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I’m looking for advice on spell selection for an Oracle. This character would be a general support/utility character. Details below.
I’m looking for advice on picking the best everyday-use spells considering just the generic Oracle/Cleric spell list and not the spells gained from Oracle Mystery selection.
I have taken a pass at spell selection for levels 1 thru 6 for this character.
I would certainly appreciate advice and discussion on the merits of specific spells.
RACE:
Human w/ Oracle as favored class for the bonus spells known per each level gained.
ABILITIES:
Oracle L1 - Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 10, Chr 19
Oracle L1 - Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 10, Chr 20
MYSTERY:
I’ve chosen the Wind Mystery for defense and low profile once the invisibility and fly revelations kick in.
FEATS:
Oracle L1 – Additional Revelation, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Oracle L3 – Augment Summoning
Oracle L5 - ??
REVELATIONS:
Oracle L1 – Air Barrier, Gaseous Form
Oracle L3 - Invisibility
SPELLS:
Oracle L1
Spells 1st Level – 4/day – Bless, Cause Fear
Oracle L3
Spells 1st level – 6/day – Bless, Cause Fear, Summon Monster I
Oracle L4
Spells 1st level – 8/day – Bless, Cause Fear, Summon Monster I, Sanctuary
Spells 2nd level – 4/day – Summon Monster II
Oracle L5
Spells 1st level – 8/day – Bless, Cause Fear, Summon Monster I, Sanctuary, Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith
Spells 2nd level – 5/day – Summon Monster II, Resist Energy
Oracle L6
Spells 1st level – 8/day – Bless, Cause Fear, Sanctuary, Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith, Divine Favor
Spells 2nd level – 6/day – Resist Energy, Remove Paralysis, Hold Person
Spells 3rd level – 4/day – Summon Monster III
I'm playing an Oracle of Battle in Council of Thieves right now. I'm finding I really like buff spells. As an Oracle, you get more castings per day, so it feels easier to cast things like Bull's Strength. When I play a Cleric, I'm always saving my one casting of a buff like that for the next bigger thing.
We also have a cleric in the party, so I'm not selecting any "remove" spells.
Lesser Restoration is crucial IMO. Even with another cleric in my party, I find that I use this spell a lot. Since it only removes 1d4 ability damage, when you have to cast it, you often have to cast it a lot.
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Some spells there are good to have
1st level Comprehend Languages, Obscuring Mist, Remove Fear,
2nd level Align Weapon, Weapon of Awe
3rd level Invisibility Purge, Locate Object, Protection from Energy, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Disease,
4th level Holy Smite, Neutralize Poison, Restoration, Blessing of Fervor,
6th level Banishment, Symbol of Persuasion,
Divine caster must haves
1st Bless, Bane, Cause Fear, Command
2nd Hold Person, Resist Energy, Lesser Restoration, Spiritual Weapon
3rd Remove Curse, Blindness/Deafness, Daylight
4th Death Ward, Freedom of Movement, Restoration
5th Breath of Life, Greater Command, True Seeing
6th Heal
Summon Monster __ . Is good for summoning flankers don't expect them to do any realy damage or be very effective. They become flankers to give your party melees a +2 to hit. Summon Monster II (2nd level spell caster level 4) Your summoing a CR 1. Even with Augment Summoning there a CR 2. Most of the stuff you will be fighting is CR 2-6. Your not going to be wasting spells on CR 2 fights. CR 4-6 is when you will start using spells. So the summoned creature is 2 or more CR below what you summoned it to fight.
Command and Greater Command. These are some of the best spells a divine caster gets. These let you to control the battle field. ( I stop damage so I don't need to heal. )
Spiritual Weapon uses your BAB + your casting mod to hit. (I don't rember where the post is. There is a ruling on it out there.) So at level 4 when you can cast it. Your chances of hiting and doing damage are much greater then if you cast Summon Monster.
Breath of Life over Rase Dead. Breath of Life you use on the battle field. Rase Dead you carry as scrolls just incase.
As a spontaneous caster of any sort I would avoid spells with a hard HD cap like the plague. Cause Fear is one such spell.
Cause Fear in particular, I do not like. It makes the creature flee from you at their best movement. While this can sometimes be good- usually it means.. they'll run into some other room or whatnot and let folks know where you are. Whether you are in a dungeon, a castle, or the forest.. some guy running away screaming does nothing in your favor but let everyone else know "hey, something is here". That is usually *bad*.
I also do not like it because so many things are immune to it. If you are doing a specific AP that you know will have alot of not-immune things, or if your DM makes campaigns from scratch that have alot of random stuff (rather than tons of undead, or tons of golems, or whatever) then the utility goes up somewhat but I prefer to h ave spells that aren't blanket useless against a large part of the "DM Arsenal" of critters.
5HD cap, mind effecting, and "runs away to tell everyone else you are here" all make this a "no thank you" to me- especially as a spontaneous caster.
As a spontaneous caster I'd have to sit and ask myself "what animals am I really needing to summon" and then be very very selective about what summon spells I chose. Having so few spells known- I'd likely Not take the full I-III line of spells.
Hold Person: I'd avoid this one for one of the reasons Cause Fear is bad: blanket immunity. However, if your DM/AP/whatever has alot of things in it that it works against then the spell is *a w e s o m e*. Just be aware: its useless against a ton of things.
3rd level: Take Dispel Magic. I'd make this my first choice. It may not be something you cast everyday but when you want it, you need it up front and center. Wands and scrolls of it are worthless- you need it at your full CL.
Invis purge, magic circles, are all good. prayer, prottections from energy, searing light (never hurts to have some damage potential).
Alot of it is just.. what you prefer. I've just found that spells relying on one type of creature to work, or that are subject to a wide-spread blanket immunity are just not good for spont. casters. YmmV of course though.
-S
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Thanks for the feedback…
Belafon, thanks for pointing out about the gaseous form revelation not being available until 7th level.
Here are some further thoughts on 1st and 2nd level spell choices… Apologies in advance for a long post...
1st Level
Bless – Sounds like a ‘must have’ everyday useful spell. (Morale bonus... will stack w/ Prayer later on)
Bane – Sounds like this would be very good at low levels. I think the usefulness could be extended w/ Heighten Spell. I think the penalties would stack w/ Prayer.
Cause Fear – Debatable. As Selgard mentioned, the HD cap means it is not useful long-term and would have to be swapped out fairly early on.
Command – A lot of people like this. I can see the benefit of setting up a round of attacks of opportunity for your melee team. I think Heighten Spell would help here as well. Probably not so useful if you take the Oracle’s Tongues curse.
Protection from Evil, Obscuring Mist, Remove Fear, Shield of Faith – Is it perhaps better to get a wand of these?
Regarding ‘Protection from Evil’, ‘Shield of Faith’ – Shield of Faith for when encountering non-evil dangers.
Regarding ‘Obscuring Mist’ – I have never used this much. I have always thought that since it is centered on the caster that that is a big limitation on its usefulness. So, I am curious about how others have used it effectively. With Oracle, it might be especially useful for the Waves Mystery and, I believe, the Flame Mystery as well since both ‘Water Sight’ and ‘Gaze of Flames’ grant normal vision in ‘fog’.
Divine Favor – It scales. Perhaps this is useful to take at level 6 for the +2 (+1 per 3 levels).
Sanctuary – I have seen this used very effectively. I think with Heighten Spell it would be even better. Any thoughts?
2nd Level
I like the following 2nd level spells: Hold Person, Resist Energy, Lesser Restoration, and Align Weapon, (from Calagnar’s list)… plus Remove Paralysis… plus the buff spells Bear’s Endurance, Bull’s Strength, Eagle’s Spendor. However, since it takes several levels to learn this many 2nd level spells, the question becomes one of priority.
Hold Person – At 4th level (with extra point in the primary ability) the DC would be 10+4+2=16 Will save.
Lesser Restoration, Remove Paralysis – Are these better as a wands? I agree w/ Irontruth that Lesser Restoration is critical at times. I just do not think you would need it every day.
Resist Energy, Align Weapon – Wand or Known? Like Lesser Restoration and Remove Paralysis I do not think these would be needed every day. However, the increased duration would be situational useful if you are prepping for an assault.
Bear’s Endurance, Bull’s Strength – Both good buffs. I think Bear’s Endurance would be useful to everyone, not just melee. Plus, melee might be more likely to have at least the +2 to strength item.
Eagle’s Splendor – Useful for an Oracle. It is a good boost to the Oracle’s primary stat (and thus spell DC’s for Hold Person, etc.) until the 16k gp ‘headband’ is affordable. Who else in the party would have this memorized?
Spiritual Weapon – I think this is not as good for Oracles as for Clerics. A big drawback for this spell for Oracles is that the BAB uses your Wisdom modifier instead of Charisma modifier (unless there is errata that changes this).
Admonishing Ray – I think this would be useful starting level 7. At level 7, you would have 2 touch-attack rays of 4d6 non-lethal damage. It is not support/buffing, but it has utility and as quoted on the boards it is ‘almost a damage spell’.
Silence – I think this would be good as a wand. It could be very interesting with fly plus invisibility.
Regarding Summon Monsters… Is this generally less/more/as powerful than it was in 3.5?
summoned monsters are considered more powerful in pathfinder as the list was tweaked to better them, in response to your last question
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Bear’s Endurance, Bull’s Strength, Eagle’s Spendor. These are a trap don't do it. They are usefull for only a few levels.
Resist Energy>Lesser Restoration>Align Weapon
Lesser Restoration - There are alot of things that cause stat damage. And these is the level you start finding out how meny things realy do stat damage. The problem with wanding all of the stat damage is cost.
Most remove _____ are better on wand. (this is not restoration)
Remove cures is the exception, becous there is a caster check to remove the curse.
Divine Favor – unless your making a melee oracle it's useless.
Spiritual Weapon - yes it's Cha for oracles. No I was not able to find the offical ruleing.
Admonishing Ray - Requires a range touch. It's not good for the same reason most range touch spells are not good. You have to hit your target.
Obscuring Mist - Don't know never use it.
Protection from Evil, and Shield of Faith. Protection from Evil wand. Shield of Faith cast your caster level affects the bonus.
Sanctuary - Only usefull if your making a pure healing oracle. I have never made a pure healing divine caster ever. So im not sure.
Bear’s Endurance, Bull’s Strength, Eagle’s Spendor. These are a trap don't do it. They are usefull for only a few levels.
This is partially true, but remember, you can swap out one spell every even level. I wouldn't load up on these spells, but I would take at least one. At level 4-6, Bull's Strength is very effective to buff your melee/summoned monsters. Though I would probably skip it if you're going heavy summoning and picking up Augmented Summoning.
Ranged Touch spells aren't that bad, the trick is to pick targets that aren't in melee. Oracles aren't usually going to have a high Dex, but 3/4's BAB means most targets aren't too bad to hit with a touch attack, even if they have cover. It's melee + cover that will make it hard to hit.
I agree on "Remove [Blank]". Either wands or a couple potions is usually sufficient.