My players like to have adventuring parties intimately tied to an adventure path's plotline. In Rise of the Runelords they played goblins. In Curse of the Crimson Throne they played members of the Korvosan aristocracy. In Second Darkness they played agents of the Winter Council. In Legacy of Fire they played undead victims of an ancient wish that Jhavul had granted to one of their enemies. I'm looking for an equivalent option here.
I'm thinking that the serpentfolk are being gathered in the rebuilt section of Ilmurea, and any non-degenerates among them are being given heavy responsibilities. What if some of these people didn't want their ancient god back? What if they were happy with the way that their lives had been?
My theory is that the PCs would be serpentfolk who just wanted to live their lives without being forces to go to war against the humans. They are willing to fight to preserve their way of life, even if they're not willing to fight to restore the way that their people lived ten thousand years ago.
What do you think?
Must admit that after reading through the Serpentfolk ecology I'd had a thought about having a campaign in which the PCs are Serpentfolk that have infiltrated a city. Sort of an undercover nest in a human city and having them perform assassinations, thefts, underworld connections, etc.
For what you're looking for an idea might be that theres a new spiritual movement quietly spreading across the serpentfolk communities. Some of them have spent too much time infilitrating the civilisations of other races and begun to pick up their views on life. So a philosphy has started to take shape and its one of integration with the other races. Serpentfolk who have joined the movement don't see a future raising their fallen god. Perhaps they'll see any chance to make the fallen gods death absolute as a way to convince others of the need for change.
Naturally the other serpentfolk see this as a weakness and hunt down the traitors - seeking to eradicate the cancer before it spreads. So these rebel serpentfolk move quietly and expand slowly. Infilitrating non-serpentfolk and serpentfolk communities alike.
I've only just started DMing this AP and I've only read the first book so I don't know the full ins and outs of the AP as a whole. Hope it helps or at least gives you a few ideas.
Thanks, BQ! I appreciate the insight!
So in your opinion it won't work to have serpentfolk who just want to live the life they've always lived? I need to invent a new movement striving for as radical a change as the bad guys are, but just in the opposite direction?
Sloth doesn't really strike me as a good motivating force. Besides which, serpentfolk are either very, very intelligent and magically gifted (you try running games where all of the PCs have access to mirror image and blur) or very, very stupid (Int 4 for degenerates).
If you wanted to run a "from the other side" AP for Serpent's Skull, I'd imagine that the natives of Saventh-Yhi might make a better option. Inter-city factions, dealing with the interlopers looking to plunder their city, finding that the legends are true and great evil is stirring beneath them, that sort of thing.
Thanks for the response!
Sloth doesn't really strike me as a good motivating force. Besides which, serpentfolk are either very, very intelligent and magically gifted (you try running games where all of the PCs have access to mirror image and blur) or very, very stupid (Int 4 for degenerates).
I expressed myself poorly. I agree completely that sloth is a bad motivating force. I was thinking of the way that non-degenerate serpentfolk all have a great deal of responsibility toward the war effort under the new regime, and was struck by the idea that some people would resist having those responsibilities imposed upon them (hence calling them draft-dodgers).
And sure they'll have mirror image and blur, but it will take them a while before they receive even one class level so they're going to need some tricks. Even so the first chapter would probably be pretty easy and would thus go by quite quickly, but I don't have a problem with that.
If you wanted to run a "from the other side" AP for Serpent's Skull, I'd imagine that the natives of Saventh-Yhi might make a better option. Inter-city factions, dealing with the interlopers looking to plunder their city, finding that the legends are true and great evil is stirring beneath them, that sort of thing.
Oh, I like this! I'll go reread the Saventh-Yhi stuff with this in mind. Great idea!
I think serpentfolk who want to preserve their current way of life makes a lot of sense.
Another option, though it might be (way too) complex, is to have each PC be a full-fledged member of a different faction. The first chapter would work just fine, but after that, you'd need to have reasons for them to be working together still - so perhaps the different factions are a bit more cooperative on getting to the area, given the dangerous terrain they're headed into, while still completely competitive when it comes to uncovering the secrets of Saventh-Yhi for themselves. The final part of the path should actually work fairly well, as the PCs would need to gain the cooperation of as many groups as possible by the end. But keeping them working together through the middle part might not be feasible...
Thanks, BQ! I appreciate the insight!
So in your opinion it won't work to have serpentfolk who just want to live the life they've always lived? I need to invent a new movement striving for as radical a change as the bad guys are, but just in the opposite direction?
Depends on the players in your group and how much they tend to invest themselves into the game world (RP wise). For my group the success of a campaign is determined by the level of interest the guys have in the game world. I'd be using the "undercover/infiltration" element as a hook and I could see my guys jumping on.
I think if you were to add this sort of thing in you could have the "resistance/rebel" movement very much in the background. Certainly not quiet relevant in the first book when the PCs are on the island. We're still just on the first book and I haven't read through the others so I can't really help out with planning ahead past the first book.
If I understand it right one of the books involves the factions and it could be an interesting element to add in the mix. Which of the factions would best suit the rebel movement? Interesting choice for the PCs.
I like the idea of a group of serpentfolk might not be happy about the return of Ydersius. Certainly those serpents who started worshiping other gods might work to prevent it.
Asmodeus seems the most likely to both have serpentfolk worshipers and to have sufficient motive to send them to stop Ydersius' return. Irori and Nethys also seem like they might have appealed to intelligent serpentfolk, but I have trouble imagining them caring enough about it to try and stop it. In fact, Nethys might be happy to see all that lost magic return to the world.
Another thing to consider is that snakes aren't considered automatically evil in all parts of the world. Serpentfolk from the Pathfinder versions of India, China, and Southeast Asia might be as appalled by the possibility of Ydersius' return to power as anyone else.
Few thoughts:
If you run the adventures with the idea of "rebel serpent folk" there a few ways I could see it off the top of my head. First of all, if they are rebels so to speak they probably still get the calling dreams that the beheaded god is sending out (maybe that was something someone added but if not there's your hook) and since they like the way things are they essentially go stop it. What you can do from here is let them have gotten wind of The plan to end up on the shiv, maybe just the rumor that an agent was going on this boat trip and then they spent the entire trip being suspicious of everyone but pretending to fit in too so they couldn't make any moves. Finally they find the culprit, some red herring, and then the feast happens and even they're scaly constitution didn't save them from the effects. Then they proceed as normal. Difference here is that in the final temple of book 1 they get free passes by a lot of stuff if they go true form, which is ok in the end.
As for the factions and whatnot each of them could infiltrate the factions and make them work the way the pcs want, and still be a cohesive party since they are manipulating it towards their end. Mostly the ap plays the same except some lore and history are revealed and they basically know the end game day one, which isn't always terrible.
As a side not to remove some character knowledge they can be young serpent folk who have very limited knowledge of their people due to being outcasts or whatnot, hence why they'd be "rebels". Just how id run with it if I ran it this way.
If you'd want to retain more of the APs structure, and let the PCs not necessarily have to be Serpentfolk, the PCs could be agents of the Coils of Yderseus, who have a falling out with Yazoth, or are betrayed by Yazoth, and are left to die in the wreck of the Jenivere. This way you can make minimal changes to the AP, while still adding that extra dimension - Per the AP, they are poisoned by Yazoth and rescued by the first mate, but the first mate and fellow castaways do not know their true assosiation with Yazoth. The castaways may turn on them if they found out, so it's in their interest to keep their knowledge of Yazoth's true mission on the isle a secret, but leading them directly to the temple would be a tip off, so they have to find ways to feign ingnorance while still winning the castaway's loyalty and leading them in the right direction.
This theme carries through the rest of the AP whith the PCs needing to gain the alliance of a faction, but in this case for their hidden agenda. You can throw in encoutners with other loyal Coils agents who may have to be persuaded/prvented from betraying their secret to their faction, recruited to defect to their side, or killed without breaking their cover for fear it would endanger their own cover (which would be tricky if their cover is as an important person in Eleder or in a faction!)
Good Stuff
Also using what Asphesteros said, you could make them her lackeys, so they aren't in the know and they have to retrace her steps and follow her to find the temple. So it makes sense that they don't go straight there and ally with the other survivors.
Loving this thread. I'm not running this atm, but since it came out I've been wondering how best to connect the 1st with the rest, and also how impetus could be spurred. Excellent ideas.
I'm not sure that serpentfolk are really the type to team up and take on a task together like this. They really seem to be more arrogant loners with goons to do the dirty work. (Just one purecaste serpentfolk and the rest of the PCs are degenerates? Might be fun, but a mess if the "leader" gets kilt.)
I don't have the books handy, but the BBEG on Smuggler's Shiv is a serpentfolk who is looking for intel on the location of Saventh Yhi. She's from another serpentfolk city that's completely disconnected from Ilmurea - I can't remember if she even knows it exists. So there's several levels of knowledge that the PCs might have.
For example, knowledge level 1:
The PCs are agents of one of the factions. I'd go with Sargavan government agents (though Red Mantis Assassins or Shackles freebooters could be fun). The PCs could be a mix of the colonists running the expedition and local guides brought on for extra muscle / special skills. Their interest is the same as listed in the AP, so they know about Saventh Yhi, and they're looking for it's location in the ruins on the Shiv. They don't know the location of the temple, etc, so they'd still be pretty lost. You don't need the shipwreck at all if the PCs are on task from the get go. I would drop Yarzoth entirely - seems like too much of a coincidence that they'd both be there at the same time. Ooooh - brainstorm - the information that the location of Saventh Yhi might be found on the Shiv pops up in Eleder, and Yarzoth (maybe disguised as a Zenj) finds out about it at the same time as the Sargavan govt. That way it makes sense that they're all on the same ship. Much shorter voyage, same outcome.
Let me think about other possibilities - I'll check in again later.
Meant to mention - having the PCs be a mix of colonists and natives would be an excellent role-playing opportunity.
P.S. - I've enjoyed reading your campaign posts, tbug.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone! We're doing character creation on Friday, and I've decided to go ahead with the idea that the PCs will be serpentfolk. Vyr-Azul (the high priest of Ydersius) has been giving his underlings the assignment of tracking down all known intelligent serpentfolk and conscripting them into the effort. The PCs have all received their draft notices and as we start the campaign they're in Magnimar in the house of a cantankerous old serpentfolk anarchist, meeting for the first time. (They've all met the cantankerous guy before, and came to him for information after they received the undesired draft notices.)
I'm going to skip chapter one. I think it's brilliant, but it won't work with this group. As we begin the campaign, the four iconics have just completed the mission and are on their way to Eleder. Presumably the PCs will want to get there (which I guess means I need to figure out how long that particular sea voyage will take, but I can abstract most of that away fairly easily).
The only trick is going to be connecting the PCs to a faction. The obvious thing is to just tell them about the factions and have them choose one and then work it into their character backgrounds, but I think I can come up with something more interesting than that. I'm leaning toward having Kar-Nitan (the cantankerous guy) give them a list of contacts in Sargava that's about a hundred and fifty years old (so the contacts are dead but could lead to encounters with the five NPCs).
In any case, I'm hoping we'll game for a bit then settle into Racing to Ruin. I expect that if the PCs bumble around Eleder for long enough then I'll be able to contrive some method of attaching them to one of the factions. :)
We've finished the stuff I (regretfully) wrote to replace chapter one, and the PCs have just arrived in Eleder to begin chapter two.
They're currently working for Yarzoth. They don't want to work for her, but they're sufficiently afraid of her that they're very much under her thumb.
My question: how should I handle Into the Spirit Realms (Racing to Ruin, pp. 20-21). I'm thinking that the purpose of the encounter is twofold: first, cement Nkechi's attachment to the faction chosen by the PCs; second, foreshadow the involvement of serpentfolk using either Yarzoth or her spirit (if she's dead). Since the PCs are working for her I don't think she'd involve herself, and the PCs (being serpentfolk themselves) already know of that involvement.
So should I skip the spell, or do something else with it? How have players reacted to this in other campaigns?
I'm not sure how much background you've given your PCs, but presumably they already know that Ilmurea is beneath Saventh-Yhi and the Serpentfolk movement growing there is what will threaten their way of life. Having them fight a dream serpent would be sort of pointless. What they don't know is that there are a bunch of Daemons etc in Ilmurea (and that race of undead-ish things that I can't remember the name of). They are suitably creepy enough to make up a decent dream sequence. In my game, I plan to replace the undead-ish race in Ilmurea with a small enclave of elder things that are orchestrating the intellect devourer activities and are opposing the aboleth. I won't get too far into the details (complex, and inspired by Wake of the Watcher / At the Mountains of Madness) because they don't really apply to your game, but if you are planning to add an element of surprise (shoggoth!), you might want to foreshadow whatever that is.
Also, how do you imagine that your serpentfolk PCs will be able to convince the residents of Saventh-Yhi to join them to oppose the serpentfolk menace?
Also also, why do you regret what you wrote to replace chapter 1?
I'm not sure how much background you've given your PCs, but presumably they already know that Ilmurea is beneath Saventh-Yhi and the Serpentfolk movement growing there is what will threaten their way of life.
They actually don't even know that much. They didn't pay much attention to serpentfolk politics, preferring instead to live the life of the idle rich among humans. If any of them had paid a lot of attention to what was going on then they might have had that information, but that's not really who they're playing.
Having them fight a dream serpent would be sort of pointless.
It would also contradict the adventure's narrative, since the dream serpent is sent by Yarzoth as her way of finding out what the PCs are doing. In my game, the PCs are sufficiently afraid of Yarzoth that they just do whatever she tells them to do, so she has no need to invade the dream.
What they don't know is that there are a bunch of Daemons etc in Ilmurea (and that race of undead-ish things that I can't remember the name of).
urdefhans
They are suitably creepy enough to make up a decent dream sequence. In my game, I plan to replace the undead-ish race in Ilmurea with a small enclave of elder things that are orchestrating the intellect devourer activities and are opposing the aboleth. I won't get too far into the details (complex, and inspired by Wake of the Watcher / At the Mountains of Madness) because they don't really apply to your game, but if you are planning to add an element of surprise (shoggoth!), you might want to foreshadow whatever that is.
That's a really interesting thought. As I understand it, the dream is communication between a cleric and his god. I'm not quite sure how Yarzoth managed to interfere with that, but I think it's safe to assume she'll be uninvolved. That means I can just have Gozreh tell Nkechi anything, I think. I could use the dream as scripted, then have a snake finish killing a morlock and a urdefhans in the distance and charge the PCs, or something. That might plant an enemy-of-my-enemy vibe.
Also, how do you imagine that your serpentfolk PCs will be able to convince the residents of Saventh-Yhi to join them to oppose the serpentfolk menace?
I haven't really given it a whole lot of thought yet. Care to make any predictions? :)
Also also, why do you regret what you wrote to replace chapter 1?
I regret that it was necessary, not the specifics of my replacement. I just thought that chapter one was really cool, and I wish I could have run it.
Thanks for the response!
Okay, my serpentfolk PCs are in Saventh-Yhi. A couple of them just reached level ten so I'm going to introduce Janiven and Sozothala, but the characters are pretty underpowered for their level. (Apparently five monstrous humanoid hit dice and five spellcasting levels don't equal ten spellcasting levels--who knew?)
I'm pondering whether they'll try to team up with Sozothala, and how long he'll work with them before turning on them. Any thoughts?