So, in an upcoming Kingmaker reset (after a TPK and a months break), one of my characters is lobbying to play a Dread Necromancer... After reading the entire AP once again, and the class multiple times, I am pretty sure I am going to allow it, and I would like to toss him just one or two more spells (which of course must FIT the class and its other spells) at each level... If it were you, which spells would you most lean toward adding (I'd love to see some useful or cool third party spells on this list as well!)?
Thanks for the help, and please tell me the source of any spell you list!
The APG has some nice necromancy and necromantic themed stuff:
1st level
Sculpt Corpse
2nd level
Create Treasure Map (Since it uses a dead body to do this.)
Fester
Pox Pustules
Vomit Swarm (For some reason this feels appropriate, although I'm not sure why.)
3rd level
Blood Biography
Pain Strike (Not strictly necromancy, but fits a "dread" necromancer in theme, I'd think.)
4th level
Shadow Projection
5th level
Pain Strike, Mass
Rest Eternal (Not normally an arcane spell, but still thematically appropriate.)
Suffocation
6th level
Fester, Mass
Swarm Skin (Similar reasons as vomit swarm.)
Unwilling Shield
9th level
Suffocation, Mass
Other than those, I'd have to check the Dread Necromancer's current list to see if there's any glaring omissions.
Kaisoku has done some nice work for you.
I would add that for each addition, the player should subtract one known spell. This has a net effect of granting additional flavor & versatility, but hopefully not overpowering the class or slowing down game play when it comes to that players turn and he has to scroll through "just three more spells."
Kaisoku has done some nice work for you.
I would add that for each addition, the player should subtract one known spell. This has a net effect of granting additional flavor & versatility, but hopefully not overpowering the class or slowing down game play when it comes to that players turn and he has to scroll through "just three more spells."
I disagree with subtracting spells. The extra spells don't make the class OP'd anyway. No need to fix something that is not broken. I also don't see what flavor it adds. The player could just balk at such a suggestion, and go cleric or wizard.
The only thing to watch out for is the ridiculous number of undead they can control. I would only ask that the player be reasonable with how many minions he has around so as to not bog the game down.
Kingmaker is possibly the best game to have a large number of undead. Because you can leave them places and it will have an impact on the game, without needing to keep track of tons of creatures in a single combat.
I hope the game is intended for evil players... there's some tweaking that'll need to be done to pull it off, but being a player in a Kingmaker game right now, I can see it working.
Thanks so much Kaisoku! This comes in handy, and I have been considering what to do as far as cutting one or two of the DN's spells... And for the record it's a Neutral Kingmaker campaign, but the players have seen to it that it seems to be leaning toward the evil!
I was saying don't have them all in combat. As for leaving them out I would leave strict orders for them to not attack anyone. I don't know your DM, but you don't want a bunch of adventurers knocking on your door, so to speak. :)
Alright, bought the APG anyone know if there are any good additions to the DN spell list from Ultimate Magic (as I don't have that one)?
As far as I can tell Dread Necro's get no cantrips (which is fine), just checking this to be correct...
For the record, I was planning on augmenting by or replacing two spells per spell level, and here's the printed Dread Necromancer's printed spell lists...
Level 1:
Bane
Bestow Wound
Cause Fear
Chill Touch
Detect Magic
Detect Undead
Doom
Hide From Undead
Inflict Light Wounds
Ray of Enfeeblement
Summon Undead
Undetectable Alignment
Level 2:
Blindness/Deafness
Command Undead
Darkness
Death Knell
False Life
Gentle Repose
Ghoul Touch
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Scare
Spectral Hand
Summon Swarm
Summon undead II
Level 3:
Crushing Despair
Death Ward
Halt Undead
Inflict Serious Wounds
Ray of Exhaustion
Speak with dead
Summon Undead III
Vampiric Touch
Level 4:
Animate Dead
Bestow Curse
Black Tentacles (the "named" version)
Contagion
Death Ward
Dispel Magic
Enervation
Fear
Giant Vermin
Inflict Critical Wounds
Phantasmal Killer
Poison
Summon Undead IV
Level 5:
Blight
Cloudkill
Fire in the Blood
Greater Dispel Magic
Insect Plague
Lesser Planar Binding
Magic Jar
Mass Inflict Light Wounds
Nightmare
Oath of Blood
Slay Living
Summon Undead V
Undeath to Death
Unhallow
Waves of Fatigue
Level 6:
Acid Fog
Circle of Death
Create Undead
Eyebite
Geas/Quest
Harm
Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds
Planar Binding
Waves of Exhaustion
Level 7:
Control Undead
Destruction
Finger of Death
Greater Harm
Mass Inflict Serious Wounds
Song of Discord
Vile Death
Level 8:
Create Greater Undead
Horrid Wilting
Mass Inflict Critical Wounds
Symbol of Death
Level 9:
Energy Drain
Imprison Soul
Mass Harm
Plague of Undead
Wail of the Banshee
So anything glaringly omitted? Anything need to be rearranged for the Pathfinder system? I know I'm asking a lot... sorry...
If I do REPLACE any spells on the spell list at all, it'd be anachronistic spells (at least in my mind)...
Anyway, thanks for the help...
So anything you would add or subtract from this spell list to get a more "Pathfinder" feel?
So anything you would add or subtract from this spell list to get a more "Pathfinder" feel?
I have really wanted to play a dread necromancer for a while & since my friends and I have basically switched over to pathfinder, I went and wrote my own update for the class. Feel free to take anything you find interesting.
I do point out though that the class has the advanced learning feature. IMO, this ability was put into the game in most of D&D's later spellcasters to account for new spells being printed & therefore, the class can adapt.d6 HD -> d8 [ this happened to every class that got a d6 ]
change spells per day at 20th level from 5 -> 6 [see the sorc spell progression]
Skills: bluff, craft, disguise, intimidate, know. arcana, know. religion, linguistics [maybe], profession, spellcraft, stealth
@ 1st level change rebuke undead to: you gain command undead as a bonus feat usable 3+ cha modifer times per day.
@ 1st level: a Dread Necromancer gains Mother Cyst feat as a bonus feat [ Libris Mortis page something ]
@ 3rd level change the radius of negative energy burst to 15 feet.
I felt this is a compromise between the current ability [which is better than current channeling because it injures living things & heals undead] and channeling which can do only 1 at a time.
@ 6th level scabrous touch Change to the DC for subsequent saving throws against the disease is the same as the Dread Necromancer's scabrous touch DC [ although this shouldn't happen often except with regards to fleeing villians ].
@ 11th level, you may infect targets with: life blindness, sound sickness, and melting fury.
@ 16th level, you may infect targets with: deathsong, faceless hate, possession infection, and warp touch.
The diseases listed @ 11th & 16th level are found in the Book of Vile Darkness.
If you like the mother cyst idea, then add: a Dread Necromancer may expend a use of scabrous touch to infect the target with a necrotic cyst. If the subject is affected by a "protection from....." spell, roll an opposed caster level [counting only your Dread Necromancer levels] check to ignore the protection.
@ 7th level Lich body, add: a Dread Necromancer gains Tomb-Tainted Soul as a bonus feat [ Libris Mortis page 31 ].
this feat changes it so the Necromancer is healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy.
@ 8th level Undead Mastery, add: Intelligent undead no longer receive new saving throws per day to break free from a Dread Necromancer's command. This ability counts as the corpsecrafter feat [Libris Mortis page 25]
Now on to the spell list which I gutted - sorry this won't be in alphabetical order. There are spells printed at unusual levels or printed twice in the original so I've made some calls where the spells should really go.
You could argue to add suffocation at 5th and mass suffocation at 9th but the class already gets every death spell in the core rulebook - it just seems a bit redundant.
I could list a few more spells I have jotted down to fill in for advanced learning slots but its hard to make a case to put the spell on the spell list vs making the player get it through advanced learning. If you are interested in these spells, let me know I'll post the names and books containing them [all printed by wizards].
0 Level [ in case you want to add one in ]: bleed, detect poison, read magic, stabilize, disrupt undead, touch of fatigue
1st level: add sculpt corpse [APG]
2nd level: add fester [APG], vomit swarm [APG], desecrate
3rd level: remove death ward - add deeper darkness & dispel magic
4th level: remove dispel magic - add Rest eternal [APG]
5th level: remove greater dispel magic, lesser planar binding, oath of blood, and undeath to death - add disrupting weapon
6th level: remove geas/quest, planar binding, and waves of exhaustion - add swarm skin [APG], greater dispel magic, mass fester [APG], and Undeath to death
7th level: remove song of discord - Add blasphemy, Dictum, Word of Chaos, and waves of exhaustion
8th level: no change
9th level: no change.
One little tidbit to throw in here from a Dread Necro I played in 3.5 a while back. Greater Harm is a 3.0 spell, and mechanically works very poorly compared to the actual Harm spell in its current form. I would suggest replacing it with Avasculate (3.5 Spell Compendium).
Yeah, Veneth reminded me that he is absolutely right about greater harm. To go up 1 spell level just to go from touch -> range close is fine. But to change the damage from 10 per level to 1d12 is terrible. No one wants to trade a solid 10 for an average of 6.5 damage.
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in 3.5 there were only a few spells worth adding with advanced learning:
dance of ruin (bovd, level 2)
delay death (hoh level 3 or 4)
contingent ressurection (hoh level 7)
the breaker is contingent res let's you get a true res 1 round after dying if you can declare what's going to kill you before hand and last all day. Delay death makes you live to - infinity for 1rd/ level as an immediate action.
"I predict I'm going to die because my spell ends". BAMF. True rez'd
Dance of ruin is a 2d20 burst centered on you. Has a burst range of 20ft/level or some nonsense. Its a fun spell, but also a full round cast
So, with the release of Ultimate Magic, any absolute must adds?