Obviously, it's generally impossible to throw a BBEG at a team of PCs without it being torn into shreds. The party's superior numbers give them the advantage in the action economy, so even an APL+2 opponent would not stand a chance. Of course, there are numerous ways to mitigate this issue, such as putting the terrain in the bad guy's favor, but the classical method seems to have always been to use additional enemies, the so-called "mooks."
Mooks are supposed to act as a buffer by hindering the PCs, but generally they are also supposed to be a little weak. However, what is best way of balancing these two? Make them too strong, and they can punch the PCs full of holes, make them too weak and the PCs can just walk right through them (figuratively) and stomp the BBEG anyway.
I have a little bit of trouble with this myself, as whenever I work on an NPC build for one, it always seems a little too weak or strong. In practice, they either end up doing way too much damage or swatted aside a little too easily.
For me mooks occupy an interesting design space.
To be effective they need to have the following traits.
1)Individually weak, but still a challenge in large numbers. You want it so that they die easily with a single attack action but you want them actually being able to threaten the martial PCs. That means their To Hit needs to be moderately respectable but their AC and HPs should be marginal. Unless you are doing the epic one PC holding a pass vs hundreds of Orcs the mooks should hit on something other than a natural 20. If they can't do some HP damage then they need to be able to somewhat reliably team up and grapple.
2)They need to be numerous enough that they actually can block charge lines and function as a meat shield for the BBEG. Keep in mind their major function isn't so much as to kill the PCs themselves but prevent the PCs from getting to the BBEG long enough that BBEG has at least a couple of rounds of life.
3)They need to synch well with the BBEG's attacks. If the BBEG is a SoL caster then the mobs need to be able to do attacks (or CDG) to the disabled PCs. If the BBEG is a blaster mage then then mobs need to be immune or resistant to his blasts, etc.
4)They need to be vulnerable to big room clearing magic. The PC blaster should be able to kill a number of mooks with each spell cast. Mooks are a great way of making AoE SoL and Blast spells seem particularly useful.
Honestly though the base rules tend to scale mook class opponents poorly as their HPs increase more rapidly than their offense and defense. Minionizing regular monsters ala 4e can work but many people have success with just using a large number of low CR foes that are adequately group buffed.
The aid other option can help. If enough mooks work together they can land a hit. They can also cluster to help the boss with his AC
Those are along the lines of what I was thinking of, vuron. However, a side issue stems from the logic that these mooks are very likely the same opponents that the PCs have been fighting to get to that point to begin with. In those cases the challenge should be more apparent, but if they're just thrown at the PCs as is, they won't really accomplish that.
The aid other option can help. If enough mooks work together they can land a hit. They can also cluster to help the boss with his AC
I've never thought of that, honestly. Though as GM I always feel awkward using special actions like assist, total defense, drop initiative, readying actions, etc. I'm never sure of whether I should word it the same as the PCs - stupid, I know.
Aid another + Grapple can quickly result in a pretty decent CMB score even if the grapple monsters are smaller than the PCs. 4-5 mooks adding a melee brute bodyguard can turn that creature into a tar pit of sorts.
I'm not 100% sure of the legality but I think you should be able to combine the Aid Another action with the Overrun and Bull rush actions as well. Being able to group tackle the PCs and get them prone can open them up to regular attacks in later rounds
aid another and gang up are great mook tactics.
*realizes that NPCs could use Teamwork Feats*
I suppose I haven't experimented enough, I've generally stuck to the typical warrior and archer type mooks. I should use the adept more, they could definitely spice things up a little. Only problem is flavor-wise, it's not always appropriate for an army to have too many mages.
Obviously, it's generally impossible to throw a BBEG at a team of PCs without it being torn into shreds. The party's superior numbers give them the advantage in the action economy, so even an APL+2 opponent would not stand a chance. Of course, there are numerous ways to mitigate this issue, such as putting the terrain in the bad guy's favor, but the classical method seems to have always been to use additional enemies, the so-called "mooks."
Mooks are supposed to act as a buffer by hindering the PCs, but generally they are also supposed to be a little weak. However, what is best way of balancing these two? Make them too strong, and they can punch the PCs full of holes, make them too weak and the PCs can just walk right through them (figuratively) and stomp the BBEG anyway.
Ok maybe its me, maybe its you but I believe that one of us is using the term mook wrong. In my opinion what you have been describing is more of a loyal minion than a mook. I've always thought of mooks as the BBEG's handy body guard, the dude with that little something extra to trip up the PC's.
Also just as a side note if you really want a BBEG to stick around longer than a round he probably should be higher than an APL+2, more likely an APL+4 with some dudes in the room before him or an APL+3 with a mook and a few minions in the room with him.
I rarely have caster/SLA mooks both because I tend to prefer a universe where casters are relatively rare (even though most groups will have 2+ casters) and because I think spells ans SLAs make for complex foes which is counter-productive if you are building mooks.
However I do see the roll of blast spam in some cases. 3-4 guard casters with a couple of buffs active and a wand of magic missile or shocking grasp can make for somewhat effective foes at low to mid-level.
Potions are also your friend. A ton of potions that can be used to buff the mooks to a respectable level can boost their effectiveness without catapulting your WBL into the stratosphere.
Obviously, it's generally impossible to throw a BBEG at a team of PCs without it being torn into shreds. The party's superior numbers give them the advantage in the action economy, so even an APL+2 opponent would not stand a chance. Of course, there are numerous ways to mitigate this issue, such as putting the terrain in the bad guy's favor, but the classical method seems to have always been to use additional enemies, the so-called "mooks."
Mooks are supposed to act as a buffer by hindering the PCs, but generally they are also supposed to be a little weak. However, what is best way of balancing these two? Make them too strong, and they can punch the PCs full of holes, make them too weak and the PCs can just walk right through them (figuratively) and stomp the BBEG anyway.
Ok maybe its me, maybe its you but I believe that one of us is using the term mook wrong. In my opinion what you have been describing is more of a loyal minion than a mook. I've always thought of mooks as the BBEG's handy body guard, the dude with that little something extra to trip up the PC's.
Also just as a side note if you really want a BBEG to stick around longer than a round he probably should be higher than an APL+2, more likely an APL+4 with some dudes in the room before him or an APL+3 with a mook and a few minions in the room with him.
The term more or less applies to any disposable NPC you can throw at your PCs. I'd make a bigger deal out of the loyal bodyguard archetype, personally.
True about the APL though. My party has pretty high stats (they rolled), so I usually apply to them as APL+1. Since I generally use the Core book's 15 pt. stat arrays for normal baddies, I do that to balance things out a bit.
Potions are also your friend. A ton of potions that can be used to buff the mooks to a respectable level can boost their effectiveness without catapulting your WBL into the stratosphere.
This might be where I'm erring. My NPCs tend to have a lot of leftover gold after I buy their stuff... I've never given much thought to giving them shiny toys.
So for a campaign that I am in, the BBEG (still in alpha) looks something like this:
(I expect him to last 8-10 rounds, and he will most likely be the only encounter in the week.)
lich
Karzoug vo Moamd'is
elf
wizard (divination) 20
CR 21
stats:
25 pt
pre race:
str 10
con 7
dex 14
int 18
wis 12
cha 14
race: Elf
+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, –2 Constitution: Elves are nimble, both in body and mind, but their form is frail.
Medium: Elves are Medium creatures and have no bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Normal Speed: Elves have a base speed of 30 feet.
Low-Light Vision: Elves can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light. See Chapter 7.
Elven Immunities: Elves are immune to magic sleep effects and get a +2 racial saving throw bonus against
enchantment spells and effects.
Elven Magic: Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on caster level checks made to overcome spell resistance.
In addition, elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Spellcraft skill checks made to identify the properties of
magic items.
Keen Senses: Elves receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.
Weapon Familiarity: Elves are proficient with longbows (including composite longbows), longswords,
rapiers, and shortbows (including composite shortbows), and treat any weapon with the word “elven” in
its name as a martial weapon.
Languages: Elves begin play speaking Common and Elven. Elves with high Intelligence scores can choose
from the following: Celestial, Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan.
post race:
str 10
con 5
dex 16
int 20
wis 12
cha 14
age: middle
-1 str dex con, +1 int wis cha
str 9
con 4
dex 15
int 21
wis 13
cha 15
level 20 +5
str 9
con 4
dex 15
int 24
wis 14
cha 16
lich
str 9
con -
dex 15
int 26
wis 16
cha 18
Armor Class: A lich has a +5 natural armor bonus or the
base creature’s natural armor bonus, whichever is better.
Hit Dice: Change all of the creature’s racial Hit Dice
to d8s. All Hit Dice derived from class levels remain
unchanged. As undead, liches use their Charisma modifiers
to determine bonus hit points (instead of Constitution).
Melee Attack: A lich has a touch attack that it can use
once per round as a natural weapon. A lich fighting without
weapons uses its natural weapons (if it has any) in addition
to its touch attack (which is treated as a primary natural
weapon that replaces one claw or slam attack, if the
creature has any). A lich armed with a weapon uses its
weapons normally, and can use its touch attack as a
secondary natural weapon.
Damage: A lich’s touch attack uses negative energy
to deal 1d8 points of damage to living creatures + 1
point of damage per 2 Hit Dice possessed by the lich.
As negative energy, this damage can be used to heal
undead creatures. A lich can take a full-round action
to infuse itself with this energy, healing damage as
if it had used its touch attack against itself.
Special Attacks: A lich gains the two special attacks
described below. Save DCs are equal to 10 + 1/2 lich’s
HD + lich’s Cha modifier unless otherwise noted.
Fear Aura (Su): Creatures of less than 5 HD in a 60-
foot radius that look at the lich must succeed on a Will
save or become frightened. Creatures with 5 HD or
more must succeed at a Will save or be shaken
for a number of rounds equal to the lich’s Hit
Dice. A creature that successfully saves cannot
be affected again by the same lich’s aura for 24 hours.
This is a mind-affecting fear effect.
Paralyzing Touch (Su): Any living creature a lich hits with
its touch attack must succeed on a Fortitude save or be
permanently paralyzed. Remove paralysis or any spell that
can remove a curse can free the victim (see the bestow curse
spell description, with a DC equal to the lich’s save DC).
The effect cannot be dispelled. Anyone paralyzed by a lich
seems dead, though a DC 20 Perception check or a DC 15
Heal check reveals that the victim is still alive.
Abilities: Int +2, Wis +2, Cha +2. Being undead, a lich has
no Constitution score.
Skills: Liches have a +8 racial bonus on Perception, Sense
Motive, and Stealth checks. A lich always treats Climb, Disguise,
Fly, Intimidate, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (religion),
Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Stealth as class skills.
Otherwise, skills are the same as the base creature.
feats:
1 combat casting
3 defensive combat training
5 spell penetration
7 leadership
9 greater spell penetration
11 spell focus (divination)
13 diviners delving (+2cl)
15 widen spell
17 minor spell exprtise (charm person)
19 major spell expertise (prying eyes)
bfeats:
1 Scribe scroll
5 craft wondurous items
10 forge ring
15 craft rod
20 craft staff
class abilities
Forewarned (Su): You can always act in the surprise
round even if you fail to make a Perception roll to notice a
foe, but you are still considered f lat-footed until you take
an action. In addition, you receive a bonus on initiative
checks equal to 1/2 your wizard level (minimum +1). At
20th level, anytime you roll initiative, assume the roll
resulted in a natural 20.
Diviner’s Fortune (Sp): When you activate this school
power, you can touch any creature as a standard action
to give it an insight bonus on all of its attack rolls, skill
checks, ability checks, and saving throws equal to 1/2
your wizard level (minimum +1) for 1 round. You can use
this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your
Intelligence modifier.
Scrying Adept (Su): At 8th level, you are always aware
when you are being observed via magic, as if you had a
permanent detect scrying. In addition, whenever you scry
on a subject, treat the subject as one step more familiar to
you. Very familiar subjects get a –10 penalty on their save
to avoid your scrying attempts.
wealth:
685,000 gp
120,000 Phylactracy
50k ring of prot +5
40k rod of absorbtion (30 levels, 5 are already absorbed)
147k headband of mental supirority +6
75k robe of the archmagi(black, sr 18 +4 saves, +5 armour +2 cL vs SR)12
12k medallion of thoughts (detect thoughts 24/7)
70k ring of wizardry (4)
170k greater rod of metamagic quicken
7k permanency tongues
7k permancy arcane sight
7k permancy see invisibiliy
hp
20d8 = 20 + 5*10 + 4*9 + 20*7
ac = 10 + 5(deflect) + 5(armour) +5(natural) +2(dex)
lich
str 9
con -
dex 15
int 32
wis 22
cha 24
saves:
will +12 +6 (wis) +4(robe)
fort +6 +0 (con) +4(robe)
ref +6 +2 (dex) +4(robe)
spells
4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
b 3 3 3 2 2 2 2 1 1
w 0 0 0 4
s 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
init....
20+10+2
skills
20 * (2 + 12)
Skill Wiz Untrained Ability ranks racial
Acrobatics — Yes Dex*
Appraise C Yes Int 20
Bluff — Yes Cha 20
Climb C Yes Str*
Craft C Yes Int 20
Diplomacy — Yes Cha 20
Disable Device — No Dex*
Disguise C Yes Cha 20
Escape Artist — Yes Dex*
Fly C Yes Dex* 20
Handle Animal — No Cha
Heal — Yes Wis
Intimidate C Yes Cha 20
Knowledge (arcana) C No Int 20
Knowledge (dungeoneerin C No Int
Knowledge (engineering) C No Int
Knowledge (geography) C No Int
Knowledge (history) C No Int
Knowledge (local) C No Int
Knowledge (nature) C No Int
Knowledge (nobility) C No Int
Knowledge (planes) C No Int
Knowledge (religion) C No Int
Linguistics C No Int 20
Perception C Yes Wis 20 8
Perform — Yes Cha
Profession C No Wis
Ride — Yes Dex*
Sense Motive C Yes Wis 20 8
Sleight of Hand — No Dex*
Spellcraft C No Int 20
Stealth C Yes Dex* 20 8
Survival — Yes Wis
Swim - Yes Str*
Use Magic Device — No Cha 20
note that the character still has money left over, is made for a party of 17th to 19th level party, and that it has been in development for a while.
The party is only level 5 currently BTW.
If you want a lower level example of something that should survive for multiple rounds, I need more time to make one, but barbs are a fairly safe bet.
Pretty neat-looking, but creating the BBEG itself isn't much of a problem for me. My last one was a kobold draconic sorcerer that specialized in fire magic. Unfortunately, 8d6+8 damage proved to be a little much for my PCs, so I ended up using Fireball only once. In the process, I had blown up most of my kobold mooks.
On second thought, that scenario pit the PCs against more than 20 of them, so things were out of whack to begin with.
Sounds like it was pretty intense! Shame the golems couldn't help beat them all to death.
Last time I GMed I had my players go up against a Lich and her army of Mooks (various undead).
I played it out so that the lich cast a huge fireball into his own lines hoping to take out a number of party members. I knew full well that my players reflex saves would make them all but impossible to hit for full damage but the lich had no idea.
Anyway, i did this for 2 reasons 1. to show how little the lich thought of the party and his own allies 2. and so that the mooks would all have a drastically reduced # of hit points.
I wanted them to pose a threat to the players but be easily destroyed. Hitting them all with a fire ball seemed like the best option. They were all weakened considerably by the blast but their to hit numbers were very much unaffected. They were in my mind window dressing for a much harder battle.
For the BBEG to survive more than a few rounds with an adventuring party, he needs the right type of mooks.
First lets look at the type of threats that the BBEG faces:
The Tank:
(Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins etc)
This character has a high AC and does a lot of damage at melee ranges. Once he closes with the BBEG, the clock is ticking till the end.
The Artillery:
(Wizards, Sorcerers and other combat classes)
From round 1 of the combat, they will hang back and pound the BBEG with high damage spells.
The Sniper:
(Archers and rangers)
This is all the Legolas wannabees. They will pick off the BBEG from the back ranks.
The Sneak:
(Mainly rogues, but can be anyone with an invisibility spell)
They slip past the BBEGs defenses and sneak attack. If they have a flank buddy too, the BBEG is done for.
The Disabler:
(Monks and other specialists who trip, bull rush and stun)
These types keep the BBEG from fighting back while the others close and attack.
The Support:
(Clerics and Druids)
They remove all that damage that the BBEG did to their friends and buff them to boot.
Now to counter these threats, the BBEG has a few different types of Mooks that he can employ....
The Mob:
This type of mook relies on sheer numbers to surround a bring down an enemy. Team grappling is something the mob wants to do. The mob usually works poorly against the Tank, but is very good at tying up the other types of threats. Wolves are a good example because they also have a trip attack
The Line Backer:
This Mook can plow through the party with overrun and inproved bull rush. Just like the famed Terry Tate, they knock a target to the ground and can keep them there. They are most effective against the Artillery, sniper and support. A good example is the Minotaur.
The Meat Sheild:
These Mooks are sheer cannon fodder, They are meant to die. They can block a charge or slow down the tanks. Zombies are a good example of a meat sheild.
The Monkey on your back:
This grappeling mook latches on and won't let go. He keeps an enemy occupied and prevents him from taking action. Chokers and Adherers are good monkey mooks.
The Irritant:
This mook causes just enough problems to draw attention away from the BBEG. They are often capable of ranged attacks and should be placed somewhere they can't easily be reached by melee enemies (someplace like an overhead balcony). Goblin archers are a good example of the Irritant.
The Interceptor:
This mook can send a tank running back because it can hit them with a fear effect. A Krenshar is a good example of a low level Interceptor.
The Right Hand Man:
This mook sticks close to the BBEG and helps stop Sneaks from getting the better of the BBEG. If the RHM is also a rogue, then he and the BBEG can flank an opponent.
THe Nurse:
This Mook also hangs back with the BBEG and keeps him healed. He is most always a low to mid level cleric.
The Trap:
There is nothing the BBEG likes more than the look on a fighters face when he promplty breaks into a charge towards the BBEG and then falls into a 30ft deep pit trap. Adventurers rarely search for traps during the heat of combat, which is what the BBEG is counting on.
I hope that helps.