Lvl 7 Gunslinger Playtest, Lewdburrito's Arena of Unpleasant Squishy Inevitable Death
This playtest will be set up very similarly to YD's Arena Style playtests (random monsters of increasing CR, Potions, Reloading and Sideline Healing between rounds, etc.).
Note: There are 3 CLW and 2 CMW available for sideline healing CLW (1d8+3) and CMW (2d8+3)
Note: All gun related items (firearms, ammo, cartridges) are assumed to be crafted by the 'slinger and therefore Half-Price.
Further Note: One of the pistols is the pistol the gunslinger begins play with; and thus is 500gp cheaper
The purpose of this particular playtest is to run a TWF gunslinger and to test out the 7th level deeds. Now, to present our Gunslinger:
7th Level Human Gunslinger "Steven" 20 point buy
Str: 11
Dex: 22 (17 + 2 racial + 1 lvl, +2 Belt)
Con: 14
Wis: 16 (14 + 2 Headband)
Int: 10
Cha: 7
Feats:
1: Rapid Reload (Pistol)
1h: Deadly Aim
1b: Gunsmithing
3: TWF
4b: Quick Draw
5: Point Blank Shot
7: Imp TWF
Deeds:
Deadeye
Gunslinger's Dodge
Quick-Clear
Gunslinger Initiative
Pistol Whip
Utility Shot
Dead Shot
Targeting
Class Abilities:
Bravery +2
Gun Training (Pistol)
Equipment (23,500):
+1 Pistol (2,300)
+1 Pistol (2,800)
+1 Mithril Chain Shirt (2,100)
Ring of Protection +1 (2,000)
Cloak of Resistance +1 (1,000)
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 (4,000)
Headband of Inspired Wisdom +2 (4,000)
Iuon Torch (75)
Boots of Elvenkind (2,500)
Potion of CLW x5 (250)
Potion of CMW x2 (600)
100 Paper Cartridges (600)
100 Loads of Powdwer and Shot (110)
Gunsmith's Kit (15)
5 Flare Cartridges (50)
Mwk Dagger (302)
NOTE: I have no idea what to do with the extra 798gp
Combat Stats:
Init: +8
HP: 66 (10+ 14 COn + 36 lvl + 6 Favored Class) NOTE: HP per lvl determined using PFS rules (6 hP per lvl for d10 HD)
AC: 22 (10 + 6 Dex + 4 Armor + 1 Enchancement + 1 Deflection)
Touch: 17
Flat-Footed: 15
Fort: 8
Ref: 12
Will: 6 [+8 vs Fear]
CMB: +7
CMD: 23
Grit: 3
Acrobatics: +21 (7 ranks + 3 Class Skill + 6 Dex +5 Elf Boots)
Attacks (NOTE: Iterative Attacks and TWF made possible by paper cartridges and Rapid Reload, Free action to reload each barrel)
Pistol +15/+10 (7 BAB + 6 Dex + 1 Enhancement + 1 PBS) | 1d8+8 (6 Gun Training + 1 Enchancement +1 PBS)
TWF Pistols +11/+6 per shot (7 BAB + 6 Dex + 1 Enhancement + 1 PBS - 4 TWF) | 1d8+8 per shot)
TWF DA Pistols +9/ +4 per shot (7 BAB + 6 Dex + 1 Enhancement + 1 PBS - 4 TWF -2 DA) | 1d8+12 per shot
That's it for now folks. I have to make some monster tables and roll some dice, but my brain feels like pudding from all the numbers I just ran. See you folks in a few hours with some results.
|
Looking forward to seeing this. You might find the monster database at PFSRD useful. Just sort by CR and then randomize with a dX. Good luck!
Arena Time!
Arena is a 45 ft cube, Combatants begin on the ground adjacent to one wall with equal distance to the two walls on their sides. Their opponents begin adjacent to the opposite wall directly across of them.
CR3 - Water Mephit
Init: Mephit's 21 beats Steven's 14
Round 1:
Mephit uses Acid Arrow, rolls a 17 and it hits Steven for 7 damage; Mephit flies upwards 40 feet.
Steven moves forward 30 feet; fires one shot with DA and rolls a 25 and hits the mephit for 16 damage; Steven reloads.
Round 2:
Mephit descends 30 feet and uses Acid Breath, dealing 3 damage, Steven passes his save and takes 1 damage.
Steven takes 3 damage from Acid Arrow, Steven uses full attack action. First attack threats for critical and confirms! Mephit takes 65 damage and dies. Steven reloads.
Acid Arrow does additional 3 damage next round.
Post Fight: Steven uses sideline CMW and is healed for 17, so is back to full 66.
Thoughts: The Mephit was never really a threat, but did manage to take some hp off. The crit damage with Deadly Aim and Gun Training on a x4 is silly but satisfying.
--------------------------------
CR4 - Grizzly Bear
Init: Steven's 12 beats Grizzly's 9
Round 1:
Steven uses a full attack. First shot rolls a 27 and hits the bear for 15 damage. Steven reloads. Steven takes his second shot and rolls a 27 again, dealing 11 damage. Steven reloads.
Steven takes his 3rd shot and rolls an 11 and misses. Steven reloads. Steven takes his final shot and rolls a 14 and misses. Steven reloads.
The grizzly charges Steven and rolls a 28 with a claw dealing 6 damage. The grizzly attempts to grapple Steven and rolls a 29 succeeding.
Round 2:
Steven attempts to escape the Grapple rolling a 16 which fails.
Grizzly rolls to maintain Grapple and rolls a 36. The bear damages Steven for 7 damage.
Round 3:
Steven attempts to escape the Grapple rolling a 13 which fails.
Grizzly rolls to maintain Grapple and rolls a 32. The bear damages Steven for 6 damage.
Round 4: Steven attempts to escape the Grapple rolling a 22 which succeeds! Steven uses Acrobatics to tumble 15 feet away from the Grizzly Bear and rolls a 23 which suceeds.
Grizzly charges Steven and rolls a 13 which misses.
Round 5: Steven takes a 5 foot step away from the Grizzly. Steven uses a Full Attack ans uses DA. Steven rolls a 12 and hits for 18 damage. The Grizzly dies. Steven reloads.
Post Fight: Steven uses on potion of CMW and heals 13 damage and uses one sideline CLW and heals 5. Steven is at 65 HP.
Thoughts: Wow, the gunslinger is vulnerable to grapples. His CMB to escape is pretty awful and there isn't much he can do to damage in a grapple.
Steven probably should have used Targeting to knock the bear prone on Round 1 and then used a full attack when he was in Touch and PBS range.
--------------------------------
CR5 - Ice Golem
Init: Steven's 9 beats the Golem's 3
Round 1:
Steven spends one Grit point to use Targeting. Steven targets the golem's legs and rolls a 22 which hits. Steven deals 10 above the golem's DR and the golem falls prone. Steven reloads with a Flare Cartridge.
The Golem stands up and moves 30 ft. toward Steven, it is now 15 ft. away.
Round 2:
Steven uses a Full Attack and uses DA. Steven shoots his flare cartridge at the golem and rolls a 19 which hits for 3 damage above DR. The golem is blinded and Steven is Dazzled. Steven reloads.
Steven rolls a 26 which hits and deals 13 above DR. Steven reloads. Steven rolls a 15 which hits and deals 9 over DR. Steven reloads a Flare Cartridge.
Steven rolls a 22 which hits and deals 9 damage over DR. Steven reloads.
Ice Golem moves forward and attacks. The golem rolls a 28 but fails his miss chance.
Round 3: Steven uses a 5 foot step. Steven makes a Full Attack using DA. Steven rolls a misfire. Steven fires his Flare Cartridge and rolls a misfire. Steven fires and rolls a 14 and deals 9 above DR and destroys the Ice Golem, regaining one grit point.
Post Fight: Steven uses Quick Clear to repair his guns with two Standard Actions.
Thoughts: The misfires really had me worried about explosions or getting smashed by the golem. I'm going to try and work in Dead Shot into the next round.
--------------------------------
CR6 - Young White Dragon
Init: Steven's 14 beats the Dragon's 11
Round 1:
Steven makes a 5 foot step towards the dragon, he is now 40 ft away. Steven spends 1 grit point on Deadeye and 1 point on Dead Shot. Steven uses DA and rolls a 15 and a 12 which both hit and deal 25 damage. Steven reloads a Flare Cartridge.
The Dragon moves forward 30 ft. It uses it's Breath Weapon dealing 26 damage, Steven fails and takes full.
Round 2:
Steven tumbles back 5 and right 10 ft rolls a 24 and passes. Steven shoots the Flare Cartridge rolling a 33 and hitting for 6 damage and blinding the Dragon. Steven reloads.
The Dragon moves adjacent to Steven. It uses it's Bite and rolls a 31 and confirms the critical but fails his miss chance. (Whew)
Round 3:
Steven makes a 5 foot step away from the Dragon. He uses Full Attack and Deadly Aim. The Dragon's AoO Bite rolls a 21 and misses. Steven rolls a 25 and hits dealing 20 damage. Steven reloads.
Steven rolls a 15 and hits dealing 13 damage. Steven reloads. Steven rolls a 13 and hits dealing 13 damage and killing the Dragon, Steven regains one grit point. Steven reloads.
Post Fight: Steven uses his last sidelines CMW recovering 13 HP. He uses his last two sidelines CLW and regains 13 HP. Steven is now at 65 HP.
Thoughts: Dragons are scary, the Gunslinger did well for himself though, the touch AC really saved his butt.
--------------------------------
CR7- Elephant
Init: Steven's 15 beats the Elephant's 11
Round 1:
Steven takes a 5 foot step towards the Elephant. Steven spends 1 grit point to use Targeting. Steven targets the Elephants legs and rolls a 29 dealing 12 damage and knocking the Elephant prone. Steven reloads.
The Elephant stands up and moves adjacent to Steven.
Round 2:
Steven tumbles away from the Elephant rolling a 25 and failing. The Elephant's Gore AoO rolls a 29 and hits for 17 damage. Steven shoots using DA and rolls a 20 dealing 18 damage.
The Elephant tramples Steven dealing 23 damage but Steven saves with a 27 and take 11 damage.
Round 3:
Steven tumbles away from the elephant rolling a 40 and passing. Steven shoots using DA and rolls a 19 which hits and deals 15 damage. Steven reloads.
The Elephant tramples Steven dealing 29 damage and Steven fails his save with 15 and takes full.
Round 4:
In a last ditch effort, Steven makes a Full Attack. The Elephant's Gore AoO rolls a 24 and hits dealing 19 damage and killing Steven.
Game Over, Man.
--------------------------------
Overall Thoughts: The Gunslingers special shots are almost exclusively full round actions which makes moving around the battlefield very difficult. Creatures specialized in melee eat the Gunslinger for breakfast. Also, trample is broken as all hell. I might try this again tomorrow, but my brain is fried right now.
Also, props for naming him Steven. Brought a smile to my face, for sure.
I don't think I can ever dissociate this class from the Dark Tower. Not that I have a problem with that, of course. :)
Steven takes his 3rd shot and rolls an 11 and misses. Steven reloads. Steven takes his final shot and rolls a 14 and misses. Steven reloads.
you are missing flat footed touch ac in the first round on the grizzly?
Deft shootist would be a wat better feat to take at 7th level than imp TWF
Neat playtest, I like Yuengling's arena style. Looks like the Gunslinger really took some nasty hits after being grappled - he has a high Dex, so perhaps Escape Artist would be a good skill investment.
This sorta makes me want to do a playtest of this style as well; I've always found the class intriguing, finding the kinks could be fun.
Steven takes his 3rd shot and rolls an 11 and misses. Steven reloads. Steven takes his final shot and rolls a 14 and misses. Steven reloads.
you are missing flat footed touch ac in the first round on the grizzly?
Grizzly is 35 ft away. So it would be resolved against his normal AC.
Deft shootist would be a wat better feat to take at 7th level than imp TWF
Probably right, I might do a repeat with a slightly different build.
I'm torn between trying a higher level or repeating this one.
Steven is wielding a pair of pistols, one in each hand, no?
Then how the heck is he reloading them? Does he have a third hand hidden somewhere? Should it not take two hands to reload one pistol? Reloading a gun with no hands is a trick I'd like to see!
love the fight,
but how is it that steven gets to reload his pistol as a free action? is he really burning through his paper catridges like a madman? couse it seems to me the gunslinger can either choose to be not effective, and then relatively cheap to play, or effective and then burn through gold like crazy. spending 6 g per shot, and misfiring in a 1 and 2 is kinda a lot.
Steven is wielding a pair of pistols, one in each hand, no?
Then how the heck is he reloading them? Does he have a third hand hidden somewhere? Should it not take two hands to reload one pistol? Reloading a gun with no hands is a trick I'd like to see!
I see nothing in the rules saying you need a free hand to load a firearm. Besides, there could be all kinds of tricks to reload faster. Or the firearms could be breach loaders, there are all sorts of possibilities to fit the rules. RAW says it's legit.
Though you are right seeing someone reloading even one of those pistols that fast would be a sight to see, much less two. Maybe if we were Gunslingers we would know their secrets :)
love the fight,
but how is it that steven gets to reload his pistol as a free action? is he really burning through his paper catridges like a madman? couse it seems to me the gunslinger can either choose to be not effective, and then relatively cheap to play, or effective and then burn through gold like crazy. spending 6 g per shot, and misfiring in a 1 and 2 is kinda a lot.
Yes he is burning through paper cartridges like a madman. Cost vs. effectiveness seems to be a bit of the nature of using fancy new technology in a medieval tech level world. Though at lvl 7 the cost of paper cartridges seems to be fairly irrelevant seeing as most monsters go down in about 4 or 5 shots. But it is still more than an arrow.
i wonder if it wouldnt be better, with pure cost effectiveness in mind, to just wield 2 pepperbox's. He would then be able to fire atleast some regular bullets, and with a cost less than 1/5 of the paper catridge, it could possibly be better.
|
Round 1:
Steven uses a full attack. First shot rolls a 27 and hits the bear for 15 damage. Steven reloads. Steven takes his second shot and rolls a 27 again, dealing 11 damage. Steven reloads.
Steven takes his 3rd shot and rolls an 11 and misses. Steven reloads. Steven takes his final shot and rolls a 14 and misses. Steven reloads.
The grizzly charges Steven and rolls a 28 with a claw dealing 6 damage. The grizzly attempts to grapple Steven and rolls a 29 succeeding.
Not sure if i am going crazy or not, but how are you reloading 4 times in round 1 when it is a move action to reload a 1 handed firearm with rapid reload?
EDIT: nevermind, I found the new cartridge rules. I do agree with RD about the reloading. It seems to be implied in hte hand crossbow entry...
Crossbow, Hand: You can draw a hand crossbow back by hand. Loading a hand crossbow is a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity.You can shoot, but not load, a hand crossbow with one hand at no penalty. You can shoot a hand crossbow with each hand, but you take a penalty on attack rolls as if attacking with two light weapons.
Steven is wielding a pair of pistols, one in each hand, no?
Then how the heck is he reloading them? Does he have a third hand hidden somewhere? Should it not take two hands to reload one pistol? Reloading a gun with no hands is a trick I'd like to see!
'Dork, I can do it in Real Life (well not just me, many people) what you are doing is stuffing the barrel of the pistol in the opposite armpit, to free up that hand, then switching. I also happen to be ambidextrous, so it might be harder for people with 'handedness' however I imagine since I didn't "invent" it, and have seen other people do it first, and it's rare to be ambidextrous, that with some practice it's practical.
What I do with my double gun gunslingers however, is take the feat 'weapon juggle' from advanced feats: alchemist PDF. Which is sort of like the opposite of quick draw, which allows me to sheath weapons as a free action. So quick draw, TWF and weapon juggle eat up three feats, in the long run it's probably not an awesome build but it gives me the build I want with the action economy I want. Which is:
I own 6 pistols.
I can draw, fire and reholster. Draw, Fire, Reholster, Draw, Fire Reholster.
On round Four I have to get creative as I'm out of reload.
So I can draw and reload and fire one pistol on round four, or reload two pistols on round four, or cower behind the wizard on round.
At 9th level where the character is now, a goodly number of the fights are over in 3 rounds. But my slinger doesn't have deft shootist, so it's rare for me to get 3 rounds of both barrels off any way. I do alot of shooting one and moving.
Really I only shoot both pistols when I am in close range and basically can't miss and want to tear something up.
However Deft Shootist should be a deed. But...then again I like that it's a feat, due to the fact that my amatuer gunslinger Alchemist can get it too...
Steven is wielding a pair of pistols, one in each hand, no?
Then how the heck is he reloading them? Does he have a third hand hidden somewhere? Should it not take two hands to reload one pistol? Reloading a gun with no hands is a trick I'd like to see!
I have to agree. Every other missle weapon needs a free hand to load. I believe this happens in all the cowboy movies I have watched as well.
It just seems really odd to be able to load a pistol without a free hand.
So clarification would be good.
Well, I dunno about how easy it would be to do in real life, I prefer autoloaders to revolvers myself, but the quintessential fantasy gunslinger, Roland of Gilead, managed to reload a revolver in each hand inhumanly fast without speedloaders or moon clips or anything like that, though admittedly with metal cartridges rather than paper ones. I figure that since a 7th level character is pretty much beyond the range of normal human possibility that it should be possible, at least for gunslingers or perhaps even with a feat if it seems too powerful otherwise.
I kind of agree with Pendagast on this one. It can be done. The final wording should include something about how reloading works in terms of hands and how to reload and TWF. Perhaps we coul;d agree that this would be possible with Quickdraw?
Well the root of the issue is with the whole "free action" thing, free this free that, and the fact that wizards can rumage around in spell pouches to find what they want for free too.
Truthfully the whole economy of action is entirely broken with wizards, but since we can't go back in time and fix it, we should nit pick the free actions of melee classes.
In REAL life, there IS down time while on reloads. IVe seen it in Real combat and we would wait for machine guns to reload or change barrels before moving or rushing a position or peeking your head out to throw a grenade.
So I'd say the bullet hose issue, could well be an issue, but honestly, I have't seen anywhere it breaks things (yet) except for suspension of disbelief, and for that I just have to go back to the wizard, and say welp good enough.
I think for my character, spending THREE feats (twf, quick draw, weapon juggle is good enough thats huge when talking gunslinger)
The bow doesn't necessarily 'require' a free hand, it's two hands operating one thing, which a portion of that is ammo (the arrow).
But as far as game rules go, the bow is a two handed weapon.
So is the musket, but no one says 'hey where is your free hand' when trying to load a musket because your "free" a hand up by taking it off the weapon, why is the different with a double pistol scenario?
It really isnt.
With 'weapon juggle' (which isnt core but is made 3rd party with the paizo nod) i can as a free action just put one in my holster, and as a free action pull it back out (with quick draw) when i need it.
The two feats let me pull out and put back whatever i want whenever i want.
It is a little silly.
But then so is wizards and their spell components, it's just something everyone has chosen to ignore, so I say ignore the loading thing, especially if you have the right feats.
Maybe it's a free action to stuff the pistol in your arm pit and retrieve it?
Simple side bar.
TRuthfully tho, I think "gunslinger init" and gun slinger dodge should go, and make room for a few ranger-like feat trees as mentioned elsewhere.
So things like quick draw, improved initiative, maybe even weapon juggle (but its non core) etc etc could be offered in the same increments as the ranger gets, and that way some of the feat starving won be so bad, we need to roll in some of the ranged weapon feats, and deft shootist etc to these feat trees.
Couple that with the deeds where they are and i think you have something, otherwise see my alchemist is still better than a gunslinger at gunslinging thread, haha
On the Two weapon gun fighting subject, Stephan said in another thread that it will be a feat in UC that lets you Reload while having no free hands.
On the Two weapon gun fighting subject, Stephan said in another thread that it will be a feat in UC that lets you Reload while having no free hands.
Cool, that clears a lot of things up. Do you know where that was posted so I can see it? Link maybe?
Pendagast, It'd be like reloading a heavy crossbow. There is no free hand there, but reloading it takes both hands.
...Reloading a gun with no hands is a trick I'd like to see!:P
So what trick do male gunslingers use? Actually, forget I asked, I don't want to know.
...Reloading a gun with no hands is a trick I'd like to see!:P
Also a great explanation for the Secret Stash Deed ;)