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Goblin Squad Member. Organized Play Member. 34 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 2 Organized Play characters.


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Sara Marie wrote:
It went standard postal delivery and you should hopefully be seeing the tracking information Monday or Tuesday at the latest.

Thanks a bunch. You guys are the best!


Hi, I read the thread about the August subscriptions, but I'm worried that my copy of Ultimate Equipment ran into some trouble.

On August 6, I received my notification of shipping email with a UPSMI tracking number. The tracking number still shows as info unavailable. The order status link to the Paizo website shows the order was shipped via USPS Priority Mail. Is there any way to confirm the status of my order? Thanks.


AvalonXQ wrote:
Lewdburrito wrote:
I see now that there will not be one, and it makes me sad. I understand that it is 100% legal. However, it leaves no mechanical reason to use any other method of TWF.

That's absolutely incorrect.

The mechanically optimal ways of using TWF involve:
a) weapon finesse
b) double weapons
c) two weapons that can share the same feats
Again, if your concern is balance, TWF with a 2H and a 0H weapon is not a problem, because it's inferior to other TWF builds as well as being inferior to straight two-handed builds. Nothing to worry about or houserule.

I might be placing too much emphasis on the greater STR bonus, but it seems like the the higher weapon damage and the extra .5 STR bonus makes this a superior TWF build. A rogue w/ two shortswords (kukris, whatever) might get more damage out of that combo, but I see no reason why a fighter w/ a decent STR score would pick any other method.

I'll put some basic builds together when I get home, I'm not convinced until I see some numbers.


I have been watching this thread closely, and I was hoping that someone would have a RAW counter for using an off-hand equivalent attack while wielding a two-handed weapon.

I see now that there will not be one, and it makes me sad. I understand that it is 100% legal. However, it leaves no mechanical reason to use any other method of TWF. The fact that you can get the 2x total Str bonus (or 2.5x w/ double slice) is what I dislike.

I know that TWF is in no way optimal, no matter how you go about it. I don't like that now 2H weapons are the king of ALL melee fighting styles.

Looks like it's time for a new house rule.


Wiggz wrote:
Finarin Panjoro wrote:

I have two players in a 15th level pathfinder campaign and I've come upon a bit of a problem.

One is a TWF ranger, the other a great sword wielding paladin with the vital strike feat chain.

Here's the problem. Vital strike has dramatically increased movement during battle across the board. This has resulted in it being very difficult for the TWF fighter to achieve a full attack action and thus gain the benefit of multiple attacks.

I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion on how to balance this a bit.

I've considered allowing TWF as a standard action (the two highest BAB attacks only) and then awarding a free two weapon rend when used in this fashion. Then he could move and make a significant major attack each round while maintaining his character concept.

Perhaps this should be a feat like Vital Strike (perhaps called Double Strike).

Any thoughts?

I think this is a very appropriate fix for what's probably a fairly common issue.

A Feat called Double Strike which is worded similarly to Vital Strike wherein a single off-hand attack could be added to the regular main hand attack granted by a standard action. Its only pre-req would be the TWF feat and it would be subject to the same limitations as Vital Strike (i.e. can't be used with charge or Spring Attack). I would reconsider allowing Two-Weapon Rend to apply under these circumstances, as the two-weapon fighter is getting a second chance at a critical hit already.

I'll probably immediately begin adopting this option in My campaign. Good call.

Another thing to consider is that rogues (and any other class with sneak attack) would also get to apply that damage with every hit.


Paizo's CS is the bees' knees. Application sent. Totally worth a move from AL,; my lease is over soon anyway.


Just a question. If one were to be be in the running for an interview would he/she have received feedback by now, or would he/she be contacted next week when interviews start?


Mynameisjake wrote:

Well, doing so costs a feat and 2 skill points. Also, character can't use weapon or shield in other hand. And it only works on the scimitar. I'd also question whether "learning" the feat should be as easy as just choosing it, but that's really a roleplaying/fluff obstacle that might not apply to all campaigns.

I've been using it on a Magus build, and so far there haven't been any balance problems, but YMMV.

The problem as I see it is that what seems to be the vast majority of magus builds use the Dervish Dance feat. I understand mechanically that it ii usually a good option, I just wish there were a better choice. Maybe archetypes will help.


Andrew Besso wrote:

I considered the longsword. I decided to go with the rapier because of its better critical threat range.

I certainly want Combat Casting. I decided to take it later so I could have Dodge now, and have the Desperate Focus trait immediately. I assume the bonuses to concentration checks stack.
Here is the list of feats I plan:
3: Combat Casting
5: Nimble Moves (ignore 5' difficult terrain), Power Attack
7: Acrobatic Steps (ignore 20' difficult terrain)
9: Cleave
10: Bouncing Spell
11: Great Cleave

Magus Arcana:
3: Arcane Accuracy
6: Pool Strike
9: Empowered Magic
12: Maximized Magic

Looks good. And yes, the concentration bonuses do stack. The trait gives a trait bonus and the feat gives an untyped bonus.


Andrew Besso wrote:

Here is a new level 1 magus for PFS play.

Build:
General:
Race: Elf
Class-Level: Magus-1
Alignment: LN
Faction: Cheliax

Stats
STR: 14
DEX: 16
CON: 12
INT: 16
WIS: 10
CHA: 10

Feat: Dodge (+1 AC)
Traits: Armor Expert (-1 Armor check penalty), Desperate Focus (+2 concentration checks)

Spellbook:
All cantrips (Acid splash, Light, Arcane mark, Mage hand, Dancing lights, Open/close, Daze, Prestidigitation, Detect magic, Ray of frost, Flare, Ghost sound, Spark + Read magic)

Level 1: Burning hands, Mount, Color spray, Grease, Hydraulic push, Shield

Skill Ranks: (5) Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Dungeoneering), Ride, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

Armor: Studded leather
Weapons: Rapier, Shortbow

Other Equipment: Backpack, rope, grappling hook, bedroll, sunrods (2), tindertwigs (4), charcoal, candles (5)
Traveling spellbook, pen & ink, spell component pouch
Alchemist's fire, acid

Of course, I haven't yet come up with his (her?) name.

EDIT; I will post as play progresses. I have not yet had the chance to play this character.

Magi are lots of fun to play, I have a half-elf with very similar stats.

I might suggest the Combat Casting feat and also switching to a longsword since you don't have Weapon Finesse.

Other than that, looks good, should be a blast to play.


overdark wrote:
YuenglingDragon wrote:
Take a breath, please. Let's not get all flamey here.

How is it 'flamey' to be sarcastic to someone who refuses to stay with one argument?

After the examples I posted instead of adressing the topic of that thread he wants to start a different thread altogether.

And are you guys saying 'optimized' when you really mean 'one-dimensional'

A character with stats like...
STR 20, DEX 18, CON 18, INT 6, WIS 6, CHA 8.
Isn't optimized its one-sided (power gamed, munchkined, whatever).
You show me an example of a hero in liturature with stats like that. Thats not a hero, its a collection of numbers, that I will bet that when played at the table, the player comes up with all sorts of clever plans and ideas, despite their character's retard stats.

Overdark, being sarcastic with someone is a one-way ticket to flame land. It shows zero respect and only serves as an attack, not a counterpoint to his or her argument. If you wish to make counterpoints, address the issues at hand.

I would go on, but I'm pretty sure that ground has been covered by several hundred other posts and mine won't solve anything.

I don't want this discussion to turn into another flame war.

Happy thoughts.


I'm guessing the Mounted Combat feat acts as, at least, a discouragement for attacking a PC's mount. Seeing as that an immediate action Ride check can result in completely negating an attack against the mount. But having never having dealt with mounted combat I cannot speak from practice or experience, I can only surmise that this would ward off most attacks on a mount.


I think that until we a get solid explicit statement as to the function of double weapons, we are at an impasse. I am not convinced I cannot use one end in one hand, but there are other who do not agree and the rules seem to support both sides due to vagueness. Until we get an FAQ or Errata on this, I'm leaving it to the GM.


Also, it seems that James Jacobs agrees with the "usable in one hand" interpretation.

THREAD


Patryn of Elvenshae wrote:

Yeah, that applies to things like giants picking up human-sized quarterstaves.

It is not permission to wield a quarterstaff in one hand, if you are not otherwise able to do so.

Funny, it seems exactly like permission to me. I guess we need an FAQ on it then.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Patryn of Elvenshae wrote:
theveggiejerk wrote:
you can totally use spell combat as all double weapons can be used one handed.

How do you figure?

You can't wield a quarterstaff in one hand, and you can't wield a dwarven urgrosh in one hand, etc.

Below is the text on double weapons from the PRD. Emphasis mine.

PRD wrote:

Double Weapons: Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaves, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.

The character can also choose to use a double weapon two-handed, attacking with only one end of it. A creature wielding a double weapon in one hand can't use it as a double weapon—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.

You CAN wield a double weapon in one hand, you just have to choose which end you attack with.


Wow, awesome playtest. Mr. Owl seemed to be dominating the action. I think I like this style of playtest a lot more than the arenas. Arenas seem to be all about maximizing damage output while minimizing input. These scenarios allow the Gunslinger to really be a character rather than a build. Really impressed all around.

Out of curiosity how did you set this up? It seems like this would have taken a really long time to do. I'd eventually like to replicate something similar.


Update

When we last left our hero he was at 44 HP and staring down a Dire Tiger, let's see what happens to him.

CR8- Dire Tiger

Init: Steven's 18 beats the Dire Tiger's 12

Round1: Steven spends 1 grit point and uses Targeting. Steven targets the Tiger's legs uses DA and misfires.
The Dire Tiger charges and uses Pounce.
Bite: Rolls 19, misses
Claw: Rolls 33, hits dealing 11 damage. Steven is at 33 HP.
Claw: Rolls 39, hits dealing 13 damage. Steven is at 20 HP.
Rake: Rolls 24, hits dealing 16 damage. Steven is at 4 HP.
Rake: Rolls 28, hits dealing 12 damage. Steven is meat ribbons.

Post Battle Care: The Tiger needs a bath.

Thoughts: I took one look at the Dire Tiger stat block and wrote this fight off. I was kinda hoping he could hold the tiger off for as long possible though.

Final Thoughts: The Gunslinger absolutely torn to pieces in melee. Deft Shootist helps keep his damage up, but I doubt he could keep an equal level Fighter at bay with out using all his Grit and praying a whole bunch.
Oh yeah, I am taking Greased Armor in the next playtest.


Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:
'Rixx wrote:
There should probably be a feat that allows you to reload with your hands full, to make things a bit easier on "guns akimbo" 'slingers like the iconic. Perhaps only if your "free" hand holds a gun or a light weapon, but nothing heavier?
The current draft of UC has a feat that does this very thing.

Would it be acceptable to use a placeholder feat to continue testing TWF Gunslingers? As it stands without that feat a TWF Gunslinger seems to have a hard time keeping the bullets flying. I really appreciate you guys staying on top of all this stuff,it keeps things moving very smoothly and helps us get it right.


Odentin wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
...Reloading a gun with no hands is a trick I'd like to see!

Ask and ye shall receive.

:P

So what trick do male gunslingers use? Actually, forget I asked, I don't want to know.


I'm also looking forward to these playtests. I believe a lot of the Gunslingers vulnerabilities (namely Grapples) can be overcome by good party tactics. Happy testing!


Maxximilius wrote:
Quote:

Round 5:

Steven takes 3 Bleed damage and is at 6 HP. Steven takes a 5 foot step away from the Mosquito and drink a potion of CMW regaining 7 HP. Steven is now at 13 HP.
Steven readies an action to make a pistol whip attack.

To take a potion is a move action, to drink one is a standard action, and both provoke opportunity. Readying an action is a standard action.

So, you can't move with a 5 foot step, search the potion in your pocket (move action), drink it (standard action) then prepare an attack (standard action).
Overall, and despite this mistake, I like your playtests, clear and simple. :D

Hmm, you are right. Don't know why I had it in my head that it was a Move action. I guess things like this happen when there is no DM around.


Kenjishinomouri wrote:
On the Two weapon gun fighting subject, Stephan said in another thread that it will be a feat in UC that lets you Reload while having no free hands.

Cool, that clears a lot of things up. Do you know where that was posted so I can see it? Link maybe?


Lvl 7 Gunslinger Playtest, Lewdburrito's Arena of Unpleasant Squishy Inevitable Death

This playtest will be set up very similarly to YD's Arena Style playtests (random monsters of increasing CR, Potions, Reloading and Sideline Healing between rounds, etc.).
Note: There are 3 CLW and 2 CMW available for sideline healing CLW (1d8+3) and CMW (2d8+3)

Note: All gun related items (firearms, ammo, cartridges) are assumed to be crafted by the 'slinger and therefore Half-Price.

The purpose of this playtest is to have a highly mobile Gunslinger. I have added Rapid Shot to his feats because I find the Gunslinger tends to shine with more bullets in the air.
Now without further ado, meet the new Steven:

7th Level Human Gunslinger "Steven" 20 point buy

Str: 11

Dex: 22 (17 + 2 racial + 1 lvl, +2 Belt)

Con: 14

Wis: 16 (14 + 2 Headband)

Int: 10

Cha: 7

Feats:

1: Rapid Reload (Pistol)

1h: Deadly Aim

1b: Gunsmithing

3: Dodge

4: Mobility

5: Deft Shootist

7: Rapid Shot

Deeds:

Deadeye
Gunslinger's Dodge
Quick-Clear
Gunslinger Initiative
Pistol Whip
Utility Shot
Dead Shot
Targeting
Deft Shootist

Class Abilities:
Bravery +2
Gun Training (Pistol)

Equipment (23,500):
+1 Pistol (2,300)
+2 Mithril Chain Shirt (5,100)
Ring of Protection +1 (2,000)
Cloak of Resistance +1 (1,000)
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 (4,000)
Headband of Inspired Wisdom +2 (4,000)
Iuon Torch (75)
Boots of Elvenkind (2,500)
Potion of CLW x5 (250)
Potion of CMW x2 (600)
200 Paper Cartridges (1200)
200 Loads of Powdwer and Shot (220)
Gunsmith's Kit (15)
20 Flare Cartridges (200)

Combat Stats:

Init: +8

HP: 66 (10+ 14 COn + 36 lvl + 6 Favored Class) NOTE: HP per lvl determined using PFS rules (6 hP per lvl for d10 HD)

AC: 24 (10 + 6 Dex + 4 Armor + 2 Enchancement + 1 Deflection +1 Dodge)
Touch: 18
Flat-Footed: 15

Fort: 8
Ref: 12
Will: 6 [+8 vs Fear]

CMB: +7
CMD: 23

Grit: 3

Acrobatics: +21 (7 ranks + 3 Class Skill + 6 Dex +5 Elf Boots)

Escape Artist: +13 (7 ranks + 6 Dex)

Attacks (NOTE: Iterative Attacks made possible by paper cartridges and Rapid Reload, Free action to reload each barrel)

Pistol +15 (7 BAB + 6 Dex + 1 Enhancement + 1 PBS) | 1d8+8 (6 Gun Training + 1 Enchancement +1 PBS)

Deadly Aim +13 (7 BAB + 6 Dex + 1 Enhancement + 1 PBS -2 DA) | 1d8+12 (6 Gun Training + 1 Enchancement +1 PBS +4 DA)

Full Attack w/Rapid Shot +11/+11/+6 (7 BAB + 6 Dex + 1 Enhancement + 1 PBS - 2RS -2 DA) | 1d8+12 (6 Gun Training + 1 Enchancement +1 PBS +4 DA)

TO THE ARENA!!!!

--------------------------------
Arena is a 45 ft cube, Combatants begin on the ground adjacent to one wall with equal distance to the two walls on their sides. Their opponents begin adjacent to the opposite wall directly across of them.

CR3- Pegasus

Init: Steven's 25 beats Pegasus' 6

Round 1:
Steven takes a 5 foot step towards the Pegasus. Steven makes a Full Attack using Rapid Shot at the Pegasus, the Pegasus is 30 feet away, attacj will be resolbed against normal AC of 14.
First Attack: Misfires.
Steven elects to not take other attacks to use Quick Clear and spends one Grit point to do so as a move action.
Pegasus charges Steven. Pegasus rolls 23 for it's bite which misses.

Round 2:
Steven makes a Full Attack using RS and DA. Deft shootist allows him to avoid AoOs. Attacks Touch AC.
First Attack: Rolls 20 which hits. Deals 16 damage. Pegasus at 18 HP. Reloads.
Second Attack: Rolls 16 which hits. Deals 17 damage. Pegasus at 1 HP. Reloads.
Third Attack: Rolls 16 which hits. Deals 17 damage. Pegasus dies. Steven regains 1 grit point. Reloads.

Post Battle: No care required.

Thoughts: Pegasus is a chump.

--------------------------------

CR4- Otyugh

Init: Steven's 10 beats Otyugh's 7

Round 1:
Steven uses 1 Grit point to activate Dead Eye. Steven makes an Attack using DA, rolling a 20 which hits and deals 14 damage. Otyugh at 21 HP. Steven moves 20 ft left and reloads.
Otyugh charges and uses Bite at 10ft, rolling an 18, which misses.

Round 2:
Steven tumbles 10 feet away from Otyugh and rolls a 41 acrobatics check, which passes. Steven makes an attack using Deadly Aim, rolling a 26 which hits and deals 15 damage. Otyugh at 6 HP. Reloads.
Otyugh makes a 5 foot step and makes two tentacle attacks.
First Attack: Rolls a 6, miss.
Second Attack: Rolls an 11, miss.

Round 3:
Steven makes a 5 foot step away from the Otyugh. Steven makes a Full Attack using RS and DA.
First Attack: rolls 19, hits, deals 16 damage. Otyugh dies, Steven regains 1 grit point. Steven reloads a Flare Cartridge.

Post Battle: No care required

Thoughts: Attack bonuses way too low to hit AC 24. Touch AC 9 was nice and juicy.

--------------------------------

CR5- Manticore

Init: Steven's 25 beats Manticore's 16

Round 1:
Steven attacks and uses DA, rolling a 30 which hits and deals 6 damage, blinding the Manticore. Steven moves diagonally 30 ft forward and right. Reloads. Manticore at 51 HP.
The Manticore moves 15 feet forward on it's turn.

Round 2:
Steven makes a Full Attack using DA and RS.
First Attack: Rolls an 18, hits, deals 17 damage. Reloads. Manticore at 34 HP.
Second Attack: Rolls a 25, hits, deals 13 damage. Reloads. Manticore at 21 HP.
Third Attack: Rolls a 21, hits, deals 19 damage. Reloads. Manticore at 2 HP.
Manticore uses Spikes attack.
Spike 1: Rolls 10, misses
Spike 2: Rolls 23, misses
Spike 3: Rolls 15, misses
Spike 4: Rolls 1 on die, auto miss
Manticore moves adjacent to Steven.

Round 3:
Steven uses 1 Grit Point to make a Dead Shot with DA. Rolls a 17 and an 18, dealing 19 damage. Manticore dies and Steven gains 1 grit point. Reloads.

Post Battle: No care required

Thoughts: High AC still key. I like Deft Shootist a lot, too.

--------------------------------

CR6- Giant Mosquito

Init: Steven's 23 beats Mosquito's 15.

Round 1:
Steven uses 1 grit point to make a Dead Shot using DA. Rolls a 23 and 24, dealing 23 damage. Reloads. Mosquito at 37 HP.
Mosquito flies to Steven and makes a Bite Attack rolling 29, which hits dealing 9 damage. Steven passes his fort save with a 25. The Mosquito attempts a grapple rolling a 26 which passes and deals 2 con damage. Steven at 59 max HP.

Round 2:
Steven takes 6 Bleed damage and is at 53 HP. Steven makes an Escape Artist check to leave the Grapple rolling a 24 which fails.
The Mosquito tries to maintain the Grapple rolling a 23 which succeeds. It deals 13 damage. Steven is at 40 HP. Steven takes 2 Con damage. He is now at 33 HP with a Max of 52.

Round 3:
Steven takes 5 Bleed damage and is at 28 HP. Steven makes an Escape Artist check to leave the Grapple rolling a 26 which fails.
The Mosquito tries to maintain the Grapple rolling a 36 which succeeds. Steven takes 7 damage and 1 con damage. Steven is now at 14 HP and 45 Max HP.

Round 4:
Steven takes 5 Bleed damage and is at 9 HP. Steven makes an Escape Artist check to leave the Grapple rolling a 15 which fails.
The Mosquito tries to maintain the Grapple rolling a 21 which fails!

Round 5:
Steven takes 3 Bleed damage and is at 6 HP. Steven takes a 5 foot step away from the Mosquito and drink a potion of CMW regaining 7 HP. Steven is now at 13 HP.
Steven readies an action to make a pistol whip attack.
Mosquito 5 foot steps and makes a Bite attack. Steven spends 1 Grit point and uses Pistol Whip, rolling an 11 which misses.
The Mosquito rolls a 13 which misses.

Round 6:
Steven makes a Full Attack using DA and RS.
First Attack: Rolls a 17, hits and deals 16 damage. Mosquito is at 21 HP. Reloads.
Second Attack: Rolls a 28, hits and deals 17 damage. Mosquito is at 4 HP. Reloads.
Third Attack: Rolls a 21, hits and deals 19 damage. Mosquito dies, Steven regains 1 grit point. Reloads a Flare Cartridge.

Post Battle: Both CMW and one CLW brings Steven back to 45 HP.

Thoughts: Mosquitos are terrible terrible things. I hate them. This again proves that even with Escape Artist ranks the GUnslinger has very difficult time with Grapples.
He also no way of stopping the Mosquito from attacking him on Round 2 and once grappled, he can not use any tricks to escape. I am considering adding the Agile Maneuvers feat to the Arena build.

--------------------------------

CR7- Bullette

Init: Steven's 26 beats the Bullette's 14.

Round 1:
Steven moves forward 20 feet and fires his Flare Cartridge using DA. He rolls a 24 which hits and deals 8 damage and Blinds the Bullette and Dazzles Steven. Steven reloads. Bullete is at 76 HP.
Bullete uses a Full Attack.
Bite: Rolls 25, but fails miss chance
Claw: Rolls 18, misses
Claw: Rolls 22, misses

Round 2:
Steven uses a Full Attack action using DA and RS.
First Attack: Rolls 13, hits and deals 14 damage, Bullete is at 62 HP. Reloads.
Second Attack: Rolls 24, hits and deals 16 damage, Bullete is at 46 HP. Reloads Flare Cartridge.
Third Attack: Rolls 20, hits and deals 8 damage and Blinds Bullete and Dazzles Steven. Reloads. Bullete is at 38 HP.
Bullete uses Full Attack.
Bite: Rolls 19, misses
Claw: Rolls 23, misses
Claw: Rolls 28, hits and deals 8 damage. Steven is at 37 HP.

Round 3:
Steven uses a Full Attack action using DA and RS.
First Attack: Rolls 26, hits and deals 13 damage. Reloads. Bullette is at 25 HP.
Second Attack: Misfires. Reloads.
Third Attack: Rolls 10, hits and deals 14 damage. Bullette is at 11 HP.
Bullette uses Full Attack
Bite: Rolls 22, misses
Claw: Rolls 24, hits and deals 8 damage. Steven is at 29 HP.
Claw: Rolls 21, misses

Round 4:
Steven uses 1 grit point to use Dead Shot using DA, rolls a 30 and an 11, dealing 18 damage. Bullette dies and Steven regains 1 grit point. Reloads.

Post Battle Care: Last two CLW for 15 HP. Steven is at 44 HP.

Thoughts: The Bullette's special leap meant it was able to keep Steven to a close quarters fight. Gunslingers excel here as do Bullettes but Flare cartridges some lucky roles and high AC saved his bacon.

--------------------------------

UP NEXT! A Dire Tiger. I expect that will be a short update.


Ravingdork wrote:

Steven is wielding a pair of pistols, one in each hand, no?

Then how the heck is he reloading them? Does he have a third hand hidden somewhere? Should it not take two hands to reload one pistol? Reloading a gun with no hands is a trick I'd like to see!

I see nothing in the rules saying you need a free hand to load a firearm. Besides, there could be all kinds of tricks to reload faster. Or the firearms could be breach loaders, there are all sorts of possibilities to fit the rules. RAW says it's legit.

Though you are right seeing someone reloading even one of those pistols that fast would be a sight to see, much less two. Maybe if we were Gunslingers we would know their secrets :)

nicklas Læssøe wrote:


love the fight,
but how is it that steven gets to reload his pistol as a free action? is he really burning through his paper catridges like a madman? couse it seems to me the gunslinger can either choose to be not effective, and then relatively cheap to play, or effective and then burn through gold like crazy. spending 6 g per shot, and misfiring in a 1 and 2 is kinda a lot.

Yes he is burning through paper cartridges like a madman. Cost vs. effectiveness seems to be a bit of the nature of using fancy new technology in a medieval tech level world. Though at lvl 7 the cost of paper cartridges seems to be fairly irrelevant seeing as most monsters go down in about 4 or 5 shots. But it is still more than an arrow.


Pendagast wrote:
Deft shootist would be a wat better feat to take at 7th level than imp TWF

Probably right, I might do a repeat with a slightly different build.

I'm torn between trying a higher level or repeating this one.


Glutton wrote:

Steven takes his 3rd shot and rolls an 11 and misses. Steven reloads. Steven takes his final shot and rolls a 14 and misses. Steven reloads.

you are missing flat footed touch ac in the first round on the grizzly?

Grizzly is 35 ft away. So it would be resolved against his normal AC.


YuenglingDragon wrote:
Also, props for naming him Steven. Brought a smile to my face, for sure.

I don't think I can ever dissociate this class from the Dark Tower. Not that I have a problem with that, of course. :)


Arena Time!

Arena is a 45 ft cube, Combatants begin on the ground adjacent to one wall with equal distance to the two walls on their sides. Their opponents begin adjacent to the opposite wall directly across of them.

CR3 - Water Mephit

Init: Mephit's 21 beats Steven's 14

Round 1:
Mephit uses Acid Arrow, rolls a 17 and it hits Steven for 7 damage; Mephit flies upwards 40 feet.
Steven moves forward 30 feet; fires one shot with DA and rolls a 25 and hits the mephit for 16 damage; Steven reloads.

Round 2:
Mephit descends 30 feet and uses Acid Breath, dealing 3 damage, Steven passes his save and takes 1 damage.
Steven takes 3 damage from Acid Arrow, Steven uses full attack action. First attack threats for critical and confirms! Mephit takes 65 damage and dies. Steven reloads.
Acid Arrow does additional 3 damage next round.

Post Fight: Steven uses sideline CMW and is healed for 17, so is back to full 66.

Thoughts: The Mephit was never really a threat, but did manage to take some hp off. The crit damage with Deadly Aim and Gun Training on a x4 is silly but satisfying.

--------------------------------
CR4 - Grizzly Bear

Init: Steven's 12 beats Grizzly's 9

Round 1:
Steven uses a full attack. First shot rolls a 27 and hits the bear for 15 damage. Steven reloads. Steven takes his second shot and rolls a 27 again, dealing 11 damage. Steven reloads.
Steven takes his 3rd shot and rolls an 11 and misses. Steven reloads. Steven takes his final shot and rolls a 14 and misses. Steven reloads.
The grizzly charges Steven and rolls a 28 with a claw dealing 6 damage. The grizzly attempts to grapple Steven and rolls a 29 succeeding.

Round 2:
Steven attempts to escape the Grapple rolling a 16 which fails.
Grizzly rolls to maintain Grapple and rolls a 36. The bear damages Steven for 7 damage.

Round 3:
Steven attempts to escape the Grapple rolling a 13 which fails.
Grizzly rolls to maintain Grapple and rolls a 32. The bear damages Steven for 6 damage.

Round 4: Steven attempts to escape the Grapple rolling a 22 which succeeds! Steven uses Acrobatics to tumble 15 feet away from the Grizzly Bear and rolls a 23 which suceeds.
Grizzly charges Steven and rolls a 13 which misses.

Round 5: Steven takes a 5 foot step away from the Grizzly. Steven uses a Full Attack ans uses DA. Steven rolls a 12 and hits for 18 damage. The Grizzly dies. Steven reloads.

Post Fight: Steven uses on potion of CMW and heals 13 damage and uses one sideline CLW and heals 5. Steven is at 65 HP.

Thoughts: Wow, the gunslinger is vulnerable to grapples. His CMB to escape is pretty awful and there isn't much he can do to damage in a grapple.
Steven probably should have used Targeting to knock the bear prone on Round 1 and then used a full attack when he was in Touch and PBS range.

--------------------------------
CR5 - Ice Golem

Init: Steven's 9 beats the Golem's 3

Round 1:
Steven spends one Grit point to use Targeting. Steven targets the golem's legs and rolls a 22 which hits. Steven deals 10 above the golem's DR and the golem falls prone. Steven reloads with a Flare Cartridge.
The Golem stands up and moves 30 ft. toward Steven, it is now 15 ft. away.

Round 2:
Steven uses a Full Attack and uses DA. Steven shoots his flare cartridge at the golem and rolls a 19 which hits for 3 damage above DR. The golem is blinded and Steven is Dazzled. Steven reloads.
Steven rolls a 26 which hits and deals 13 above DR. Steven reloads. Steven rolls a 15 which hits and deals 9 over DR. Steven reloads a Flare Cartridge.
Steven rolls a 22 which hits and deals 9 damage over DR. Steven reloads.
Ice Golem moves forward and attacks. The golem rolls a 28 but fails his miss chance.

Round 3: Steven uses a 5 foot step. Steven makes a Full Attack using DA. Steven rolls a misfire. Steven fires his Flare Cartridge and rolls a misfire. Steven fires and rolls a 14 and deals 9 above DR and destroys the Ice Golem, regaining one grit point.

Post Fight: Steven uses Quick Clear to repair his guns with two Standard Actions.

Thoughts: The misfires really had me worried about explosions or getting smashed by the golem. I'm going to try and work in Dead Shot into the next round.

--------------------------------
CR6 - Young White Dragon

Init: Steven's 14 beats the Dragon's 11

Round 1:
Steven makes a 5 foot step towards the dragon, he is now 40 ft away. Steven spends 1 grit point on Deadeye and 1 point on Dead Shot. Steven uses DA and rolls a 15 and a 12 which both hit and deal 25 damage. Steven reloads a Flare Cartridge.
The Dragon moves forward 30 ft. It uses it's Breath Weapon dealing 26 damage, Steven fails and takes full.

Round 2:
Steven tumbles back 5 and right 10 ft rolls a 24 and passes. Steven shoots the Flare Cartridge rolling a 33 and hitting for 6 damage and blinding the Dragon. Steven reloads.
The Dragon moves adjacent to Steven. It uses it's Bite and rolls a 31 and confirms the critical but fails his miss chance. (Whew)

Round 3:
Steven makes a 5 foot step away from the Dragon. He uses Full Attack and Deadly Aim. The Dragon's AoO Bite rolls a 21 and misses. Steven rolls a 25 and hits dealing 20 damage. Steven reloads.
Steven rolls a 15 and hits dealing 13 damage. Steven reloads. Steven rolls a 13 and hits dealing 13 damage and killing the Dragon, Steven regains one grit point. Steven reloads.

Post Fight: Steven uses his last sidelines CMW recovering 13 HP. He uses his last two sidelines CLW and regains 13 HP. Steven is now at 65 HP.

Thoughts: Dragons are scary, the Gunslinger did well for himself though, the touch AC really saved his butt.

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CR7- Elephant

Init: Steven's 15 beats the Elephant's 11

Round 1:
Steven takes a 5 foot step towards the Elephant. Steven spends 1 grit point to use Targeting. Steven targets the Elephants legs and rolls a 29 dealing 12 damage and knocking the Elephant prone. Steven reloads.
The Elephant stands up and moves adjacent to Steven.

Round 2:
Steven tumbles away from the Elephant rolling a 25 and failing. The Elephant's Gore AoO rolls a 29 and hits for 17 damage. Steven shoots using DA and rolls a 20 dealing 18 damage.
The Elephant tramples Steven dealing 23 damage but Steven saves with a 27 and take 11 damage.

Round 3:
Steven tumbles away from the elephant rolling a 40 and passing. Steven shoots using DA and rolls a 19 which hits and deals 15 damage. Steven reloads.
The Elephant tramples Steven dealing 29 damage and Steven fails his save with 15 and takes full.

Round 4:
In a last ditch effort, Steven makes a Full Attack. The Elephant's Gore AoO rolls a 24 and hits dealing 19 damage and killing Steven.

Game Over, Man.

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Overall Thoughts: The Gunslingers special shots are almost exclusively full round actions which makes moving around the battlefield very difficult. Creatures specialized in melee eat the Gunslinger for breakfast. Also, trample is broken as all hell. I might try this again tomorrow, but my brain is fried right now.


Lvl 7 Gunslinger Playtest, Lewdburrito's Arena of Unpleasant Squishy Inevitable Death

This playtest will be set up very similarly to YD's Arena Style playtests (random monsters of increasing CR, Potions, Reloading and Sideline Healing between rounds, etc.).
Note: There are 3 CLW and 2 CMW available for sideline healing CLW (1d8+3) and CMW (2d8+3)

Note: All gun related items (firearms, ammo, cartridges) are assumed to be crafted by the 'slinger and therefore Half-Price.
Further Note: One of the pistols is the pistol the gunslinger begins play with; and thus is 500gp cheaper

The purpose of this particular playtest is to run a TWF gunslinger and to test out the 7th level deeds. Now, to present our Gunslinger:

7th Level Human Gunslinger "Steven" 20 point buy

Str: 11

Dex: 22 (17 + 2 racial + 1 lvl, +2 Belt)

Con: 14

Wis: 16 (14 + 2 Headband)

Int: 10

Cha: 7

Feats:

1: Rapid Reload (Pistol)

1h: Deadly Aim

1b: Gunsmithing

3: TWF

4b: Quick Draw

5: Point Blank Shot

7: Imp TWF

Deeds:

Deadeye
Gunslinger's Dodge
Quick-Clear
Gunslinger Initiative
Pistol Whip
Utility Shot
Dead Shot
Targeting

Class Abilities:
Bravery +2
Gun Training (Pistol)

Equipment (23,500):
+1 Pistol (2,300)
+1 Pistol (2,800)
+1 Mithril Chain Shirt (2,100)
Ring of Protection +1 (2,000)
Cloak of Resistance +1 (1,000)
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +2 (4,000)
Headband of Inspired Wisdom +2 (4,000)
Iuon Torch (75)
Boots of Elvenkind (2,500)
Potion of CLW x5 (250)
Potion of CMW x2 (600)
100 Paper Cartridges (600)
100 Loads of Powdwer and Shot (110)
Gunsmith's Kit (15)
5 Flare Cartridges (50)
Mwk Dagger (302)

NOTE: I have no idea what to do with the extra 798gp

Combat Stats:

Init: +8

HP: 66 (10+ 14 COn + 36 lvl + 6 Favored Class) NOTE: HP per lvl determined using PFS rules (6 hP per lvl for d10 HD)

AC: 22 (10 + 6 Dex + 4 Armor + 1 Enchancement + 1 Deflection)
Touch: 17
Flat-Footed: 15

Fort: 8
Ref: 12
Will: 6 [+8 vs Fear]

CMB: +7
CMD: 23

Grit: 3

Acrobatics: +21 (7 ranks + 3 Class Skill + 6 Dex +5 Elf Boots)

Attacks (NOTE: Iterative Attacks and TWF made possible by paper cartridges and Rapid Reload, Free action to reload each barrel)

Pistol +15/+10 (7 BAB + 6 Dex + 1 Enhancement + 1 PBS) | 1d8+8 (6 Gun Training + 1 Enchancement +1 PBS)

TWF Pistols +11/+6 per shot (7 BAB + 6 Dex + 1 Enhancement + 1 PBS - 4 TWF) | 1d8+8 per shot)

TWF DA Pistols +9/ +4 per shot (7 BAB + 6 Dex + 1 Enhancement + 1 PBS - 4 TWF -2 DA) | 1d8+12 per shot

That's it for now folks. I have to make some monster tables and roll some dice, but my brain feels like pudding from all the numbers I just ran. See you folks in a few hours with some results.


Did some more reading; Golarion (and therefore PFS) uses "Emerging Firearms"

I still want to know about crafting though :)


Jadeite wrote:

What's the point of giving the gunslinger a broken gun if he can fix in in about an hour? Of give it to a spellcaster to fix it.

And what's stopping the gunslinger to produce black powder at 1/10 cost to sell them for 1/2 cost?

The gun is only broken if ANOTHER creature uses it. The gunslinger uses it like a normal gun. Below is straight from the pdf.

Quote:
Her starting weapon is battered, and only sheknows how to use it properly. All other creatures treat her gun as if it had the broken condition. If it already has the broken condition, it does not work at all for others.


First off, I am digging the new Gunslinger, but some things are a little vague.

I want to start playing one for PFS but there are some grey areas that need clearing up.

One, there are no other crafting feats, skills, or abilities allowed as of yet in PFS, is the Gunslinger's Gunsmithing ability an exception? If not, it seems that ammunition is quickly going to become very costly for the gunslinger.

Two, what are the availability and prices of firearms in PFS? The "No Guns" option seems right out. I would naturally assume "Emerging Guns" but since it isn't specified I would like some clarification.

Lastly, I cannot wait to play the new gunslinger, it seems like a lot of fun.


Phasics wrote:

Not that its out yet

but personally I was really hoping to see something like a the ole 3.5 warshaper or a more fighterish wildshaper.

Basically d10, full BAB , and can alter form into whatever to bring the pain in a variety of ways.

Anyone else hoping for a class that probably won't be in the Ultimate Combat book ?

If I am not mistaken, you can do this with the Shapeshifter Ranger Archetype from the APG.