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No... he's still restricted to x3 movement. But it's x3 on a base of 30 instead of 20.
That's what I thought, too.
But the way the text reads under Armor Training states that the fighter may move at his normal speed. But then if you look into the Armor table, and even under Movement in Combat in the Combat chapter it states that you can only run x3 in heavy armor.
Is the "normal speed" for heavy armor for ALL movement or does the running clause still apply as found in the Table 6-6 and Movement in Combat?
I can see it either way, but I'm trying to clear up an argument on semantics I guess.
Since the Armor Training 2 makes the speed reduction go away, thus snubbing that movement mechanic of heavy armor, why then wouldn't it make the other mechanic of heavy armor pertaining to movement go away?
I too think that it can be read both ways.
So i am flagging this post for FAQ.
Since "running" is always defined as a multiple of your movement, I find it hard to read it another way than Corzat [on edit: sorry, LazarX of course] stated. Armor training changes your movement (which I interpret as being a technical term, which seems natural) and says nothing about running at all.
So at lvl. 6: 20ft move, 60ft running.
At lvl. 7: 30ft. move, 90ft. running.
Seems clear enough.
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I agree that running is a multiple of your speed and your example above is how one can find it delineated in the book.
I guess I'm trying to find out if "in the spirit" of being able to move more naturally, "maneuverable" is the phrase from the class feature, and not suffer any reduction in movement for wearing Heavy Armor, why then would you suffer a reduction of multiplier in movement for running in Heavy Armor.
On the one hand it is being presented as being no different than going without any armor, ie the non-reduction in speed/movement. You move the same squares wearing Heavy Armor as you would wearing your Birthday Suit.
But then, when you try to run, it is presented as still hampering you enough that you can no longer move as far in the same amount of time. This implies that the armor has in fact affected your "normal speed".
Thus the necessity for clarification.
I guess I'm trying to find out if "in the spirit" of being able to move more naturally, "maneuverable" is the phrase from the class feature, and not suffer any reduction in movement for wearing Heavy Armor, why then would you suffer a reduction of multiplier in movement for running in Heavy Armor.
On the one hand it is being presented as being no different than going without any armor, ie the non-reduction in speed/movement. You move the same squares wearing Heavy Armor as you would wearing your Birthday Suit.
But then, when you try to run, it is presented as still hampering you enough that you can no longer move as far in the same amount of time. This implies that the armor has in fact affected your "normal speed".
Thus the necessity for clarification.
Well, it just says "more maneuverable" not "no different than going without any armor". So when you really want to sprint and therefore lift your legs higher etc. the armor is still somewhat in the way.
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It should be noted that you're still better off with armor training, in fact if you use my interpretation... you're moving faster than 4x of the "old" speed. as even in the new math 90 is greater than 60, and even grater than 80 which is 4x20. So the end result is pretty much halfway between the old limit and the speed limit for medium armor which would be 120.
No arguments there, either way it works out you are still better off than normal.
The Armor Training, though, breaks away from the norm... how much does it break away from the normal properties of Heavy Armor?
If Armor Training 2 allows me to move 30' while wearing Heavy Armor in 6 seconds as well as accomplish a standard action in that 6 seconds, just as any other "normal" person who doesn't have any armor on or light armor, why then wouldn't I be able to move as far as the normal person who isn't wearing armor if all I did was move?
Well, it just says "more maneuverable" not "no different than going without any armor". So when you really want to sprint and therefore lift your legs higher etc. the armor is still somewhat in the way.
If the armor is "still somewhat in the way" then wouldn't it still be suffering in a regular move action?
What I'm trying to establish is how far does the Armor Training 2 "normal speed" extend?
I'll try to explain my thought process here...
Armor Training 1 throws out the encumberance of the Medium Armor allowing you to move at your "normal speed" thus giving you a movement of 30'/120'. This makes me assume that through training and experience a Fighter attaining this level of expertise with his armor has become more comfortable and used to his equipment and therefore isn't affected by the encumberance of the armor as a person donning the armor for the first time would be. Heavy Armor is still cumbersome and unweildy to this fighter and the base speed and running multiplier reflect this.
Armor Training 2 does the same for Heavy Armor as Armor Training 1 did for Medium Armor. Through training and experience the Fighter now feels as comfortable in Heavy Armor as without any armor and the armor doesn't hamper his movement and can move at his "normal speed". Base of 30' in Heavy Armor? No problem! Running in Heavy Armor? No problem...maybe?
I equate this to an athlete, say a marathon runner, training for the Big Race. When the runner first started training, sure that first mile hurt. Through training, though, the first mile got easier so you add another mile to make it hurt again. The runner repeats this cycle of training until the runner is then able to run 26 miles. Or as another example, you or I may go out and play football on the weekends. We don't play football professionally and if we were to step out onto the NFL playing field we would be demolished by those players that train for their sport. The Fighter begins his career being encumbered by his armor, but through training and experience is no longer encumbered by the Armor.
So the question still remains, does Armor Training 2 go so far as to allow Heavy Armor to run at x4 or does it stop before that and only allow for the base speed to change? It's a matter of "to what degree" does "normal speed" mean.
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Personally, I read "can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor" to mean exactly that. No speed penalties for wearing heavy armor. Fighters still feel slow, thanks to barbarians and monk's speed bonuses anyway.
Does it really hurt anything to give him the x4? I mean- really.. this isn't some game breaking reading of the rules. Its something nearly everyone else already gets. Its a special ability of the pure fighter to get to run normal speeds in armor.. Why argue? Why not give him the benefit of the doubt, knock his running-in-armor to x4 and be done with it?
I agree it can be read either way but this isn't some cheesy munchkin "tryin to slip through the cracks" thing. Its.. err, ok you are still the slowest guy in the party- you are just only a lil slower instead of alot slower.
-S
Does it really hurt anything to give him the x4?
Nope. I think the interpretation expressed on this thread is correct per RAW, but I'd have absolutely no problem giving it to a player who asks for it.