scythe, but the stats of a longsword (1d5, 19-20/X2, martial weapon). The only thing they would change statistically is the damage type (doesn't really make sense for a mace with the stats of a long sword to be a slashing weapon).
IF your players like using random things as weapons, they can always take the Catch Off Guard feat, for not only removal of the nonproficient penalty, but also a bonus against unarmed opponents.
It ruins immersion for me for everyone to be proficient with everything since it would take years of dedicated training to do so, but I don't think it is broken. If you think it works for your group I would say do it.
I don't look at weapon proficiency as being proficient but good enough to get by with any weapon in that group. You really become proficient with particular weapon when you pick weapon focus. That's just how I view it to make sense so it doesn't ruin the immersion.
I don't have anything to add, other than you sound like a fun DM.
As a player I like that my character can do the things he does better than other members of the party. As a GM I take that and try to give my players the ability to get good at stuff without watering down the specialness of it. I had a girl who decided she loved using a frying pan as her main weapon. We made feats and fighting styles that enhanced her abilities with that frying pan. She gave up other options in favor of her frying pan. And ended up kicking but with it. If I had just decided that anyone could use a frying pan like a mace it would have been less cool for her.
I think some where there is a feat like “Improvised Weapon Proficiency” that may do what you want. I like that most wizards won’t be running around with great swords strapped to their back… but that once in a while one will.
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I had a girl who decided she loved using a frying pan as her main weapon. We made feats and fighting styles that enhanced her abilities with that frying pan. She gave up other options in favor of her frying pan. And ended up kicking but with it. If I had just decided that anyone could use a frying pan like a mace it would have been less cool for her.
Wasn't Tika, from the Dragonlance adventures, proficient with a pan?
From being cook in Caramon's tavern?Or did I hallucinate that?
I run S&W, and houserule that all classes can use all weapons. Haven't had any problems. As characters level, Fighters are still the best with whatever weapon they pick up. A 5th level Fighter will still be better with a sword (never mind the better AC and HP) than a wizard with a sword, so really no imbalance here, imo. I would think there would be even less imbalance with PF, due to the frequency of and wide array of feats, etc, available to the Fighting classes.
Why penalize creative playing with a non-proficiency modifier? Life's (and all to many campaigns are) too short :)