I think the "Riddle of Steel" is a movie thing. I've read the Conan stories more than a few times over and don't remember the phrase. Momoa probably rolled his eyes at it's mention because it was immortalized in the first movie and like Wert said, he's trying to seperate his take on the Conan movie from the original.
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I think the "Riddle of Steel" is a movie thing. I've read the Conan stories more than a few times over and don't remember the phrase. Momoa probably rolled his eyes at it's mention because it was immortalized in the first movie and like Wert said, he's trying to seperate his take on the Conan movie from the original.
Mark me as another that's happy they're shooting for something closer to the original character rather than staying in the shadow of the Arnold film.
I'm not going to get my hopes up too much. Looking at the previews it looks too much like Clash of the Titans (new version) meets Kull the Conqueror (Sorbo film). I am particularly worried by the line, "No man should live in chains." (or close to that) Conan was the classic Chaotic Neutral character. He didn't care if people were enslaved, he just cared if he was.
I'm not going to get my hopes up too much. Looking at the previews it looks too much like Clash of the Titans (new version) meets Kull the Conqueror (Sorbo film). I am particularly worried by the line, "No man should live in chains." (or close to that) Conan was the classic Chaotic Neutral character. He didn't care if people were enslaved, he just cared if he was.
Good point. IT seems (as I remember the stories) that he ended up freeing slaves though, just because he knocked off the slavers.
As we don't know the actual plot yet, could be a hint that Conan spends some time as a slave or prisoner himself, developing a hatred of slavery based upon his own experiences.
But yes, mostly self-interested 'Hero' would be a nice touch for a Conan Movie.
I think the "Riddle of Steel" is a movie thing. I've read the Conan stories more than a few times over and don't remember the phrase. Momoa probably rolled his eyes at it's mention because it was immortalized in the first movie and like Wert said, he's trying to seperate his take on the Conan movie from the original.Mark me as another that's happy they're shooting for something closer to the original character rather than staying in the shadow of the Arnold film.
The funny thing is after seeing that wiki-page I now remember having this exact same discussion about the 'riddle of steel' a few years ago, here on the boards, and having the same discovery that this concept is not directly taken from the books.
My mind is going Dave, I can feel it.
Apparently, now that I asserted to that one dude to read the books he now does *not* have to read the books. So, that dude can blissfully go on in life never having read the Conan books.
I think that is very sad, and I am upset at my powers.
And it seems re-reading the original stories would be a good idea for some.
What is even worse is that I own all of the >Lancer/Ace paperback editions, 1966-1977<. Occasionally I'll randomly select one off the shelf and read parts.
Also, I've been listening to some > audio versions on YouTube < .
.
I hope that one dude still reads the Conan books otherwise my senior-moment will have had tragic consequences..
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What is even worse is that I own all of the >Lancer/Ace paperback editions, 1966-1977<. Occasionally I'll randomly select one off the shelf and read parts.
Ahh... those are the books I cut my teeth on.
I'm currently enjoying the Savage Sword of Conan reprint collections that Dark Horse is putting out. But it's about time to spend some time in the master's works for me as well.
What is even worse is that I own all of the >Lancer/Ace paperback editions, 1966-1977<.
Hey I've got some of those.
when a barbarian thirsts......it is a thirst for blood.
Ooh, blood. And Ron Perlman!
when a barbarian thirsts......it is a thirst for blood.So in the REH novels did Conan ever actually refer to himself as a "barbarian"? I don't remember him doing so but it could have been so prevalent that I never noticed if he did.
I remember some speech about barbarism in the "Beyond the Black River" but I am not sure if Conan referred to himself as a barbarian or not.
I also recall he made a rather eloquent speech on the deck of a ship with Belit as they sailed a jungle river. I believe barbarism was a subject touched on there too.
Maybe some other REH fans can confirm.
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The "riddle of steel" pretty much sums up the difference between Movie Conan and Book Conan. Movie Conan is stupid, Book Conan is brilliant. Witness these answers to the question of the meaning of life:
Movie Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
Book Conan: "I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content."
Give me a Conan who can make a speech like that, and I'll be happy.
The "riddle of steel" pretty much sums up the difference between Movie Conan and Book Conan. Movie Conan is stupid, Book Conan is brilliant. Witness these answers to the question of the meaning of life:
Movie Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
Book Conan: "I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content."
Give me a Conan who can make a speech like that, and I'll be happy.
Me too.
The "riddle of steel" pretty much sums up the difference between Movie Conan and Book Conan. Movie Conan is stupid, Book Conan is brilliant. Witness these answers to the question of the meaning of life:
Movie Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
Book Conan: "I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content."
Give me a Conan who can make a speech like that, and I'll be happy.
Sounds like a close enough paraphrase :)
Put yourselves in the position of the filmmakers, who had to deal with a certain thick accent - would the longer version really have come across on screen so well under the circumstances?
Give me a Conan who can make a speech like that, and I'll be happy.
+1
The "riddle of steel" pretty much sums up the difference between Movie Conan and Book Conan. Movie Conan is stupid, Book Conan is brilliant. Witness these answers to the question of the meaning of life:
Movie Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
Book Conan: "I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content."
Give me a Conan who can make a speech like that, and I'll be happy.
Sounds like a close enough paraphrase :)
Put yourselves in the position of the filmmakers, who had to deal with a certain thick accent - would the longer version really have come across on screen so well under the circumstances?
I havent read alot of Conan (when I was 13-14 I read 2 or three of the pocket sized paperbacks over a weekend when I was sick). But I understood that "Movie" Conan was a different animal from "Book" Conan. And that's fine. It's amazing that people STILL miss the fact that writing is a singular endeavor and making a movie is a COLLABORATIVE endeavor. As such, becasue of it's nature there are going to be changes for whatever reason from the original source material. Has this sort of thing frustrated me on occaision? HELL YES. But I've learned to separate the two media and view them as different approaches. It's rare that I've seen an adaptation that's very close or faithful to it's source material (GAME OF THRONES S1 being the most recent)and I'm happy when I see it but I've learned not to expect it and to enjoy an adaptation on it's own merits.
The "riddle of steel" pretty much sums up the difference between Movie Conan and Book Conan. Movie Conan is stupid, Book Conan is brilliant. Witness these answers to the question of the meaning of life:
Movie Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
Book Conan: "I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content."
Give me a Conan who can make a speech like that, and I'll be happy.
Sounds like a close enough paraphrase :)
Put yourselves in the position of the filmmakers, who had to deal with a certain thick accent - would the longer version really have come across on screen so well under the circumstances?
Actually, he does have a longer monolouge near the end of the movie when Thulsa Doom's men are riding toward Conan and Sabutai's fortification near the old wizards home. His Prayer to Crom is about the length of that little speech. So I DO think that he could have pulled it off...
Seabryn wrote:
Put yourselves in the position of the filmmakers, who had to deal with a certain thick accent - would the longer version really have come across on screen so well under the circumstances?
In the books, it is always commented on how thick Conan's accent was.
And to Paul McCarthy: Belit was always one of my favorite characters in the books.
Actually, he does have a longer monolouge near the end of the movie when Thulsa Doom's men are riding toward Conan and Sabutai's fortification near the old wizards home. His Prayer to Crom is about the length of that little speech. So I DO think that he could have pulled it off...The "riddle of steel" pretty much sums up the difference between Movie Conan and Book Conan. Movie Conan is stupid, Book Conan is brilliant. Witness these answers to the question of the meaning of life:
Movie Conan: "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."
Book Conan: "I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content."
Give me a Conan who can make a speech like that, and I'll be happy.
Sounds like a close enough paraphrase :)
Put yourselves in the position of the filmmakers, who had to deal with a certain thick accent - would the longer version really have come across on screen so well under the circumstances?
Well the Movie Conan's response was to answer a warlord's question, "What is best in life?"
Book Conan's response was to answer his lover's, Belit Queen of the Black Coast, question, "What do you believe?" (prefaced with a discussion of a view different religious beliefs of their world). These questions require very different answers, so comparing the two is probably not a great demonstration of much.
Also if you watch the extended version of the Conan movie, he waxes on about how his life has turned out.
And to Paul McCarthy: Belit was always one of my favorite characters in the books.
Yeah, it's funny how much of an impression she made as she only appeared in one of the Conan tales, "Queen of the Black Coast." (Just doing some minor research here.) That was a heck of a story though.
The scene where Valeria (not the Valeria of the Red Brotherhood) in the movie version of Conan saves Conan from the attacking snake priest of Thulsa Doom is taken from Belit saving Conan in said tale.
Valeria of the Red Brotherhood ("Red Nails")and Belit are pretty well interchangable given they both have pirate backgrounds and are deadly swordswomen. I remember Belit better though, probably because of that epic speech Conan gives, already quoted.
I am looking forward to watching this movie.
Also, I figured out what was bugging me about it after watching the
trailers: everybody is clean and has washed hair.
I think it needs more filth. haha!
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when a barbarian thirsts......it is a thirst for blood.So in the REH novels did Conan ever actually refer to himself as a "barbarian"? I don't remember him doing so but it could have been so prevalent that I never noticed if he did.
I believe that he occasionally refers to the fact that others call him a barbarian, usually connected to an observation of how perverse and disgusting 'civilized' men can be.
I believe that he occasionally refers to the fact that others call him a barbarian, usually connected to an observation of how perverse and disgusting 'civilized' men can be.when a barbarian thirsts......it is a thirst for blood.So in the REH novels did Conan ever actually refer to himself as a "barbarian"? I don't remember him doing so but it could have been so prevalent that I never noticed if he did.
Yeah. I remember a few quotes like that.
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I have seen red band trailer for Pretty-Boy-Known-As-Conan film, and, IMHO, no amount of fake blood is going to make this work half as decent as Conan the Destroyer. As for comparing it to Conan the Barbarian... It's not even in the same league.
Regards,
Ruemere
WOw. Thanks for the laughs.
I mean, I assume this was said in jest. Conan the Destroyer had some great lines and some good action, but it was barely even a 'good' film. At least the original was a good film on it's own right, even if it was a crap representation of Conan as written.
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Yeah, seriously. Conan the Destroyer is one of the worst films I've ever seen. It's like the reigning champion of Adapation Decay, taking elements from several awesome stories and reducing them to utter garbage. And for what that film did to the sheer awesomeness that is Thoth Amon it may never be forgiven.
Never Forget! Never Forgive!
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Conan the Destroyer is a great movie, D&D movie that is not Conan. Seriously, sit down and watch it and keep in mind it is a D&D movie and not a Conan movie. It suddenly gets a lot better.
Conan the Destroyer is a great movie, D&D movie that is not Conan. Seriously, sit down and watch it and keep in mind it is a D&D movie and not a Conan movie. It suddenly gets a lot better.
I think the fact that they were going for PG to get it so more kids could get in helped them jack the movie all to hell.
Still not as bad, though, as the Red Sonja movie from back then.
Conan the Destroyer is a great movie, D&D movie that is not Conan. Seriously, sit down and watch it and keep in mind it is a D&D movie and not a Conan movie. It suddenly gets a lot better.
I am waiting for the day when a great D&D movie is actually a good movie by any other standard. I don't think I've ever seen one.
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I just watched the red band trailer (NSFW) for myself, and I'm still pretty excited about this movie. The red band trailer does include some footage not seen in the previous two trailers, and confirms that there is both nudity and some pretty excessive gore in the film.
That's good, because I thought the thing that really held Kull the Conqueror back from being a great movie was the ratings induced stupidity of things like the harem scene sans nudity -- why even bother with a harem scene if you aren't going to have nudity? The only reason barbarian movies are famous for harem scenes is because, duh, they justify a lot of mindless T&A. It's like putting a shower scene in a horror film then shooting it all shoulders up/knees down. Why are you bothering to used contrived devices to show nudity if you're not going to show nudity!?!
Anyways, I think this new film is going to blow the original Conan out of the water, and even if its got a dumb plot and poor characterization, I think on special effects and fight scenes alone its going to be better than Conan the Destroyer by a mile.
It's like putting a shower scene in a horror film then shooting it all shoulders up/knees down. Why are you bothering to used contrived devices to show nudity if you're not going to show nudity!?!
I just watched the red band trailer (NSFW) for myself, and I'm still pretty excited about this movie. The red band trailer does include some footage not seen in the previous two trailers, and confirms that there is both nudity and some pretty excessive gore in the film.
Anyways, I think this new film is going to blow the original Conan out of the water, and even if its got a dumb plot and poor characterization, I think on special effects and fight scenes alone its going to be better than Conan the Destroyer by a mile.
That does look a lot closer to Conan the Barbarian than Conan the Destroyer. I have hopes that this will be a great movie.
there's waaaay worse movies out there though.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha....... *breath* hahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaahahahah.... !!1
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They were awesome in Natural Born Killers.....
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I'm thinking this is gonna be good. Those Hollywood types have been known for screwing up book adaptations for decades, but I think they're getting better at it - I think the Harry Potter and the Narnia movies were both decent adaptations.
But they always gotta have an origin story. And this movie seems to share elements with both REH's writing and the original Ahnold movie. That way they can try to appeal to fans of the Ahnold flick, as well as fans of the REH works.
All part of casting as wide a net as possible in order to maximize the money!!! And if that enables them to make another one, and they adapt that one from one of REH's better stories (maybe Beyond the Black River or Red Nails), then more power to them!
And hell, if this epic fails, then maybe someone can convince HBO to take a shot at a series. They seem to be doing pretty good.
So, in closing, for those who are thinking the movie will suck without even having seen it - if you don't like it, let's see you do better.
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there's waaaay worse movies out there though.
I love that movie!!! I saw a dozen times when I was younger!
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It's like putting a shower scene in a horror film then shooting it all shoulders up/knees down. Why are you bothering to used contrived devices to show nudity if you're not going to show nudity!?!That would be pretty stupid thing to do.
Congratulations, you found the only exception to the rule and in doing so completely missed the point. Way to go. Two thumbs up.
ETA: Here's an example of the kind of scene I was mocking. (sadly SFW). We get Jessica Alba, naked in a shower, holding her hand over her boob so we don't accidentally see a nipple (shock!), and then getting out of the shower and...and...why was she in there in the first place? Does it have anything to do with the story? Is it important in any way?
No, it's this BS titillation scene made "safe," because apparently gratuitous nudity is, I dunno, sexist or some rot. I say that you either go whole hog and just revel in your own crepulence and use the shower scene as the excuse it is to show off an actress wet and naked, or you cut the damn scene out of the script in a effort to be non-exploitative. I don't really care which way a filmmaker goes, but this half-assed let's have our cake and our dignity too nonsense is just annoying.
It's like putting a shower scene in a horror film then shooting it all shoulders up/knees down. Why are you bothering to used contrived devices to show nudity if you're not going to show nudity!?!
First thing I thought of.
In fact, "name a movie with a shower scene" probably wouldn't be a good Family Feud question. Because everybody surveyed would say "Psycho."
... I think the Harry Potter and the Narnia movies were both decent adaptations...
*snicker*
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... I think the Harry Potter and the Narnia movies were both decent adaptations...*snicker*
Oh, come on. Say what you will about either the books, the movies, or both, but in each case Hollywood seemed to do a better job than usual with adapting them for the screen.
The same can likely be said about Game of Thrones, even though it's small screen instead of big.
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Aw, hey now! Them's fightin werds!!! Krull was awesome!! Hot chick and all! If only they'd given him more time to fight with the Glaive?!?
At the same time, Conan the Destroyer holds, IMHO again, the doubtful honor of being worse than Krull.
The worst thing about Krull - interestingly original premise with underwhelming (understatement of a year) execution - makes for big disappointment.
Regards,
Ruemere
It....It's like....I don't know you anymore!