Just downloaded it and I'm REALLY excited! This looks like its gonna be a fun AP. Some observations I had while reading it:
-Witches aren't feared and hated in Ustalav? Ironic, but cool.
-Non-Varisians and non-humans look like they'll have trouble with prejudices throughout the campaign. I would have thought at least one other race would be accepted in Ustalav, but I suppose not. Half-orc lovers beware.
-Changeling is a race, eh? I'm intrigued.
-Looks cavaliers will face the usual large mount troubles. Expected and workable.
-Is the guy on page 7 Professor Petros Lorrimor? Definitely a worshiper of Pharasma, maybe an inquisitor.
-Inquisitors look like they're in full-force in this AP. I'd be willing to bet that there'll be an inquisitor NPC who grows hostile to the PC's.
-Magus! Thurshmoor's Sleepless Agency? Archetypes? DO WANT! Looks like magi will have lots of fun here.
-Monks get the shaft story-wise, no shock there. Oh well, Jade Regent is too far away.
-Pro tip: Rangers who don't take Undead as a favored enemy in this campaign should have their heads examined.
-Sczarni are mentioned a lot, I'm expecting a place for them in the story.
-Picture of a changeling witch on page 10? I think so.
-Campaign traits look alright, I like the Subject of Study one. Get a favored enemy without being a rogue? Sweet!
-More Harrow? Me likey. Glad they're bringing that back, I'm having a blast with it in Curse of the Crimson Throne.
Also, is that a Dullahan I see on the last page? That should be a fun fight!
As I've mentioned elsewhere, the Player's Guide has made the AP even more exciting. I'm really looking forward to having the opportunity to play this somewhere somehow.
I'm also pleased to see that the Harrow deck is getting more use, particularly since I own one. But I wish there was a little less space taken up in explaining the Harrow Point rules and a few more Campaign Traits to choose from.
It does look like the Inquisitor is going to be a great choice for the AP. I think an Oracle's looking good as well. I'm one of those unimaginative bastards who doesn't like a ton of new classes so I'm not thrilled to see Magus added to the already overpopulated list, even though it's an obviously smart move for Marketing purposes.
I'm also not that happy about the Changeling or Orc options but that's just my own pet peeves at play. It just makes me glad that this isn't an AP I'm going to be running.
I do wish there were a bigger representation of at least one race other than human in Ustalav. I get tired of how common humans are everywhere and how rare the other races are. I know it's a trope but that's exactly what makes it so wearying.
The campaign set-up with the Professor's death? Awesome. I love how creative Paizo is with their AP beginnings. I think this is my favorite thing in the Player's Guide. I'm very much looking forward to the game.
Anyone else notice the Easter Egg?
--Mr. Vrocko
... not at first blush no.
will now re-read the Player's Guide and see about noticing the Easter Egg. Hmmm
~Dean
Creative Director
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...A lot of this material seems to be recycled Ravenloft themes...
Since the vast majority of Ravenloft was itself "recycled" from the writings of the same authors we went to for inspiration for Carrion Crown and Ustalav (writers like Stoker, Poe, Lovecraft, M. R. James, Blackwood, Machen, Shelly, etc.)... I'll take that as a compliment! :)
I'm surprised how much emphasis is placed on this being an urban campaign. Reading through the class-writeups, they seem to keep hammering that home.
My thoughts before reading the PG:
- book 1 was a dungeon crawl (there's a town for RP, but none of the "adventuring" would take place there)
- book 2 was half urban / half dungeoncrawl
- book 3 was exclusively wilderness
- book 4 was mostly wilderness, with a little bit of urban, and a dungeon in there somewhere (it's Vaughn, so it has to have a dungeon)
- book 5 was exclusively urban
- book 6 was half wilderness / half dungeoncrawl
What do other people think the breakdowns are going to be? I guess a lot more urban than what I just wrote...
Anyone else notice the Easter Egg?
--Mr. Vrocko
I got yer easter eggz right here, pally!
*pelts KoV*
Now be nice and share!
Lets see what we've got here...
-Non-Varisians and non-humans look like they'll have trouble with prejudices throughout the campaign. I would have thought at least one other race would be accepted in Ustalav, but I suppose not. Half-orc lovers beware.
This is true to an extent. You're not going to be in bad shape if you're Chelish or Taldan or some such - no one's going to think you're a monster. The same can be said of Garundi, Keleshites, Tians, Vudrani, and the like, the country folk of Ustalav probably just aren't going to know what to make of such people (it'd be like someone from India showing up in a rural town in Victorian England). It's the local "barbarian" races, like Shoanti and Ulfen to an extent, but DEFINITELY Kellids that Ustalavs are going to have problems with. This is a country that's been raided and brutalized by savagery for centuries, and as such there are very real racial prejudices. Most of these are aimed at Kellids - but at least they're human - the strongest are focused on orcs and - to their minds even more grotesquely - half-orcs.
So humans of most ethnicities should be fine, but it's those Kellids and orc-blooded characters that might be in for some interesting - and, to my mind, really exciting - roleplaying opportunities.
-Is the guy on page 7 Professor Petros Lorrimor? Definitely a worshiper of Pharasma, maybe an inquisitor.
That's a priest of Pharasma. You can read all about these guys in Pathfinder #44 and, soon, Faiths of Balance. I LOVE how they look, though. :)
-Magus! Thurshmoor's Sleepless Agency? Archetypes? DO WANT! Looks like magi will have lots of fun here.
Just you wait and see. I really like the Sleepless Agency and have future plans for them. For now, there's a little bit more about them in Rule of Fear, but not much. Until I have the opportunity to say more, look up the Pinkerton Agency on Wikipedia and let your imagination run wild.
-Picture of a changeling witch on page 10? I think so.
True story.
But yeah! Glad you're liking what you're seeing. Can't wait to hear what characters your group comes up with!
Just you wait and see. I really like the Sleepless Agency and have future plans for them. For now, there's a little bit more about them in Rule of Fear, but not much. Until I have the opportunity to say more, look up the Pinkerton Agency on Wikipedia and let your imagination run wild.
Oooh, the Pinkertons! Interesting. I've used them in games I've run in the past and always enjoyed them. I'm really curious to see how using them as an inspiration might come into play.
The campaign set-up with the Professor's death? Awesome. I love how creative Paizo is with their AP beginnings. I think this is my favorite thing in the Player's Guide. I'm very much looking forward to the game.As excited as I am about this path, calling it creative is stretching it just a bit. A lot of this material seems to be recycled Ravenloft themes (though really, how can fantasy gothic horror not contain those themes, as Ravenloft itself was inspired mostly through gothic stories).
Still, Paizo's done a good job with their adventure paths to date (though I could wish for better organization within them, salient points are a bit scattered), and I have high hopes for their first foray into horror. I've been suffering from Ravenloft withdrawals, and the chance to switch up the theme and mood for my gaming group has me salivating.
To comment on the witche's general acceptance within Ustalav, I'm happy to see that parts of the supernatural are accepted while others rejected. Historically speaking, the only difference between a priest and a witch is that the priest was the guy you accepted as your spiritual leader, and the witch was the spiritual leader of someone else's religion and should be burnt at the stake.
Glad you're digging it so far! I was a HUGE Ravenloft fan back in the day - I still covet my complete collection of the 2nd ed. material and have copes of all the old Van Richten's Guides here in the office (it's really funny to delve into some of those rules now a days). You should totally check out Rule of Fear when it comes out too - I think you'll find a land that tickles your interest in gothic horror without quite so much of the "WAHOO" that some earlier RPG forays into similar material took. It's similar to how we've handled other fantasy staples in Golarion. Like how I know readers have seen "Viking Land," "Knights & Dragons Land," and "Egypt Land" in other campaigns, but how the Land of the Linnorm Kings, Talor, and Osirion are their own distinct incarnations in our campaign setting. I think you'll run into the same with Ustalav. Have you seen "Gothic Horror Land" in the past. Sure. Heck, there's whole game systems about "Gothic Horror Land." But does that mean Ustalav or an Adventure Path set therein is going to be a drag and drop collection of lost Vampire campaigns, stray Ravenloft domains, forgotten Call of Cthulhu settings, and Dark Matter, Deadlands, Kult, Chill, All Flesh Must Be Eaten, and In Nomine re-hashes?
Nope.
So that was kind of a tirade, but thanks in advance for the vote of confidence and check out the AP on the blog and in stores as it releases! It sounds like there's going to be some stuff in here that's right up your alley!
Oooh, the Pinkertons! Interesting. I've used them in games I've run in the past and always enjoyed them. I'm really curious to see how using them as an inspiration might come into play.
I know, right?! Detectives have to come from somewhere. I thought for a long time about who the "Sherlock Holmes" of Ustalav was... and decided I'd seen that about a thousand times before (Alanik Ray, anyone?). So why not do something a little more player friendly and give the PCs the chance to be the "Great Detectives." And, if at the same time you wanted to run a kind of gothic noir thing, or even have the detectives be the baddies, you've instantly got a group right up that alley.
That said, the other characters I put a lot of thought into were who is our "Van Helsing," "Dracula," and - a little weirder - "Vampire Hunter D?" The answers are already out there, for the most part, and none are direct ports of these famous characters, and some equate to multiple characters. For example, Ustalav does not have a "Dracula" port - and I think that's a good thing. In the cases of the others, for the most part, those should be the PCs, so we're not trying to steal any of the player's gusto.
That said, Carrion Crown has a whole series of stories in the Pathfinder's Journal featuring our closest non-player "Van Helsing," the former Pathfinder turned author Ailson Kindler. And she is VERY much retired.
I am still a bit sceptical how well gothic horror translates into a system where the player characters can literally warp the laws of reality themselves. :p
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Creative Director
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I'm surprised how much emphasis is placed on this being an urban campaign. Reading through the class-writeups, they seem to keep hammering that home.
My thoughts before reading the PG:
- book 1 was a dungeon crawl (there's a town for RP, but none of the "adventuring" would take place there)
- book 2 was half urban / half dungeoncrawl
- book 3 was exclusively wilderness
- book 4 was mostly wilderness, with a little bit of urban, and a dungeon in there somewhere (it's Vaughn, so it has to have a dungeon)
- book 5 was exclusively urban
- book 6 was half wilderness / half dungeoncrawlWhat do other people think the breakdowns are going to be? I guess a lot more urban than what I just wrote...
I suspect that you're underestimating the amount of urban stuff going on in book 1 and book 4. And while book 3 is indeed set in the wild... a large part of it DOES take place in a hunter's lodge where urban-type skills will be very helpful.
I am still a bit sceptical how well gothic horror translates into a system where the player characters can literally warp the laws of reality themselves. :pIf you can't wait... check out Pathfinder #2 for how we handled the inclusion of gothic horror early on.
Well, I don't own that one and even if I did, a friend of mine who wants to GM RotRL one day would frown on me doing so. :p
But I'll take your word on it. :)
@magnuskn: I've read through it and my players are almost there. Trust me, they can bring the scary.
I've yet to be disappointed by a Paizo adventure path, I was just commenting on the creative remark, as it's a variation of a fairly standard 'adventure hook'.
As a very long time player who predominately, until Paizo's APs started to come along, played in homebrew campaigns and worlds I thought the notion of bringing the entire party together to act as pallbearers was a pretty creative notion. Serpent's Skull also struck me as having a nice creative beginning to the campaign. If it turns out that partys are born out of pallbearers/ funerals on a regular basis in published Ravenloft modules, well that'd be a little disappointing. But it's still new to me so I don't care. :)
As he seems to be an iteration of Van Richten, who was so very integral to Ravenloft and Ravenloft adventures, that was the basis of my comment.
Huh, interesting. I never really thought of it like that, but I can see the Van Helsing vibe in both of these characters. Lorrimor I always pictured as more of a lecturer and antiquarian than a real monster hunter, but that's close enough. The biggest thing for me, though, is that Lorrimor isn't really a character: he's a body. And I think folks might be surprised by some of what he's really got going on once they start reading the AP and the real reason he calls out for the PCs in his will. That he knew and trusted the PCs is definitely a factor, but the PCs are not summoned to Ravengro because they and the professor were best buds.
If it turns out that partys are born out of pallbearers/ funerals on a regular basis in published Ravenloft modules, well that'd be a little disappointing. But it's still new to me so I don't care. :)
If it turns out that partys are born out of pallbearers/ funerals on a regular basis in published Ravenloft modules, well that'd be a little disappointing. But it's still new to me so I don't care. :)
I'm just assuming it to be a Call of Cthulhu homage. Like, the actual short-story, not the game or associated mythos or whatever. In that book, the plot is moved forward pretty much exclusively by a man going through his recently deceased uncle (who happened to be a professor)'s belongings, including all his newspaper clippings, archaeological notes, etc, and that eventually leads him to Cthulhu and madness. Since that story is the seminole work for the genre, I wouldn't exactly call AP#43's hook very original.
Now, unoriginal does not equate to "bad", but Prof Lorrimor needs to end up being very different from the Uncle in CoC if he wants to distinguish himself from that mold.
I am still a bit sceptical how well gothic horror translates into a system where the player characters can literally warp the laws of reality themselves. :p
You know, that's largely up to the GM. One of the things that I want to drive home right now is that Carrion Crown is NOT Vampire, Ravenloft, Call of Cthulhu, Chill, In Nomine, etc. It's Pathfinder, and is built to be 100% a Pathfinder adventure. The PCs are not being crippled, we're not increasing the CRs of encounters to make them more deadly, we're not imposing some system to mimic horror, or any tricks to make the game more deadly. In large part because this isn't the game we make. But also because I don't believe such things make a game scary to players - scary to their hit point total, maybe, but not to players.
I figure GMs and players are going to go into this campaign in one of two ways.
Option 1: They're going to head into the adventures with wands out and +4 scimitars at the ready, prepared to take on whatever challenges the adventure throws their way. And that's great. That's the game Pathfinder is, that's the heart of adventures folks have come to look for from us, and that's what we're excited to provide. You want the opportunity to be heroes, Pathfinder Adventure Path is all about giving you that, and by extension, so is the Carrion Crown Adventure Path. In this case, the horror is in the themes, with creepy settings, scary monsters, nefarious traps, new challenges like haunts, deadly mysteries, suspicious characters, vile villains, and the like. Check out past adventures we've done in this theme, like The Skinsaw Murders, The Hook Mountain Massacre, Skeletons of Scarwall, The Infernal Syndrome, and the like. Things are meant to be scary in these adventures, but never is there any question that despite the frightening nature of the encounters, that the PCs are heroes and ready to take on that horror. So, in option 1, the horror is all about theme, thematics, types of encounters, mysteries, and the stories the PCs find themselves involved in.
Option 2: The players want to be scared. This is a bit more meta, but in this case, the players want to be in on the horror of the campaign. In this option a character who sees a ghost might roleplay being frightened or be wary of heading into the haunted house, they might be dubious of tales of midnight murderers and peasant superstitions without doing their research first, or they might be the reluctant heroes, who really don't want to head into the vampire lord's castle - stake in hand - but choose to do what they must, not because they were born for danger, but because they know they're the only ones who can. This sort of game requires much more of the players' consent and absolutely isn't for everyone - as it sometimes requires the players to take a step away from the assumption that a few fireballs will solve every problem (despite the fact that that's often true). But, what it results in is a very different vibe around the table and an added dread that you tend not to get when concerned primarily with high stats. Sp. in option 2, the horror is more of a group thing, presented by the GM based on the themes of the campaign, then taken up and extrapolated upon by the players.
All of that being said, either of these works great! If you want a story like Buffy or Resident Evil, where you're badasses knocking the heads of things that go bump in the night, this campaign is totally for you. At the same time, if you want something moody and the players really want to experience the dread of their characters ala Dracula, Sleepy Hallow, or Fatal Frame, this campaign is totally for you too. Neither way is "right" or better than the other. It's all about your tastes, your group, and what you want out of a Pathfinder AP. And we realize that, and built Carrion Crown to make sure that you can play it and have fun with it however you like to run your game.
Also, for folks really interested in adding new terror techniques to their games, really creeping out their players, or running more immersive games, Rule of Fear is filled with tips on running horror-themed games. If you're interested in new ideas for making your game creepier, you might want to check out some of the so-called "Rules of Fear" in there.
** spoiler omitted **
Seriously? Ha! I honestly don't remember much from those adventures (as what I do remember from them is pretty... umm... "unflattering"). I'll have to look that one up tonight and see if there's any real similarities. Great minds and whatnot I guess. :P
I like that humans are so prominent in this campaign. In a campaign that plays up horror over fantasy, the more exotic races should be viewed with prejudice and fear. That said, there is room for halflings and dwarves if you want to play socially accepted races. I love how gnomes fit in (as circus freaks) and elves are scorned due to historical implications of their "do-goodery".
I absolutely love the classes options. I'm hoping to run this myself. But if I were playing in it I'd totally want to make:
* Dr. Frankenstein (unfortunately I can't see a way to make it without using the summoner class. And I dislike that class as it truly is too powerful in my experience).
* Archaeologist
* Naturalist Witch (as in a reclusive herbwoman who is sometimes sought out for mystical aid)
* Private Detective
* Scarzani con-man
Just you wait and see. I really like the Sleepless Agency and have future plans for them. For now, there's a little bit more about them in Rule of Fear, but not much. Until I have the opportunity to say more, look up the Pinkerton Agency on Wikipedia and let your imagination run wild.
Oh man that looks like a fun organisation to put into my campaign :) I've been thinking about running a Detective Agency campaign for quite sometime now (since I started running an Eberron campaign).
If there was less travelling in this campaign, I'd be tempted to throw out the campaign traits and replace them with ties to the Sleepless Agency (which really, doesn't need much more then a detective agency of reknown to get my interest).
Or quite possibly, Option 3, you somehow manage to keep the PC's feeling like their living on the edge, despite being big damn heroes, and pull them into the RP and fear aspect of the game during times not involving combat, yet let them cut loose when it's time to roll some dice. I've only been in a handful of games where the group and DM was capable of pulling that off, but they're some of my fondest memories. Here's hoping for another one.
Totally totally! These APs are all about giving GMs the tools to do what they love doing.
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This is a country that's been raided and brutalized by savagery for centuries, and as such there are very real racial prejudices. Most of these are aimed at Kellids - but at least they're human - the strongest are focused on orcs and - to their minds even more grotesquely - half-orcs.
So humans of most ethnicities should be fine, but it's those Kellids and orc-blooded characters that might be in for some interesting - and, to my mind, really exciting - roleplaying opportunities.
I was really happy to see orcs presented as a legitimate player option in the guide, to the point that I was a bit sad that I was already onboard with a human character concept. But the crazy-strong xenophobia has me a little worried that parties with orc-blooded PCs will be kept on the outs as far as Ustalavian society goes, especially if things are going to be as urban as suggested upthread.
Is it still possible to play as a half-orc or orc PC without derailing sizable chunks the AP? Will there be advice to the GMs on how to keep things on track, give the players alternate approaches that don't cheat them out of the meaty RP parts of the AP, and such?
Worries aside, thanks big time for showing heroic orcs some love!
@Mikaze; There's a trait called Humanlike or something that allows half breeds to fit in better as humans. Your orcish side doesn't show itself much, maybe just in build and hair quantity, or darkvision.
@magnuskn: I've read through it and my players are almost there. Trust me, they can bring the scary.
Good to know. :) Thanks!
Thanks for the detailed post to my assertion, Wes. :)
Magi of the Bladebound, Hexcrafter, Spellblade, and Staff Magus archetypes will all have equal opportunity to shine.
*gasp*
Why must you do this to me?! Ultimate Magic isnt out until April!! >.<The suspense is KILLING ME!!!!
May. ;)
May. ;)
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
** spoiler omitted **Seriously? Ha! I honestly don't remember much from those adventures (as what I do remember from them is pretty... umm... "unflattering"). I'll have to look that one up tonight and see if there's any real similarities. Great minds and whatnot I guess. :P
Ha ha, yeah. Although the funeral in that book didn't really have much to do with anything past the opening sequence. It was just a plot device to get the characters in the same place. As far as the series itself goes, it had a bunch of really cool and memorable scenes but it wasn't so great to actually play.
Is anyone going to try to do a mini-adventure where they actually get to meet the Professor so to bring maybe an attachment to him?
Ooooh, that's a REALLY cool idea. Even if you didn't award any XP, that kind of background would do a lot to make the first adventure more poignant. Do read up on Lorrimor's background in the first adventure, though, as you might be able to foreshadow some of the insights the PCs eventually gain in the first adventure.
Great idea though! Totally post here when you decide how your going to tackle this!
After reading the Players guide I have a few questions:
Is there a typo or something missing for the "On the Payroll" trait. You only gain an extra +150 gps? Wealthy parents gives +900 gps. It just seems so low.
Harrow Points / cards of fate
I love the idea of them flavor wise, but I hate action points (which it seems these are, or a stylistic version of them). How essential are these to the adventure? Or is there guidelines on alternative uses for them? Perhaps I am missing something as I have no idea what plot fate cards do and my comparison to action points may be far off base?
Aside from all that, I love the Slaanesh color scheme!