I told them that ghost touch weapons would be a great idea, but they don't have the moolah (8k!) for that.
Quite expensive, yes. Ghost Salts on missile weapons are a much cheaper option, particularly with an Alchemist, or someone else with more than a little Craft (Alchemy), in the party.
Trial of the Beast looks like it will be a particularly fun and juicy adventure for my party’s Alchemist. Not only is he well-suited to figure out pieces of the puzzle such as the darkvision extract, all the alchemical items at the chymical works will be extra valuable to him: he’s bought a Hybridization Funnel to make super splash weapons and uses his Grenadier archetype power to infuse them into his bombs. Then there’s the formula books he’ll encounter, and the various plot hooks at Schloss Caromac.
Incidentally, if the players don’t totally loot Schloss Caromac, I plan to make up the WBL difference with potions and elixirs gifted to them by the grateful Count; powerful, useful potions like Burrow, Fly, Gaseous Form, and Oils of Resist Energy (Communal) and Protection from Arrows (Communal). Using them wisely could make all the difference in the next adventure.
Okay, selling all of their magic weapons, and not immediately replacing them, after fighting stuff like the Lopper and the Splatterman (and they sold the werewolf bane dagger? They'll be kicking themselves for that in book 3!) is an amazingly boneheaded act.
I made the Beast a little more helpful, and he gave the party a heads up before they went to Hergstag, since they asked him about it. Of course, the Beast has no knowledge skills, so he doesn't know what the hell anything actually is.
I think his parting words to them about Hergstag was along the lines of "Couldn't save her. Couldn't save anyone. Nothing I could do. Can't punch a ghost."
My party's cleric stocked up on scrolls like crazy, so the party went to Hergstag with stuff like consecrate and death ward scrolls. I don't remember if anyone took any con drain.
Though I also had the consecrate work better than expected when they fought Brother Swarm at the abandoned Desnan church, and the Desnan cleric dropped a consecrate in it.
The ring of invisibility is not meant to be had by the players. I'd recommend making it less a ring and more a magical ability of the creature.
wait, i think they might have kept the enchanted dagger, and didn't count it as party treasure to be sold and divvied up.
anyway, the cleric already has an enchanted weapon, which leaves the rogue and the paladin to get theirs. The wizard can just zorch the wraiths with magic missile.
where the heck are ghost salts found?! I have the ultimate equipment book and there was never anything like that in there!
wait, i think they might have kept the enchanted dagger, and didn't count it as party treasure to be sold and divvied up.
anyway, the cleric already has an enchanted weapon, which leaves the rogue and the paladin to get theirs. The wizard can just zorch the wraiths with magic missile.
where the heck are ghost salts found?! I have the ultimate equipment book and there was never anything like that in there!
Ghost Salts are a Weapon Blanch from the Pathfinder Society Field Guide.
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Hey Everybody,
I was hoping that the community could help me out again with ANOTHER conundrum I'm having with the events of Trial of the Beast. Currently I'm running two groups through the campaign and one of them is in the Schloss Caromarc and the other has managed to stumble into Vorkstag and Grine's extremely early.
The short version of the story is that the group got jumped by Vorkstag and Grine at the Chymickal Works and through a madcap (INSANE) series of events managed to escape being killed and make it back out into the courtyard from the vats. They managed to call for the guards and now the entire building is surrounded by the city guard. The problem is that they have done absolutely no damage to Vorkstag and Grine themselves. I'm running low on handaxes and acid bombs and the two villains think are fairly certain that if they stay they are going to get themselves dead (most likely) or arrested.
Vorkstag and Grine have disappeared into the factory and I'm faced with two options:
1.) Have Vorkstag and Grine go down in a final fight with the party who are also almost depleted in resources and then allow them to investigate the chymickal factory as usual. The group gets full experience points and V & G are gone forever.
2.) V&G escape through the sewers while the getting is good and return later in Broken Moon as recurring villains (thanks to whoever suggested that in my previous problem with V&G). The group gets half experience points (if you read the story below you might think they deserve full but I'm only giving half I think). I might be able to reason them throwing the furnaces into overload and blowing up the chemical vats to slow down the players on the way out, but stopping to pick up their things with the group hot on their heels is unlikely.
So, what do you guys think?
[Extremely long story follows but I think it's worth it.]
One after the other the Inquisitor makes very good diplomacy / gather information rolls and very low hourly rolls to find out where the tools came from. By six thirty in the morning they discover that the tools were bought by Vorkstag and Grine, and without going to fetch the others they go to investigate.
When Grine appears at the loft to ask them why they are ringing his bell at six in the morning the Inquisitor lays out exactly why they are there and demands that they be able to see Vorkstag. Due to the fact that I lost two characters in my other group to V&G I gave them a chance to see Grine's attempt to hide his glee of being able to lure them into a trap (G has a pretty bad bluff bonus) and they are immediately suspicious of him.
Grine shows them in and the inquisitor immediately starts threatening and trying to intimidate Grine. They don't want to go inside and meet Vorkstag they want him outside, “NOW!”
Grine, thoroughly intimidated, chooses to make a run for it and despite a quick grease spell they aren't able to stop him from fleeing into the vats.
The wizard immediately dimension doors (conjuration specialist) out of the wooden gate and casts mount to go fetch the rest of the group. A task that I VERY generously put at 20 rds round trip.
Vorkstag and Grine release the flesh golem hound and three mongrelmen into the yard to attack the fighter and inquisitor. Due to some lucky rolls the mongrelmen drop the fighter to a 1/3 hp in one round. The hound tears a significant chunk out of the inquisitor. Despite some card use both of them are eventually knocked into negatives by the hound who they together are able to do 3 damage to.
Not wanting to kill more characters with this same encounter and situation Vorkstag uses bloodblock on the two bodies and plans to thoroughly torture/skin them for information. He throws them into the lower levels and sets the mongrelmen to guard them while he and Grine plan for any further incursions.
About 12 rounds later the cleric, barbarian and wizard arrive back at the Chymickal factory. After using a knock spell they rush in to fight the flesh golem hound. The barbarian and cleric start trading blows with the hound and are slowly whittling it down. The wizard casts grease, knocking the hound into a prone position that helps a lot before he even enacts his plan the barbarian is knocked into negatives and then healed back up by the cleric.
True genius steps in. The wizard has two spells left. He steps inside the vats where, Vorkstag and Grine are hiding, and immediately casts invisibility on himself. Choosing to go downstairs rather than up in search of his hurt comrades he sneaks across the vat room floor, occasionally succumbing to fumes and slowing down.
Meanwhile upstairs the Hound and the adventurers are bashing each other for hit after hit. The barbarian gets knocked into negatives again. The cleric heals him. The barbarian gets hit so hard he is at -14 (one round from death), uses three cards to negate the damage that otherwise would have killed him, and is back up. The hound hits the cleric and knocks him into negatives. The barbarian gets another hit on the hound and knocks him down to 1HP. The barbarian is knocked into negatives again.
Downstairs the wizard peers into the room where the mongrelmen are keeping an eye on the bodies and going through the gear and uses the wand of ghost sound to distract them into the vat room. Rushing inside he rummages through the Inquisitor and Fighter's gear and starts pouring cure moderate wounds potions down their throats. A wand of cure moderate wounds is broken out.
Upstairs the cleric and barbarian barely manage to stabilize as the hound wanders over and lays down, waiting for more invaders. Inside the now healed adventurers start rushing across the vat room to potential escape. The mongrelmen intercept them and the fighter quickly cleaves two of them while Vorkstag and Grine toss bombs and axes at them to stop them from escaping.
At the doorway to finally exit the inquisitor is hit with a bomb and knocked into negatives once again. The fighter rushes out and instantly kills the severely damaged hound. Kicking the door closed potions and wands are thrown toward the cleric and barbarian raising them from unconsciousness again. Vorkstag and Grine emerge at the loft entrance and start lobbing things at them again. Seeing the guards arriving outside and succumbing to the Inquisitor's intimidate the two of them decide to make haste back into the Chymickal Works to make a plan of what to do next.
Well, it's the end of day two in the campaign, and I need to do some reading up on the mob attack.
Seriously, the guys are gaining XP left and right, but they don't have the gold income to match. It's really worrying me. They are nearly broke.
This Ghost Salts should have been in the UE book. It's too necessary to the game. Not everybody has that enchanted on their weapons, and halving all damage is more than a bit much. My players ended up doing almost all of their damage to the wraiths via turn checks and a little holy water.
Vorkstag and Grine have disappeared into the factory and I'm faced with two options:
1.) Have Vorkstag and Grine go down in a final fight...
2.) V&G escape through the sewers while the getting is good...
Instead of having V&G auto-escape or take on the city guard, I’d have them try to hide in the works until the coast is clear. Pick a hiding spot the guardsmen won’t notice, but give the players a fair chance to uncover them. Perhaps Grimes might pick a shadow to squeeze into, while Vorkstag slips on a new skin and tries to pass himself off as an innocent bystander or victim--or maybe a sergeant of the guard!
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Thanks for the suggestion. I'm going to use it. :)
Another quick question, my players long ago discovered through knowledge arcana rolls that flesh golems are affected by fire.
I'm somewhat concerned that they will cheese the aberrant promethean or worse yet find a reason to cheese the Beast himself.
When it comes to the last combat on Count Caromarc's tower would you guys say that lightning damage (causing healing for both of them) would effectively cancel out any fire damage (and the slow effect) they might do?
Note that the Promethean gets an extra move action, so the fire effect only reduces it down to normal activity.
So I haven't been able to get through the 400 posts but reading the advancement chart Im confused
"Advancement Track
Characters should be 4th level when they begin “Trial of
the Beast.” If they haven’t quite reached 4th level, consider
giving them a few more encounters in Ravengro itself, or
on the road before they meet the Crooked Kin. By the time
the PCs reach Schloss Caromarc, they should be 6th level,
and should reach 7th level before the end of the adventure.
“Trial of the Beast” uses the medium XP track."
So I just give levels when needed I dont do EXP
So where through the trial would you suggest I give them there 5th level 6th will be given after the trial
Im kind of thinking before they go to Vorkstag and Grine’s Chymic Works but what do you guys think?
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Joey: I’ve done a rough XP count for Trial of the Beast.
Assuming the PCs were earning the majority of the bonus XP for finding and presenting evidence, 4 4th level PCs would level up to 5th after the second day of the trial, before the riot and before going into V&G’s.
If they hit V&G’s before the second day of the trial but after visiting Hergstag, they would level up after V&G’s. If they Hit V&G’s before Hergstag, they would level up after Hergstag.
Thanks kinda what I was thinking before the riot and V&Gs
I'm running Trial of the Beast as a one-shot (and probably just the trial part).
Some interesting things have happened thus far (we're on the eve of Day #2 and the party is currently in Hergstag). This is probably going to be kinda long...
The party met the Crooked Kin and went into the forest to rescue Aleece. They met the Phase Spider and had a b*tch of a time. They did defeat it and to show proof that a Phase Spider killed Aleece they cut off the spider's head to show the Kin. So they went back to the Kin and one of them mentioned that the spider's head could be quite valuable in Lepidstadt.
They travel on to Lepidstadt with the Kin but a mile away or so, the party tells the Kin "Go on without us, we'll catch up" (they didn't want to be seen entering the city with a bunch of freaks...).
In Lepidstadt, they go to the University and drop off some books and meet Judge Daramid. The judge asks them to meet her later that night because she might have need for some assistance.
The PCs had a few hours to kill so they decided to "let's sell this head". So a couple of them split up and the cleric (who possessed the head) was offered 10,000gp by an alchemist shopowner. SOLD! Meanwhile, in another part of town, the rogue was offered 15,000gp by a retired wizard. Well, when the rogue learned of this, he was not happy... He (with the druid as his hapless accomplice) devised a plan to steal the head from the shopowner. I won't get into the details of his plan or what happened but it basically involved the druid shapechanging into a dog and the rogue setting up some sort of 'playdate' with the shopowner's dog... Eventually, the rogue stole the head but was caught exiting out of the shopowner's back window. The druid (who's shapeshift ran out as the guards were questioning the rogue and shopowner) and rogue eventually got hauled to jail...
End Session 1...
Session 2 picks up with Daramid pulling a favor and getting the druid and rogue released from jail. The party meets with Daramid and are now embroiled in the trial.
The next day, the party meets Kaple and the Beast. The Beast is uncooperative and Kaple suggests they meet with Elder Lazne in Morast before the trial starts tomorrow.
The PCs travel to Morast and try to talk to Lazne. Unfortunately, they completely botch their Diplomacy roll and he's now hostile and slams his curtain on them. The barbarian decides to force his way into his hovel and intimidate him. Only the paladin had an issue with this. The party got the info they needed and headed to the the abandoned boneyard. There they found all the clues they needed and travelled back to Lepidstadt.
End Session 2...
Session 3 starts the morning of the trial day #1. The PCs are super excited to present the evidence they found and show the beast is innocent. The prosecution presented his case. Enter Elder Lazne who now sported a neck brace, a black eye, and his arm in a sling. The collective WTF from my players was music to my ears :). Anyway, the rogue (who had the best diplomacy) presented everything for the defense and did an excellent job (I think he missed only one check). Unfortunately, the prosecution, on cross-examination, questioned the rogue:
"Did the party break into Lazne's house"
"No."
"The party didn't unlawfully enter his home and physically intimidate him?"
"No."
The prosecution then asked for all evidence (since it was gotten by ill-means and the credibility of the defense witness was suspect) to be thrown out and for a 1,000gp fine levied against the rogue for lying.
Needless to say, the rogue player pouted the rest of the session and never understood that Lazne was a vindictive d*ck.
The party then travelled to Hergstag where they fought one of the wraithspawn and Brother Swarm. At the end of the session, they were still there.
So that's where we're at currently...
So why did you have them fail this isnt modern law where you need to have proof of evidence so all the stuff from the Chemical Lab will be thrown out because they will be breaking in
The evidence was thrown out because they lied about how they obtained it. It brought into question the witness's credibility (i.e. if the witness could lie about breaking into Lazne's what's to say he's not lying to the court about any of this evidence they found).
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We just finished Book 2. It was a long time coming. This is kind of a long post, so I'll put it behind some boxes.
Originally, our GM changed some of the phases of the Trial. The riot happened after the Beast was found innocent, and we had to defend ourselves in the courtroom. All of us were taking care not to kill anyone, except the ring leaders. Our resident warrior decided she was under no such obligation, and just started slaughtering people. To be fair, though, she only killed those who went after her first.
After the riot was over, she was captured by the guards and put in prison. The Beast was set free (unwillingly by the people), but before he ran off he asked us to meet him at the Schloss. We had planned a midnight jail break out for our warrior woman, but we ended up just bribing a judge and some guard with a lot of money and she was set free.
From there, we were given two days to clear up Lepidstadt and never return. We were banished for not only defending the Beast, but also "slaughtering" the innocent people during the riot. Two of our characters (who were siblings) were from Lepidstadt originally, and their parents (who owned a manor in town) were also banished. From there, the party went up to Schloss Caromarc and promptly died.
The two characters who survived decided they were going to return the bodies of their friends back home. Since two of them were siblings, they had to return to Lepidstadt to determine what happened to their parents. They were caught and thrown in jail for breaking their banishment. This was my handwaving to explain why the old characters would be with the new ones. Judge Daramid hired the new characters to find out what happened to the Beast, and she sent an “expert” with them who knew where the Beast was (read: the fighter character). The Judge originally sided with her hired investigators (the old character) and was trying to find a way to get the two out of jail. She managed to pull some legal maneuvers to get one temporarily free using the other as collateral. Basically, the warrior had a chance to prove that she was actually working to help the town, and if she succeeded, she and her wizard friend would be free; if she failed (or ran away), the wizard would remain in jail for the rest of his life.
The Judge ordered her and hired the new members to investigate the Schloss. Daramid is old friends with Caromarc (although she hasn’t seen him in some time). When she found out that the Beast may be related to Caromarc, she was concerned, and wanted to make sure he was ok. As Caromarc is a Count in the region, she was able to use him as the fighter’s proof that she was defending the town. If she found Caromarc (alive would be best), she would be free.
Before they left town, they were approached by a mysterious and seemingly wealthy stranger who wanted to make a deal with them. He knew they were investigating the Beast, and if they killed the Beast, he would give them the deed to a local Manor. Yes, the very same Manor that the old character’s parents were just evicted from. When the players figured this out, they were delighted. :)
So off they went to the Schloss. One thing they kept noticing was the distinct lack of safety or hand rails on all the bridges. The paladin kept citing made up OSHA regulations for the pathfinder world.
I ran the adventure pretty much as written, until they got to the Lightning Tower. I made Waxwood find them before they encountered the Aberrant Promethean. I only communicated in charades using Waxwood (my players loved this), and Waxwood had to point out the notes behind the door and the fading chalk diagram on Floor 2. He also loaned them a Ring of Invisibility so one of them could sneak past the Aberrant Promethean and get to the Lightning Tower in order to call the Beast.
After nearly dying before the Beast showed up, they managed to defeat the Aberrant Promethean and rescue Caromarc (who was barely alive). Yay!
Some things I changed about the Schloss:
I added a bunch of magical scrolls, a few wands, and a couple of magic items for the characters to find. There is simply not enough there to help them make their way through the book. I determined the magic items based on what I thought Caromarc could own.
Add a secret room to the secret high store room:
- Wand of identify (28 charges) (for magic items Caromarc may discover on his outings)
- Wand of cure serious wounds (15 charges) (Sometimes Caromarc gets injured or what he’s trying to capture for his collection gets injured and he needs it alive)
- 3 scrolls of raise dead (he’s looking for a way to bring his wife back, no luck so far)
- Vest of Surgery (Helps with keeping his captured animals alive and with sewing up his constructs)
- Wand of speak with dead (8 charges) (he talks to his wife all the time; there’s another wand in the Lightning Tower, Floor 3)
- Scroll of break enchantment (Just in case)
- Scroll of lightning bolt x2 (Constructs heal from lightning bolts)
- Scroll of control plant (For those pesky molds he collected)
- Scroll of decompose corpse (easy way to strip a body of flesh to see the bones)
- Wand of diagnose disease (17 charges) (Sometimes, you need to quickly know what’s wrong, especially if that mummy gets contagious)
- Scroll of rapid repair (need to keep those constructs healthy!)
- Wand of gentle repose (4 charges) (preserves bodies he finds or needs to transport)
- Scroll of forbid action x2 (easy way to catch a prey)
- Scroll of hunters lore x3 (sometimes, you just can’t remember what that critter is)
- Scroll of qualm (for when he needed to calm his prey for easy transport or catching)
- Scroll of stone to flesh x2 (He needed these when he caught the basilisk)
- Scroll of remove curse (mummy rot is bad)
- Scroll of remove disease (mummy rot is bad)
This AP is also the first time I had the chance to use my new Bones minis.
- For the Blind Golem, I tied 6 winged familiar minis to the largest construct mini I owned using dental floss. Using some type of stiff twist-tie may have been better, as I could have pointed some of them up in the air to make it look like they were flying around him.
- I used the large ugly futuristic ape as the Aberrant Promethean, and the Frankenstein mini as the Beast.
- The Bones set comes with a sarcophagus with removable lid mini, which I used to represent where Caromarc was imprisoned on the 3rd floor. After the Beast defeated the Aberrant Promethean (at this point, the players stopped controlling the Beast and he was acting on his own), I had the mini run up to the next floor and I used the mini’s hand to rip open the lid off the sarcophagus. The players all cheered at being able to see the actual mini rip open the prison!
Since some of the characters were prone to steal things from the Schloss, I had Caromarc simply state, “Take what you wish from my home as a thank you for saving my life.”
Since most of the characters weren’t there for Harrowstone, I had Caromarc fill them in on the Whispering Way. He hired the party to investigate them, and provided some starting funds. One of the players then told Caromarc about the deal they made with killing the Beast. They offered up their Hat of Disguise to the Beast so he could stay hidden in the country-side without being spotted. They also asked Caromarc if he could make a Beast look-a-like from spare parts so they could take it back to the town as proof they killed the Beast.
They returned the fake dead “Beast” to the town, and were heralded as Hero’s of Lepidstadt. They were given the Manor, and the fighter and wizard were cleared of all charges. The Beast was tied to a post, paraded through town, and lit on fire at dusk – which also happened to be the same night as the Carnival in town (remember them?). All in all, the town was ecstatic and now loved the party.
They told Judge Daramid the truth, that the Beast was a creation of Caromarcs and the Count is safe and sound. The Beast, is also safe, hidden away at the Schloss and they gave the town a fake one. Daramid was impressed with their results and told them about the Order of the Palatine Eye. She also told them what she knows about the Whispering Way.
I didn’t like the way Carrion Crown moves. It plays out very quickly, and my players wanted the opportunity to craft some items. So I decided to spread the adventure out. Nearly a year passed after the Trial of the Beast before they received hints about the Whispering Way’s next location: Shudderwood and Ascanor Lodge. This year gave them the opportunity to craft some magic items and spend their well-earned cash. In addition, some of my players liked the kingdom building rules from Kingmaker (but they’re not too fond of the storyline), so we’re going to incorporate those rules into Carrion Crown and allow them to build up from their Manor to an eventual dukedom and maybe beyond. It’ll take place behind the scenes in a series of letters the players are going to write to the Prince of Ustalav. At least, it’ll stay that way until they find their way to Caliphas in Book 5, where they may actually have a chance to meet the Prince.
I have the oddest party. The highest Int stat is the Rogue, at 13. The lowest Cha stat the Fighter, at 13. My entire party is charisma based. Funny enough, the highest wisdom is the Paladin’s mount.
We have a Paladin of Iomedae, a bluff & diplomacy based Rogue, a sorcerer, a mysterious stranger gunslinger, and a fighter with the eldritch heritage feat chain. Literally, the entire party is charisma based. They have the hardest time with knowledge checks, so I have to give them the background from other means, because they rarely pass the few knowledge skills they have. Fights are fun, because they do all the rookie moves simply because they don’t have the knowledge to identify their enemies. They cringed when they had to fight the rust monsters, knowingly having the heavy armored characters charge in because they can’t use player knowledge to avoid them. Mwahaha!
Next up: Broken Moon!
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Okay, so my group encountered the Ghasts...
I have to say: Compared to all the other encounters, this one is very vague and thus ranges from "Pretty easy" to "Horribly difficult". For example: How difficult is it to get into the hole? Can you use the casks (Is this the right word?) like stairs or do you really need to climb down?
I ruled that you could go down there without too much of a problem, but I forgot about the difficult terrain - our ranger jumped in (because she does things like that), all Ghasts charged her and she pretty much got paralyzed on an instant. Even worse, when the paladin got down there two of them could make a Five-Foot-Step (because, again, I assumed that down there wouldn't be any rubble) and make a Full Attack...
They survived, but I had to "forget" the damage bonus to balance out my error with the terrain.
So really, REALLY think about how you want to let this fight play out, people! It might just kill your party - paralyzed + Coup De Grace is a b*!%&.
You can up it to DC 20 if you think it is too easy. But, all it does is put the party on guard (Draw weapons, maybe buff spells). Unless they are all cowards, they will probably still investigate and still get surprised by the phase spider phasing in and out of the material plane to attack (the cries won't tell them what it is).
In Caromarc's mansion, a lot of the items are given gp listings, as if the players are intended to loot the place. However, Caromarc ends up rewarding them for chasing after the Whispering Way and taking out an aberrant creation of his.
This makes no sense. Why would Caromarc reward the PC's after they LOOTED his home?! Did I miss something?
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In Caromarc's mansion, a lot of the items are given gp listings, as if the players are intended to loot the place. However, Caromarc ends up rewarding them for chasing after the Whispering Way and taking out an aberrant creation of his.
This makes no sense. Why would Caromarc reward the PC's after they LOOTED his home?! Did I miss something?
The values are listed in case you have unscrupulous player characters... Caromarc may not notice one or two items missing... maybe the Whispering Way took those items... or what if he is dead as far as the players know...
"You're welcome, Mr Caromarc, for rescuing you. If you'll excuse me for a moment, I need to use the latrine." Quickly runs off to put everything back.....
:)
In Caromarc's mansion, a lot of the items are given gp listings, as if the players are intended to loot the place. However, Caromarc ends up rewarding them for chasing after the Whispering Way and taking out an aberrant creation of his.
This makes no sense. Why would Caromarc reward the PC's after they LOOTED his home?! Did I miss something?
The values are listed in case you have unscrupulous player characters... Caromarc may not notice one or two items missing... maybe the Whispering Way took those items... or what if he is dead as far as the players know...
"You're welcome, Mr Caromarc, for rescuing you. If you'll excuse me for a moment, I need to use the latrine." Quickly runs off to put everything back.....
:)
Yeah, right there, see? Why would the author list all those gp values if you weren't supposed to loot the place? And, it makes no sense to loot the place since the party is there to stop a runaway monster for the owner of the mansion. Looting would be damned rude of the party, wouldn't it?
Without the loot, the players are facing a severe money shortage given their level. Any recommendations?
Also, it's idiotic to make a +1 humanoid bane (shapechanger) dagger that IS NOT silver/mithral! I'm changing it well before the PC's get to starting this adventure.
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The dagger overcomes DR/Silver because its enhancement bonus against shapechangers is +3.
Also: I just upped the rewards for the players. Introduced a few more magic items in the Schloss which the count allowed them to keep, since he can't make use of them anymore (a headband of alluring charisma +2 he used in an experiment to give another golem a personality, an old handy haversack he used for hiking...) and all that.
Of course it would be rude of the party to loot the place, but that's not the point. There ARE parties which are evil or at least not really good. They could be like "We want to save the beaste because it seems nice, but f*ck this guy and his home full of abominations against Pharasma!"
Our bard will steal anything if the thinks he can get away with it - if he finds something small and valuable it WILL vanish in his pockets.
Does anyone know the total wealth found in Caromarc? I ask because I am considering adding it all up, then adding it to the reward for saving the Count.
Of course, this assumes that the party doesn't loot the joint. Personally I think it a grave error on the author's part not to take into account that the party might actually be composed of heroes.
Piccolo, i would like you to put one post where you don't insult the author:) just one, just to see if you can do it:)
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If you have personal comments to make, do it privately. I am not amused, no matter how many smiley faces you add.
I think you have misunderstood me, but that's fine, I am not looking to be popular, just to answer questions about running the adventure. Normally I stick to the material as written, and am loathe to alter it.
In Caromarc's mansion, a lot of the items are given gp listings, as if the players are intended to loot the place. However, Caromarc ends up rewarding them for chasing after the Whispering Way and taking out an aberrant creation of his.
This makes no sense. Why would Caromarc reward the PC's after they LOOTED his home?! Did I miss something?
There is a list of the treasure values in each Carrion Crown adventure made by the inestimable Ice Titan. Search the Carrion Crown subforum for “treasure” and it should be your first result.
I’m curious to know, Piccolo, why you’re running Carrion Crown a second time; my impression is that you have many objections to the writing and editing. Are you setting it in Golarion this time? It doesn’t seem like a great match to the Forgotten Realms.
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actually I don't have all that many objections to the writing. I only have a handful, and have a nuanced opinion of the series so far. I am running it again because I bought the whole series, and want to get my money's worth. So far the largest error is the fact that the adventure expects one to loot Caromarc's mansion, and that is tied in with the fact that there's not much permanent magic items in the adventure, just charged items (plus I worry that there's not enough treasure as a whole in the adventure).
Thanks for the tip about this Ice Titan guy!
Been doing some checking. According to several analyses, the money in the first two adventure modules aren't lacking, BUT the gold is tied up in consumables. Therefore, I am going to have to get used to breaking down wands and such for pricing, as they are going to be sold. Tedious; involves far too much math for my taste.
Second, while it is ridiculous to assume the PC's will loot Caromarc's mansion, I'm going to have to do so anyway because of the lack of liquid assets in the adventure. Thus, I am going to have to figure out how Caromarc will react to being saved from the Whispering Way by a bunch of guys that just looted his home. I'm really glad no paladins are in the group! Too bad there's a LG cleric of Kelemvor (really hates undead). Any suggestions?
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Well...wait for them to loot it. If they loot it: Great, they got money and the Count cannot do anything against it because he does not want to go to the authorities ("Officers! These guys stole all my stuff while rescuing me from my own creations which I created from the dead!").
If they decide not to loot it: The Order of the Palatine Eye and the Count itself could just give them more money. Or, as I said, you could throw more magic items into the Schloss which the count lets them keep out of gratefulness.
My group hat to return the rod of Flame extinguishing because the count wanted to keep it as a safety precaution in his lab. He let them keep some things he used in old experiments and didn't need anymore, though.
So this might balance it out a bit.
Half my group wanted to loot, half my group threatened to walk out of the adventure. They didn't loot the castle. In thanks for being rescued, the Count gave them a prize equal to the value of the goods they could have looted.
The solution is easy to implement and the players won't even know they could have looted the place. Unless you give them price tags next to every item or they are the kind of 'adventurer' that robs a place blind.
As for the value? Pop open a calculator and add things up during a quick read-through.
Half my group wanted to loot, half my group threatened to walk out of the adventure. They didn't loot the castle. In thanks for being rescued, the Count gave them a prize equal to the value of the goods they could have looted.
Why did your group want to walk out of the adventure?
Because half the group was Good aligned and did not agree with looting the mansion of a guy who may not be dead or evil. The disagreement between "maybe the Whispering Way lied and the Count isn't a bad guy" and "no one is looking so lets load up the wagon and get rich!" overflowed into real life and almost destroyed the gaming group itself.
I had to step in and force the issue that the PCs were not actually looters, even the Neutral characters, and to make them not loot the place. Was better than ending the adventure right there.
Interesting. Usually I function as a tempter, asking my players if they want to do something shady, and seeing if they fall for it. Like telling a newbie to chuck a Fireball spell into a crowded area of PC's and NPC's....
That's probably why the players don't trust me when I make suggestions during the game, or when I make expressions of joy whilst rolling dice.
You did well in diffusing the potential catastrophe there, MP. I just wish the situation wasn't already present in the adventure, waiting to blow up in other DM's faces like it did yours.
Yeah, at the very least the Whispering Way is right in that the Count was doing some graverobbing, but that's a unlawful/criminal act, not an evil one. Caromarc should be punished by the authorities, but getting them to pursue a rich guy isn't easy, as I well know such individuals have influence. So, getting looted and having his guards/traps destroyed is the least that could happen to him. In a way it's a rough sort of justice.
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The rogue in my group's party waited until her group mates went to sleep and then snapped up every thing of potential worth. She does that a lot.
In book 5 there are a bunch of dominated mercenaries that my group decided not to kill and not to loot. Their fault was in leaving them unconscious where they had beaten them. After they left the rogue returned and stripped them to their skivvies.
Luckily the paladin has a terrible perception.
The only problem with that, Tybid, is that the other players will want their share of the treasure, and the Rogue is swiping stuff without their PC's knowledge. In my experience as DM, I've noted that whenever the Rogue swipes stuff, they'd better put the goods into the kitty or the players will be ticked off with the player of the Rogue.
Part of being a Good Guy means that sometimes you don't get the loot or reward, only a sense that the right thing has been done. If the shady rogue steals stuff and the Good Guys don't find out in game, there's nothing they can do. If you are having a problem with players separating Real Life from in game, then have shady guy pass you notes or otherwise keep it secret. But really you should just talk to your players about keeping the game from overflowing into RL. Or don't allow evil/neutral characters that will cause party conflict.
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The treasure that our rogue recovered ultimately worked it's way into the party coffers (usually in gold form)... eventually .
R: "I found this."
P: "Where did you find it?"
R: "Just stumbled across it. Thought it could help."
P: *suspicious eyes*
I don't generally condone it but if she wants to try and pull it off without the party's knowledge I'm not gonna stop her.
Most of them appreciate the rogue taking the moral quandary off their shoulders.
Part of being a Good Guy means that sometimes you don't get the loot or reward, only a sense that the right thing has been done. If the shady rogue steals stuff and the Good Guys don't find out in game, there's nothing they can do. If you are having a problem with players separating Real Life from in game, then have shady guy pass you notes or otherwise keep it secret. But really you should just talk to your players about keeping the game from overflowing into RL. Or don't allow evil/neutral characters that will cause party conflict.
Most of the time I don't allow evil characters, period. Neutral characters are warned that they should treat other PC's as if they were LG and NPC's as whatever they want. See, in my campaigns alignment is a reflection on how NPC's view the PC in question. It also affects alignment magic as well (Detect Good, Protection from Evil etc). Thus, if you want a Good alignment/reputation for your PC, *act* like it around NPC's.
As for players having trouble separating real life from the game, you must understand that some of that is inevitable. A Rogue might be able to get away with that once or twice without the other PC's finding out; but the players themselves will know, and eventually after many such thefts breeds resentment because the other PC's are being shafted out of their cut, in a nutshell.
So, in the long run it's better to have all goods placed in the kitty where everyone gets a cut (except cohorts, familiars etc).
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When I ran this I didnt even bother telling the PCs about paintings, fixtures, sarcophagus (really a sarcophagus?) gold values. They were too busy staying alive and trying to get to the bottom of what was going on at the Schloss. I had Alpon offer them a reward and a fund to go after the WW once they freed him.
I did have a thievy rogue in the party. I made sure to offer him some opportunities to swip some swag but after awhile he cuaght on that the stuff he was taking really wasnt worth much. The character had to decide if robbing was his priority or stopping the WW. He chose WW and eventually lost interest in stealing stuff which worked out best for the campaign.
Right now, I have a bunch of players in Haunting at Harrowstone, and they are nearing the end of the module.
The party is composed of
goblin Rogue (knife master)
aasimar Cleric (Heroism, Sun; very anti undead)
elf Fighter (great physicals, has a ghost touch greataxe)
elf Wizard invoker (very much into direct damage)
I will do my level best to ensure all of them have great saves, but convincing the Cleric and Fighter to take Great Fortitude may take some doing.
I was wondering if any of you have advice for the players; gp purchases & feats?
Do you have any advice for me as DM when running this module? I've partially run it before, but we got nowhere near the end when we quit.
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Player Advice
I would gp wise they should concentrate on their armor, weapons and individual stat enhancement items. Belts of giant str etc. The modules do a fairly good job of handing out bracers of armor, amulets of natural armor, rings of protection, and cloaks of resistance.
If you really want to help them out then tell your rogue about gloves of reconnaissance and everyone else about the buffering cap. There's a reason I never mention those to my players though.
Feat wise I would say... will saves are very pivotal in books four and five. Our rogue still grumbles at me about suggesting improved two weapon fighting when she had rather got iron will.
DM Advice
Try to endear your players to the Beast if you can so that they actually want to save him.
Rakshaka (I believe) did a variant version of Hergstag with Attic Whisperers that I thought was great. Actually he has done a post on every module on the path that I would recommend just for the ideas.
The Erinyes fight. Perhaps conveniently forget that if they get shot on the bridge they need to make an acrobatics check? Maybe do what some others have done and put limits on her summoned contract.
Players enter the museum? Outside the contract etc...
Someone else suggested if the players rest at the Schloss give them a moment in the night where they glimpse the aberrant Promethean fighting and killing a froghemath to give them some idea that a direct confrontation isn't wise.
I also took some boards advice and had it attack them inside the manor one night through the windows. Restricting it to one claw attack a round to give them an idea just how much damage the claws can do.
Finally, if you want to insert the Whispering Way into the Schloss to remind the players that they still exist some have added a Totenmaske (impersonating the Count) at the manor in the place of the animated monstrosity at the front door.
It's a roleplaying encounter (partially) I had a lot of fun both times I tried it.
That's a lot of stuff. Hope some of it might help.
That's some very general advice for the players. They already do that.
Gloves of Reconaissance? I looked them up, but am curious why you would suggest them.
Yeah, so far the only PC's who haven't taken Iron Will are the Wizard and the Cleric, and they are only 3rd level.
Erinyes fight? I don't recall that from the module after having read it.
What museum?
I have no idea what a Totenmaske is.
Erinyes fight? I don't recall that from the module after having read it.
What museum?
The museum is the 3rd building, before the PCs climb up the mountain to the menagerie. There's a trap left by the WW on the rope bridge between the lab and the museum that summons an Erinyes.