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Hi,
I've started running CC, and am having some trouble guiding the player to research the Five Prisoners. Both the Whispering Way and Harrowstone are referenced multiple times so that the player started asking about them, but I don't really see very many hooks for the Five Prisoners. As things stand, the most likely scenario to me looks like the player is going to remain in the dark until they find Vesorianna, and then she can just infodump instead of the player doing legwork to research.
Any suggestions how to drop hints about the Five Prisoners?
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You can use Rakshaka's series of escalating haunts for the 5 found here.
When the PCs tell any others about the haunts, they could be directed to Father Grimburrow, who suggests the PCs dig through journals of past priests. They could find entries where the priest at the time and Warden discussed their worst prisoners, specifically mentioning the 5.
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A bard in one of the taverns could sing a song about any of them, and the song ends with them getting sent to die in Harrowstone.
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The skipping girls event could be expanded to have a song for each prisoner. I dont think Vasorianna would know details of the 5 prisoners beyond their names and that they are evil/powerful, but she could suggest the party look for more information.
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Re-reading the intro last night, it seems all the 5 prisoners came in at the same time, so one song could cover all of them.
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The papers in the offices in Harrowstone could suggest Knowledge checks be made on the prisoners themselves, as well as the piles of personal affects in the room full of prisoner gear.
Consider putting multiple handaxes, books, and holy symbols in the personal effects so that the players have a reason for researching the five prisoners' *actual names* instead of their pseudonyms.
Kendra could suggest this through DM fiat, or father Grimburrow. A suggestion that 'knowing the Splatter Man's name could help somehow, since the man thought there is power in names.'
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The skipping girls event could be expanded to have a song for each prisoner. I don't think Vesorianna would know details of the 5 prisoners beyond their names and that they are evil/powerful, but she could suggest the party look for more information.
I skipped the girls (pun intended) and had a haunting melody of the song echo around the town, especially at the site where Gibs has tossed some blood to mark the letters of Vesorianna's name.
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Hi,
I've started running CC, and am having some trouble guiding the player to research the Five Prisoners. Both the Whispering Way and Harrowstone are referenced multiple times so that the player started asking about them, but I don't really see very many hooks for the Five Prisoners. As things stand, the most likely scenario to me looks like the player is going to remain in the dark until they find Vesorianna, and then she can just infodump instead of the player doing legwork to research.
Any suggestions how to drop hints about the Five Prisoners?
I am having the same problem. With aid another, guidance, the Harrowstone documents and Kendra's Knowledge (History) you get a +15 bonus to the roll, but the players do not know they can take 10! My fellow players failed the check, so I revealed to them that some documents were missing from the Harrowstone documents from the start (granted that they took every sheet of paper from the offices). These were manifestos for four specific months on the inmates admitted to the prison. (Note, four.) When they look for information in the City Hall, I will probably have them find out some info from the DC 25 automatically, otherwise the story won't go forward.
So, yes, my suggestion essentially does not help :S
I don't remember if it was in the book, but I allowed players to repeat checks in an area. They just didn't get through all the papers or maybe missed the important ones. Also if they are having Kendra do the checks, you can have her take 10.
Hello,
How often do I check for wandering monsters (and then roll on page 77's random chart)?
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Hello,
How often do I check for wandering monsters (and then roll on page 77's random chart)?
There's no official guide in the adventure, as you've no doubt noticed.
My advice would be to check once (20% chance) every time the party spends an inordinate amount of time in one area... taking 20 to search, for example.
If the party spends the night in Harrowstone, make 2 or 3 such checks - if the party sets watch shifts, time them agaisnt those (first watch, second watch, etc.)
That should give you a good starting point. ^_^
Thanks!
My party has no archer in it; they're all melee combatants or magical types. So, what the hairy heck do I do with all the enchanted arrows in the adventure? Should I replace them with usable weapons, or just let the PC's sell them?
I noted that there's a lot of incorporeal undead types in this adventure. Is there something like silversheen that would temporarily allow the PC melee combatant to strike incorporeal undead without the reduction in damage?
Replace them, maybe with some ghost touch weapons.
If you replace treasure for the first module, make sure its stuff that everyone can use who can't effect haunts. The haunts in the first module are really awesome, but you want the players to be able to affect them so they feel like they are playing interactively rather than being side-lined for choosing the wrong class. If every party member just waits for the cleric to channel, it limits their agency and makes haunts a little boring.
IIf every party member just waits for the cleric to channel, it limits their agency and makes haunts a little boring.
So far, I have in my party: Paladin, Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Rogue. So, what can I give the 4 PC's that affect Haunts? I already know the Cleric is going to be channeling away, and the other players can only use Haunt Siphons (how many should I have for each PC's possession?).
Never mind. I'm just going to assume Prof Lorrimore didn't take any of the Haunt Siphons from the case, and so the party gets 10 of them instead of 6.
Gonna recommend that the Paladin and Rogue eventually get Ghost Touch on their weapons, possibly in the next adventure.
Ghost touch does nothing against haunts.
Holy water or even smashing cure potions works fine though.
And keep in mind there's really only three incorporeal enemies - the poltergeist, the Lopper, and the Splatterman.
The cleric or the wizard could prep a magic weapon spell or two, to help the pally or the rogue.
Also, just because they are primarily a melee combatant doesn't mean that they can't use arrows or bolts. Arrows and bolts are nice cheap expendable resources to give the party. A ghost touch weapon is really expensive and durable.
Don't forget that anything that you give the party can be sold. Albeit for only 50%, but it can add up quickly. For example, a ghost touch weapon costs 8,000gp so it can be sold for 4,000gp which is the same as two +1 weapons. Whereas, 5 +1 Ghost Touch Arrows cost 800gp.
The PCs are not supposed to have all that much magic to start. At 4th level they are only expected to have a total of 6,000gp which includes all magic and coins.
Aren't there a lot of incorporeal undead in Trial of the Beast?
Brother Swarm and his spawn.
The party should have multiple magic weapons by that point, though.
But that's still only 50% damage. I will recommend that the party Paladin and Rogue consider further enchanting their weapons with a Ghost Touch in Lepidstadt, even if it means they end up owing me gold... They should be flush with moolah after Carrion Hill, the module that I intend to send them through as of 4-5th level. I'm also going to tell the Cleric that it might be a wise idea to grab Craft Magic Arms and Armor.
I forget. Are there more incorporeal enemies later on in the adventure path besides Trial of the Beast?
How long of a trip is it from the town of Ravengro to Harrowstone? I can't seem to find anything on the distance.
I was thinking of having random encounters in Harrowstone, so I can keep up the pressure when they try resting or thoroughly searching the cursed place.
Well, Harrowstone does have a random encounter table. I actually added a random encounter to almost every fight they got into. My party was a cleric, an alchemist, a sorcerer, a ranger, and a fighter.
After Trial of the Beast, There's like 1 incorporeal enemy encounter per book (that weird wolf spirit thing in book 3, the colour out of space in book 4, and the witchfires in book 5) until book 6, where there's a bunch of incorporeal undead at Renchurch.
Keep in mind your paladin can pimpslap undead fine with lay on hands if he has to.
Trip length - I want to say it's a two week trip? Trial of the Beast mentions the distance. It's been a few years since I ran it now, so I don't remember off the top of my head.
I ran a detour at that one crossing east of Ravengro involving the ghoul infestation. Man, I'm blanking on the names. It's been years now.
Sounds like it might be worthwhile to grab Ghost Touch on their weapons, like I had surmised.
To Lepidstadt, it's 100 miles. On horseback, it'd be determined by the chart on page 174 of the core rulebook. One would assume the trip wouldn't always be on roads, however. But that's not the distance I wanted to know. I wanted to know how far it is from Ravengro to Harrowstone prison.
I was thinking of having the Carrion Hill module on the way to Lepidstadt, by moving the city to western Ustalav. They'd be 4th level at the time, but well equipped for their level
(I figured I'd plant a low end magic item somewhere in Harrowstone for each of the players. The Paladin and Rogue are already good, since there's enchanted weapons. The Wizard shall get a Ring of Sustenance so he has an extra 6hrs a day to craft his magic items. As for the Sorcerer and Cleric, I figured I'd plant a Circlet of Charisma and another of Wisdom.)
and they'd have 5 party members, so I figure they could handle it. Because of the party consisting of 5 members instead of 4, they'll be hurting for treasure and xp before long, so the module should help compensate for this.
Part of the challenge to harrow stone is that a low level party is not well equipped for incorporeal creatures. It forces them to get creative with using holy water and magic weapons they aren't specialized for.
Think about playing Doom or your favorite horror game. Part of the setting is a shortage of effective resources. It adds to the story.
Part of the challenge to harrow stone is that a low level party is not well equipped for incorporeal creatures. It forces them to get creative with using holy water and magic weapons they aren't specialized for.
Think about playing Doom or your favorite horror game. Part of the setting is a shortage of effective resources. It adds to the story.
Uhm, the changes I made were to the Splatter Man's confiscated collection of Warden Hawkran's gear. So, the only way to get access to the Ghost Touch longsword is to defeat the Splatter Man. It's meant as an appropriate award for defeating the adventure.
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By adding ghost touch to their weapon they'll screw themselves over massively in every other department. Ghost touch isn't a flat "+x gp" amount, it raises the bonus by one. Meaning the next enchantment will be even more expensive. Spoiler for books 2 and 3 about the incorporeals:
One little group of encounters in book 2 and one encounter (two if they are murderhobos) in book 3
That does not justify a full ghost touch approach in my opinion. My group solved it by liberal use of magic weapons and cure X wounds spells. You don't have to be equipped to deal with everything perfectly, just to deal with it.
That's the thing. There are lots of incorporeals in the final book of the series, and scattered examples in the rest of the books. I figure the Paladin will likely keep, and possibly upgrade, the +1 mithral Ghost Touch longsword I planted in Warden Hawkren's confiscated possessions.
I'm of the opinion that being able to damage everything is better than raw power. Flexibility is important. So much so that I have recommended that the party Cleric take the feats from Undead Slayer's handbook, so that he can put a temporary Bane enchantment on the party's weapons. Then too, he can put a temporary Ghost Touch on the party weapons as well as a few other options.
Finally, I'm none too worried about the cost of the enchantments. The party Wizard evoker is bonkers for crafting magic items, so much so that he's going to take the Valet archetype for his familiar. And, I'm giving him a Ring of Sustenance so that he has time to craft while adventuring (it's a neat trick). He's already taking Craft Wondrous Item at 5th level, and will likely take Craft Magic Arms and Armor as well.
Tell you what, how about I compromise? Instead of Warden Hawkran's +1 keen longsword, I'll just make it a +2 mithral longsword. That way The Cleric can make himself useful with his Bless Equipment feat and add Ghost Touch to it temporarily.
Screw that, it only adds 2000gp to the base price and is only worth it until the Paladin enchants it to +3. So I'll make it a +2 adamantine longsword.
Cleric won't have Bless Equipment until 7th level; sure hope the PC's won't encounter many incorporeal types before that.
Just found out that the Sorcerer is quitting, as the player is moving away. Therefore, I don't have to adjust the adventures anymore.
What about players who decide to burn the books? I mean, one is the Unholy book of Zon-Kuthon and another is the Unholy book of Urgathoa. I really kinda always thought it was weird they didn't put something in there for "What if the players refuse to deliver the evil books?"
So, any suggestions on what should happen when the players show up in Lepidstat with two books missing and are like "Oh, those unholy books? Yeah, we threw them in the fireplace"
I ask because one of my players is an aasimar sorcereress who worships Shelyn (and I think she might also take variant multiclass cleric) and she has both Lore: Shelyn and Lore: Zon-Kuthon. So, I really think she's gonna go ballistic when she sees a copy of Umbral Leaves and chuck it in the fire.
Hey hate to 'bump' a thread, but anyone out there have any suggestions on what to do about PCs that want to burn the books?
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The books aren't going to cultists or evil people - they're going to the University of Lepidstadt (or, secretly, the Esoteric Order of the Palatine Eye), where they can be studied to better fight against those horrors.
Remind her that this is how people get the Knowledge or Lore to know what they're up against. ^_^
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If they do not deliver all of the books, then they will forfeit their 100pp each.
"... I have also willed to each of you a sum of one hundred platinum coins. For safekeeping, I have left these funds with Embreth Daramid, one of my most trusted friends in Lepidstadt—she has been instructed to issue this payment upon the safe delivery of the borrowed tomes..."
Also, the professor is known to the players so his having these types of books should not be a surprise to any of them even if they personally find it distasteful.
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If they burn the books, it isn't the end of the world. The purpose of the books is to get the party to go to Lepidstadt and into contact with Daramid. If any of the books aren't burned, then they still have a reason to go (although maybe won't get full payment, up to you). If they destroy the books, you'll have to come up with another reason for them to go to Lepidstadt. If the party has bonded with Kendra (which is encouraged) just have her move to Lepidstadt or have her need/want to go to the university for X reason (I believe her father taught there at one point, but I might have added that). Whatever the reason, she asks the party to escort her.
The books are meant to (weakly) connect Book 1 & 2. That thread could easily be replaced if needed.
Hmm, okay thanks. I don't know for sure that she will destroy the book, I just thought of that because she IS a devout Shelynite and I was in another game once where players had a... disagreement... on how evil the books were and whether they should actually deliver them or not.
Course, on the other hand there is what Kalindlara said, after all she DOES have both Lore: Shelyn and Lore: Zon-Kuthon, so she's probably read it before LOL
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My apologies for slightly derailing the current train of thoughts, but I'd like to add the generic note that I've just finished reading through the whole thread :-) I've gotten quite a lot of fun ideas from this thread, so thanks to any and all participants!
Both for my own and other's future reference, I'll surmise most of my ideas and planned changes below. I've got a separate thread for my own plans on foreshadowing the Big Bad, so I'll add those ideas over there. Anywho:
- Kendra will ask the PCs to aid with a few small problems to be expected when her father died; swatting away unwanted suitors, getting a few administrative details right, perhaps distributing some old knick-knacks to other villagers. I want to cement the idea that her father foresaw that she'd need help after his death and that those 30 days are useful to his daughter, even beyond the non-mundane troubles of Harrowstone and the WW.
- I'll add in side-quests from 3rd party sources as the pace needs and my budget allows, such as Legendary Games' Adventure Path plug-ins.
- I'll simplify the fire in the town hall; have it be a 'moving walls trap'.
- I'll start off the AP with a carriage ride as a ways of introducing the PCs to each other, the world and combat. Combat'll probably be against bandits or some such - mooks they can kill without repercussion. This'll help my new players get into the combat system. Undecided if I'll connect the mooks to the WW.
- Though I guess it should be considered logical, I oughta feel free to amp up the horror feel and spookiness; add extra visions/ghost sounds/etc.
- The Professor's journal will be on his body...and he'll deliver it to the PCs himself ;-)
That's about it, I think. Anything else I really should change/add?
I would like to ask a question...
How do you handle a PC death in this AP/book?
Like, if a PC dies (or wants to reroll his carachter) how should I introduce the new one?
If you've gone through the portal, your best bet is a member of the Heralds of Summer's Return (whose investigating on the Irrisen side, and has maybe picked out the Pale Tower as a possible target of opportunity).
The Heralds of Summer's Return are an anti-winter witch rebel faction that the party links up with in Book 2 anyways.
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I was wondering why I couldn't find this post on the RoW board. Oops.
The easiest thing is the person happening to pass through Ravengro (or is someone not named in Lorrimar's will but still coming by to pay respects) and getting a giant dose of WTF from one of the prisoner dreams (like the one one presented as an extra event, or a custom one), and realizing he or she just can't walk away from this.
(The player should also write up the sort of person who's willing to go into an extremely dangerous haunted prison =p)
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Ravengro has enough population to support new PCs. Alternatively, the Pathfinders or Palatine Council could have sent them to investigate Harrowstone.
I'd certainly go with what Samy said and just say not all the persons listed in the will showed up. It allows for you to add new PCs down the line that "missed the funeral". When the will is read just casually mention a few folks haven't shown up.