Okay, I don't know if this actually is of any concern to anyone besides myself, but that is also what worries me. Does anyone actually care about the storyline, the character development and the ongoing events that takes place throughout a campaign?
First of all, I realize that I might have chosen the wrong game to be having this particular concern about, cos' frankly, this game and its history have collected a reputation of being focused on the "rules" aspect, more than the storytelling. Thus, people mostly recommend me playing "STORYTELLING" games, but damnit I don't want to.
I LOVE the Pathfinder RPG, and I've been playing its predecessors and it for the last 13 years --> since I was seven years old. Through all this time I have experienced (pun maybe intended, but you will never know) various ups and downs with the game but I no matter how far out the game got and how distasteful and cheesy my gaming groups were, I stuck with it.
But anyway, on to the point; Pathfinder is a large part of my life and it takes up much of my free time - and space. But, I do sometimes see the tendency, on boards and in discussions, that people are focusing excessively on the rules instead of the roleplaying. I don't know if I have just hit a business that I misunderstood. See, I want to play and live the stories of other people and beings in a universe that suits me better than the actual world I happened to exist in. But I just feel that the chance of me ever attaining this goal (i.e. finding like-minded people to accomplish this with) falls farther and farther away from me. But of course, I can always be wrong and there is always the possibility that there are some people out there that live the game in the same way that I want to, but it saddens me to know that these people aren't anywhere close to me. Maybe I've taken this hobby to a point beyond being just a game that is played for fun, but this is how I feel.
I don't really know what this thread is supposed to accomplish other than slightly honing my command of English as it is not my first language, but I am an avid "fan". I guess I just wanted a place to vent my frustrations a little, but it really hurts me that I haven't found others who feel the same way I do. But then again, this game is more than just a hobby to me, it's almost a philosophy. I know that it sounds a bit excessive, but hey, if I wasn't this poetic and caring about this game, I would ruin my point. I simply want to put the "roleplaying" back into my sessions, but as it turns out - at least where I come from - that IS in fact too much to ask.
And maybe it's all in my head - maybe I'm just worrying about something that isn't the case at all, but I sincerely doubt it.
And just to clear the air; I used to be the most insanely rule-focused player of all time till I realized that I wanted something more. AND, since there might be people who are going to tell me that I should just try and go out, and experience life for what it is, live in the moment and discover that the world is a wondrous place indeed, let me say this; I find the world slightly tolerable at best. I know that makes me a dark and pitiful person with a grim outlook, but when it comes right down to it; aren't people the most happy when they're doing what they love? Well I love Pathfinder, parties, writing and drawing, but I don't have the opportunity to be engaged in these passions at all times.
Alright, maybe it got a slight bit existential there and perhaps this qualifies this thread for a moving to another category, but that fits me fine.
All in all, just a general concern lodged within the mind of a fan that allows his life to revolve around a hobby.
- Last note; by now, my head is laughing loudly at myself for putting this on the board, but then again, responses will probably be entertaining at the least. But seriously, I haven't got a clue as to what this is supposed to do for me. I live in Denmark, and I've checked around the block - not many Pathfinder enthusiast, not even rule-fixated ones. But thanks for the game; I hope to find the "utopic" participants that I'm looking for. And if nothing else takes, I can always keep writing my stories that focus on the worlds imaginable through the pathfinder experience. Good day to all, and seriously thanks for the game.
Creative Director
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Judging from the healthy amount of subscriptions and sales from our Adventure Path line, which is VERY heavy on storylines and roleplaying opportunities... I suspect that there's plenty of folks roleplaying. I certainly count myself and the groups I play in or run in as having plenty of roleplaying going on in them.
The RPG rulebook boards themselves are pretty sparse on roleplaying and story, but that's to be expected since those boards are focused on the rules part of things. If you're looking for lots of posts about storylines and roleplaying, the Pathfinder Campaign setting boards are full of that kinda stuff.
Roleplaying is alive and well, in other words! :)
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I don't know about the people around you and roleplaying, but I'm not seeing an issue where I am. The reason why most discussions on the boards are about the rules is that people don't need to ask about clarification on roleplay, but they do on the rules. There isn't too much to say about roleplaying on the internet; you do it in person, and there are very few ways to do it wrong. But the rules are long and sometimes confusing, so opportunities for mistakes are frequent. Learning to roleplay isn't something you can do on the internet, so people don't really talk about it much here. Doesn't mean they don't do it in real life.
Honestly I've only been playing for going on four years now. Almost all of that time was as a DM.
I'll agree that 3.5 and to a lesser extent Pathfinder has a lot of rules that govern play. I've never felt this very limiting to the RP experience though. One misconception I see is the online environment. A lot of the talk on the forums will be more rule based and 'optimization' based. People very devoted to the game enjoy theorycraft and many people come here looking for very specific rule questions.
I've always had a campaign with a strong central story that starts from almost the first session, and that's the only ways I've seen a successful campaign done. Most of the games that I've participated in that failed had very weak plots and poor party cohesion on an RP level.
That's not to say there aren't people that only care about the numbers, I've met them from time to time. Sadly they're the people I see max themselves out for battle and then don't participate in role-play and thus end up becoming less and less involved with the game until they end up quitting. But I'm quite the big numbers player, I like to optimize whatever concept I play as, but I love playing a major party player.
Hope you catch what I mean... feels like I rambled there for a bit.
Your English is quite good.
Yes, people role-play. A lot of people role-play while tracking the rules to great precision. Many also role-play without caring much about the rules if they feel they get in the way.
Many argue about the rules on the internet. Many argue that the rules are not important on that same internet. Sometimes they argue with each other.
If you are the type who would rather discuss characters and ongoing games where the story takes precedence over the rules, I recommend you stick to the setting-based forums; the ones dedicated to the adventure paths and campaign setting materials.
The Pathfinder RPG general discussion forum can tend to be very rules-focused, because it is setting-neutral. Some people are (vocally) irked by the level of discussion there. I myself value both rules-design and setting discussion, so I tend to frequent both. However, if your feel that rules manipulations are a kind of denigration of the hobby, I do recommend sticking to the setting-content sections of the forum. There are some vibrant, creative discussions there that will not disappoint.
This is the kind of thread title and premise that tends to go downhill quickly. I sincerely hope that we can avoid collectively embarrassing ourselves. Welcome to the forums!
I will gladly accept what has already been replied to my statements. I think the most important part for me to remember is the comment on how people don't need to ask about the roleplaying, since that's what seems the most obvious point to this. It worries me a bit that I didn' come to that conclusion myself though. But my mind is sort of dingy (if I can even use that word this way) and sometimes I hard a hard time seeing the most straightforward and obvious solutions.
What I'm really trying to say, I think, is that I want the people I play with, to change their attitude towards the game. But how that's done, I have no idea. But eventually I'll figure something out, OR, forget about it at one of my "Partays". Thanks folks.
Consider two things:
1) Is far more easy to discuss about rules than about roleplaying. In RP, people can have different views about some fluff issue or what a Paladin should do in situation X, but that's all (and it seems to me that in proper sub-forums this is covered anyway).
But people discuss a lot about rules. Abut interpretation, advice, builds, and so on. Less agreement = more discussion.
2) Ropleplaying and rules are not completely separated. People could have a PC concept in their had and ask for advice realizing it. This is actually a good sign, because they love the connection between RP and mechanics because they want immersion, a key for RP.
Moreover, discuss about rules does not make RP-Blind, as far as I know. One can crunch numbers very well and enjoy RP. I always discuss about combat and stuff, but my group can spend sessions and sessions without a combat starting. :)
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Naggarath, you see more rules discussions vs flavor text for the same reason you see more reality shows than scripted ones. It's easier for someone to discuss rule systems than it is to write stories.
I'm very into the roleplaying aspect and have never had a problem choosing between what I want to do as a GM and the rules. Rules will lose every time. HOWEVER, the more I know and understand the rules, the easier my job as an adjudicator becomes and the more time I available for what I REALLY want to do: craft interesting plots, settings, and adventures for my players to frolic in... before I crush their hopes and dreams with nefarious villains. And so I come and have my rules discussions here, so I don't have them disrupting my precious, precious roleplaying time.
The short answer? You have no need to fear, those of us with a storytelling emphasis to their games are here and numerous.
To be honest, the reason why the group I play in get together twice a week to play in two different Pathfinder games (one being Curse of the Crimson Throne and the other is a homebrew campaign arc set in the Forgotten Realms) IS to ROLEplay. We each play characters that we have put countless hours into developing personalities and interact with eachother, and the game world around us, to tell a story. Fact is though, to say that you`re playing in the Pathfinder world, you must follow the rules that confine you, much like we must obey the laws of physics. Sure, there are DM calls here and there to interpret things this way or that, but the rules are what makes this game more than just playing pretend. The fact is that, in my group, the players who enjoy roleplaying the most are the most adamant min-maxers and rules connoisseurs so that they can continue to roleplay their characters (I count myself amongst them). It`s hard to see how the story goes when you get mulched into goo while trying to stop the evil cult. The better we know the rules, the better we can affect the world smoothly and continue advancing the story.
Your sentiments have some resonance with me. I would tell you to be patient. PF is still pretty new, but gaining fans every day.
I share your frustration in finding a group that you can really play with. It's as frustrating as finding a good woman (I mean that in a "good match for me" sense. Most women are good, just not right for me, for whatever reasons).
Don't stop trying.
Your English is quite good.
Yes, people role-play. A lot of people role-play while tracking the rules to great precision. Many also role-play without caring much about the rules if they feel they get in the way.
Many argue about the rules on the internet. Many argue that the rules are not important on that same internet. Sometimes they argue with each other.
If you are the type who would rather discuss characters and ongoing games where the story takes precedence over the rules, I recommend you stick to the setting-based forums; the ones dedicated to the adventure paths and campaign setting materials.
The Pathfinder RPG general discussion forum can tend to be very rules-focused, because it is setting-neutral. Some people are (vocally) irked by the level of discussion there. I myself value both rules-design and setting discussion, so I tend to frequent both. However, if your feel that rules manipulations are a kind of denigration of the hobby, I do recommend sticking to the setting-content sections of the forum. There are some vibrant, creative discussions there that will not disappoint.
This is the kind of thread title and premise that tends to go downhill quickly. I sincerely hope that we can avoid collectively embarrassing ourselves. Welcome to the forums!
Thank you for the kind words.
I guess your comment on how this thread will shortly see its end couldn't be more spot on, but I was having trouble finding the right place to put the thread, and I only recently noticed the tagline beneath the "General Discussions" headline that said "This forum is for general comments about the Pathfinder RPG and discussing the system with other gamers". The point of course, being that the "SYSTEM" is in focus here.
And just to clarify my updated opinion on the matter at hand, I think you're right that I'm worrying about something I shouldn't worry about.
Besides, some day I won't be living in this area any longer and I may be able to find the kind of experience I'm looking for.
I will gladly accept what has already been replied to my statements. I think the most important part for me to remember is the comment on how people don't need to ask about the roleplaying, since that's what seems the most obvious point to this. It worries me a bit that I didn' come to that conclusion myself though. But my mind is sort of dingy (if I can even use that word this way) and sometimes I hard a hard time seeing the most straightforward and obvious solutions.
What I'm really trying to say, I think, is that I want the people I play with, to change their attitude towards the game. But how that's done, I have no idea. But eventually I'll figure something out, OR, forget about it at one of my "Partays". Thanks folks.
My best advice for getting people more centered around the roleplay aspects is to make it more important. This doesn't mean to take out all the combat or anything, but once your players learn that if they had went and talked to the old hermit about the dragon they'd have learned he was afraid of cats. Teach them that by participating more into the story that it not only effects the roleplay aspects of the game, but also combat. This should help get the attention of the people that are very rules centric.
This has at least been my experience. Really getting people involved in roleplay is a very very very variable issue depending on the people.
I can get on board with that (i.e. most of everything you guys have been saying), I guess I should try a refreshed wellspring of patience and see how my next game plays out, my only worry is that I'm never going to be a player in the same kind of game that I write myself. But hopefully I will.
And not to be rude to anyone, cos I do feel that getting this off my chest, along with you responses have helped me; it's 02:35 where I'm at, and though I am on holiday, I really want to sleep so I propose we close the discussion at this point. But really and sincerely, thanks guys; you made me believe that there might still be hope for my dreams to be realized. And I'm no confident that they will. And should they not, I can always bug the hell?(dunno if I can say that) out of my players with my repertoire of mentally dysfunctional sideshow characters in between combat sequences.
And on a final note; the funniest thing is actually that most of the people I play with have begun playing different systems for a while because - they say - they're tired of Pathfinder being too rule fixated, which is funny because I joined one of their games to see what they were actually doing. As it turns out, they were actually doing the same bigoting and debating over rule related arguments, but in settings and worlds that they could relate to better because the base for these worlds was the real world. I find it hard to understand why they want to try and roleplay in so many different games, instead of trying to master one and then move on to something new. And I know it all comes down to the rules and mechanics, because if I suggest we just play pathfinder in another setting with completely different premises from the standard fantasy game, they say no.
But anyway, time for bed, I'll get back to the thread in the morning to see what all you nice people have written.
Goodnight.
I guess I'm of the opinion that 50% of the responsibility concerning the style of game played rests with 1 person, the Game Master. He or she has the most control over the plot, and also roleplays every person and creature in the world except the Player Characters.
The remaining 50% of the responsibility concerning the style of play is divided between the entire rest of the group. Certainly, many GMs have run a session expecting the party to do one thing, only to find that the party does something completely unexpected and unplanned for.
However, I still feel the GM has the most control over the style of play. If they want to run a Hack-and-Slash game, they will confront the party with a lot of combat. If they want to run an intrigue game, they will confront the party with a lot of roleplaying. If you are unhappy about the direction of your game, I would talk to the GM. Tell him or her that you want to create stories worthy of Tolkien, and feel less like you are playing a board game. Or, as an alternative, run a few sessions yourself.
One other thing to consider is this: Most newer players will fall more into the hack-and-slash category than the roleplaying category. This is natural, since the entire concept of roleplaying is probably new to them, but they have likely played dozens of board games in the past.
The best thing you can do with new players is set a good example, and work with them without forcing them into a style of play they are uncomfortable with. Do what you can to try having "meaningless" conversations between encounters, and when your party camps at night. Have your character cook a meal (especially if they don't have ranks in Profession: Cook). Have your barbarian clip his toenails next to another character's bedroll. Have your cleric start preaching about his faith. If you play a wizard, explain the strange things he does every morning as he tries to memorize spells. Pick a quirk and play it up. Always speak in 1st person as your character. It may take some time, but if the players are enjoying themselves, they will eventually start doing similar things.
the game i am currently running is role play heavy. the players are highly encouraged to role play their characters throughout certain situations. i think a lot of people are doing more roll play rather than role play. i view rpgs like a movie. its not all just action, there is story, and its just boring to sit there and roll for every situation. you get a lot more info about the characters and their lives, like, dislikes, goals, etc when you role play with them.
for instance, right now in my game, the players are in Osirion and are helping deal with a Rakshasa incident. but to be able to do this, they have to find out whats been killing off the spellcasters of the capital, which no one knows who they are. to get info on this, the players had to make a diplomacy roll to get in touch with a man that had 2 separate contacts, 3 if the players rolled high enough, that may have leads on the info they are looking for. but when they met this man, they role played out the encounter. 2 of the contacts were faulty where one was good. the one the got that was good has given them another contact they need to go see. once they get through with this they will need to meet with more people and get more contacts, etc. but they are role playing each of these out. screw the mechanics, i think outside the box with some of the stuff, it makes the game more realistic and more personal, and the reward of completing the campaign is much more sweeter when you get through all of this. thats my opinion.
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Many of us roleplay quite a bit - 3.5 and by extension Pathfinder may not be the absolute best vehicle for it, but as long as your GM remembers the first rule of GMing is "it's okay to break the rules for the sake of a good story," I think things balance out nicely. Personally I can't stand it when a GM is so stridently bound to the system that unless your party precisely fills out the proscribed party "roles" (tank, flanker, healbot, wizzarrrd) with fully-optimized characters you're bound for a quick TPK. Characters shouldn't be crippled by a few suboptimal choices (to an extent; there's always somebody willing to make a total gimp just to be annoying) made for the sake of a good story.
I think in some respects 1e and 2e (despite their numerous shortcomings) did a much better job of this by giving the DM a much freer hand. In past editions things like jumping on a flying dragon's back and inserting & activating an immovable rod in his mouth (described elsewhere in somebody's 'most awesome character moments' post) would be feasible - difficult, even heroically so, but feasible. In 3.5+ you have AoO's, grapple checks, CMD, size modfiers, action economy, Fly checks etc to consider, so as to make something like that basically impossible without some leeway from your GM, which is a little sad. The campaign I was just bounced out of was a good example of the downside of this - the GM ran things like every decision he made was entering into jurisprudence like he was a Supreme Court Justice, afraid to wing it with the rules lest any decision be used against him at a later date. Which is weird, cause that same GM ran the bar-none best Amber DRPG campaigns I've ever been in, which is about as rules-light, pro-story a RPG sytem you can find.
Again, someone who puts "roleplaying" on the one side of the equation, and then the typical terms like "character developement", "storylines" and so on on the other.
Note, that roleplaying can be presented in the context of this game..from tactical miniature combat of so called "characters" who are actually mere carriers of statblocks...
to reckless optimization /w CHA-dump that can recite the rules asleep
and so on.That's all "roleplaying", and some people tend to have fun the one or other way.
The actually worst thing, isn't really a lack of "roleplay", but a lack of tolerance for other styles of gaming
You might be right, but then again; when my players say that they want to be doing the same thing as me (i.e. actually act out my character), then this isn't a question about intolerance of other peoples gaming styles, this is a question about my players not REALLY wanting it enough to try and make it work when they instead juggle a number of different games they never quite get the hang of. We've had so many discussions about this within my gaming group, and everybody always says that they're TRYING to act, but then later on, when they're alone with me they "confess" that they, themselves didn't come through. Then, as an added bonus to my predicament as a GM, everyone starts to complain that the others in the group are ruining their immersion. So the unstoppable force have actually met the immovable object.
By now, I'm realizing that my problem is actually taking place within my own gaming group. I think I'm going to start a new thread when I've tried out my new campaign idea. But so far, thanks for your opinions people; I'll return later on if I need you again.
A common way to encourage players to roleplay is rewarding them for it. Giving individual bonus xp is easiest, but I advise against it, if someone ends up a level or more ahead of the group it can cause resentment as well as make encounter design more difficult, and if they never get a level ahead then they stop caring. I'm trying minor physical rewards, stuff they could've bought or crafted or otherwise done but didn't think of. Like training their horse or upgrading its barding, a selection of silver and iron arrows, getting a pet.
Also, when they do come up with character history & goals, go with it and integrate it into the campaign. If one of the others asks why that player got to be the star of a personal story arc, explain that it's because they gave you stuff to work with.
Sometimes more details matter, like asking who/how they do camp chores, or how they pass the time on watch. Give names and personalities for all NPCs, but make sure to write them down, since PCs tend to ignore the ones you spent hours on and focus on billybob the stableboy's life instead. Give them options on lifestyle, describe the grunge of the cheap inns and meals and the hardships of living in the wild, and see if they get excited about getting a bath and clean clothes and companionship. Find out what entertainment they like, and give their characters a chance to do the same sort of stuff.
You might be right, but then again; when my players say that they want to be doing the same thing as me (i.e. actually act out my character), then this isn't a question about intolerance of other peoples gaming styles, this is a question about my players not REALLY wanting it enough to try and make it work when they instead juggle a number of different games they never quite get the hang of. We've had so many discussions about this within my gaming group, and everybody always says that they're TRYING to act, but then later on, when they're alone with me they "confess" that they, themselves didn't come through. Then, as an added bonus to my predicament as a GM, everyone starts to complain that the others in the group are ruining their immersion. So the unstoppable force have actually met the immovable object.
By now, I'm realizing that my problem is actually taking place within my own gaming group. I think I'm going to start a new thread when I've tried out my new campaign idea. But so far, thanks for your opinions people; I'll return later on if I need you again.
Like others have said, the digression on the forums has nothing to do with the actual breakdown of 'roleplayers' vs 'rollplayers' within the hobby. There are plenty of people who focus on roleplay, and who give rules and roleplay equal weight in pathfinder games. The problem is discussing it. How much can you really discuss about a roleplay situation? You dont have common experience. To some, roleplay means improv acting, talking in voices, maybe even physically acting out scenes to some extent. To others roleplaying is primarily considering characters motivations and it is less important to 'act'.
There is no shared experience, and it is extremely subjective. So discussion on roleplaying issues are fewer. Rules are on the other hand a shared experience. We all have the rulebooks (in theory) and have all read them. We all use them to some extent and have used them in our games and have formed opinions on them. So we talk about rules more, and leave roleplaying to the table. It doesnt mean it isnt happening.
For your particular problem since players are trying to roleplay, it seems solvable. They just need some help. You might want to try a few excersizes to help remind (or introduce) the players with getting into character. A couple rounds of the Cardgame Werewolf can help alot with this. The basic game is very rules light and very roleplay heavy. People have to create characters on the spot each round, and then make up things to say.
In addition I recommend giving this a listen. Narrative Control Icebreakers the tale of Scalagrim the Barbarian Prince is a great excersize to warm up the roleplaying juices and teach a few key roleplaying techniques. It worked wonders on a friend who joined my group and was completely lost at trying to act in character and participate in roleplay.
That podcast also has lots of other good episodes about story driven gaming. And though most of their episodes are not specifically about pathfinder or dnd much of what they talk about can be applied in some fashion to pathfinder, if only generally.
In addition I recommend giving this a listen. Narrative Control Icebreakers the tale of Scalagrim the Barbarian Prince is a great excersize to warm up the roleplaying juices and teach a few key roleplaying techniques. It worked wonders on a friend who joined my group and was completely lost at trying to act in character and participate in roleplay.
I just started listening to this... thanks for the link!
A lot of the players in one of my games are a bit heavier on war-games and such. I get a lot of dry mathematics without many descriptions from them. I can't remember the thread it was in, but someone proposed taking away the maps. I moved the maps are behind the GM screen and had players describe their action rewarding them for effort. It seemed to help a lot. YMMV... either way, welcome to the bards! :)
This topic does get brought up a lot, though. So it is something on a great many peoples' minds.
I think it is natural for people to see something new as something to fear, and over the years after 2000, as more people gathered around 3.5, they saw the larger number and variety of rules, and some became fearful of what it meant to their roleplaying. Likewise, when confronted by people who were upset about the added or changed rules, the people who tended toward more rule-centered play felt defensive. This is how is starts.
I mentioned yesterday in another thread, that I felt the longstanding argument between roleplaying and "roll" playing had grown way out of proportion over the years, to where the sides have each accepted its existence as fact, and so stand ready to argue their side at the drop of a hat, but unnecessarily.
A lot of us have - and have been for some time - unnecessarily divided by this issue.
Personally, from now on, when I comment on these things, I am trying to find a way to blend both styles into something both sides can understand, if for no other reason than to maybe cut down on arguments and put this thing into better perspective.
As mentioned, there are all sorts of different styles of play. None is better than the others, just a better fit for specific players or groups. But if we could just learn to offer suggestions without judgment, and take advice without insult, we could make this mountain back into a molehill and worry about it a lot less.
Hard part of walking down the street.
I am playing a character that a power-gamer would spit on, but works well enough within the field where I want him to excel. And have good fun roleplaying him.
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but why play even play Pathfinder if you dont like the rules? Isnt that part of the game?
Sure, they are, and I didn't say I don't *like* the rules. I just think that GM's shouldn't be afraid to set them aside and improvise on occasions. There's a happy medium between letting your players walk all over you and coming up with a quick solution to something not well served by the rules (as in the case of jumping on a dragon's back - you're not really trying to grapple it, as you're not restraining its movement in any way that would give it an AC penalty, and its size modifier would actually be advantageous to you rather than a penalty - bigger target, more to grab, etc). I guess the core of what I'm trying to say is that rules should be followed unless they get in the way of the first, best rule, which is to have fun (both players and GM).
which is why amber is a great game for what youre describing: freeform action. but Pathfinder doesnt excel at that and most players actually play Pathfinder because they like the rules
Again, I like Pathfinder's rules - the only reason I mentioned Amber was because it was weird to see somebody so comfortable with freeform GMing suddenly become unable/unwilling to deal with situations where he might have to improvise a little, rules-wise.
It's nice/disturbing to be reminded that the entire world is barely tolerable at the most, not just my corner of the earth.
EDIT: I like Pathfinder for the rules, but I use them as the best means to an end; Adventure!
I don't just roleplay at the gaming table, if you know what I mean.
I love roleplay. I have goaded my husband into running a solo campaign specifically for it. There is combat... maybe twice in every ten sessions. Leveling rarely occurs, but I am challenged each session with some manner of social puzzle. Currently I am tasked with building a group not only capable but willing to sit through years of struggle against an egotistical tyrant with nothing tangible to aide them but their abilities, and my character has only just begun settling down and acting like a leader.
In other campaigns, I find it not quite as easy, partially because of the character I have created. My tiefling AT has 10 charisma, it's not exceptional. Her party leader has over 20, and is a paladin. She defers to his judgment a majority of the time, only stepping out of the shadows to offer her opinion on issues she has strong feelings for or against. Support is the role she is most comfortable in, though it is rarely rewarding in terms of roleplaying.
For me, story is the most important part of the campaign. The fifteen minute day where you fight once, twice or maybe five times in a day and then roll for some information, that bores me to tears. I am not a wargamer, I could honestly care less about combat, since leveling is not something my characters are interested in at least as far as numbers are concerned. Gaining access to more powerful spells as a cleric, resurrection, for example, is an incredible incentive to become stronger, but it is always in relation to how my character can further affect the world around her, or help the largest amount of people, or achieve her goals.
*post*
Definitely. My group ranges from RP heavy to RP-lite, depending on the person. I know myself and my friend (let's call him J) enjoy the roleplaying aspects of the game highly. Also, Jason is correct in the adventure paths are heavily roleplaying driven (unfortunately I don't have the money to keep up on the APs Q.Q).
Online, many of us discuss the rules and how they pertain to the game because the rules should more or less be universal (though there's far too much contention online, but what can you do, right?). I often discuss rules and create things to facilitate an exciting game as well as good roleplaying.
A character that is just a set of numbers rolled on a piece of paper isn't a character at all; and honestly I don't want to go through an adventure as the heroic 16, 12, 7, 14, 12, 18; I'd rather be playing my Paladin Ashmae the Haunted, Paladin of the Goddess of Death and Magic; protector of well-meaning necromancers and good people everywhere, who accepts the use of undeath for its benefits, while hunting down those that abuse the gifts of unlife (such as ghouls).
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I'm the RP'er in my group. I make different voices for most of my characters, I speak in-character a lot, and I often make decisions based on what my character wants instead of what I want. Most of the other players in my group are coming from Warhammer games, and they really get into the strategic/tactical game, sometimes ignoring the RP aspect. I'm not annoyed at this; I'm a tactical thinker myself. But sometimes I do wish they'd get more into the RP areas of the game.
I've found that with a little encouragement, sometimes they do. Here's what I believe they need:
1) They need to see somebody else doing RP and having fun. Doesn't sound like much, but nobody's going to care about the RP segments if they don't see anyone having fun doing them.
2) They sometimes need an in-game reason to care. If the party cleric gets a really cool holy symbol that adds +1 per channel die to his damage against undead by making friends with the high priest of Helios, then suddenly the other characters are probably going to look for other NPC's they can get cool stuff from. It doesn't even have to be anything super powerful... if it's cool enough they'll want one!
3) Each player needs an NPC they can really work with. Sometimes, it's easy, sometimes not. But every player needs to have an NPC they care about and work with at least a little. If they don't care about the NPC's you've already shown them, maybe they can fade into the background and you can present some new NPC's. Sometimes you can make old NPC's more likable. Sometimes, you might have to kill one off before any of the PC's care in the slightest. It's not a science, there's no hard-and-fast rule here that applies to everyone, but I find that interaction with NPC's is crucial to good roleplay.
4) Sometimes they just won't. Accept that everyone who likes this game likes it for their own reasons. Sometimes, those reasons don't include RP at all.
I think there's just lesss to argue about with role playing. Someone can be playing a rule wrong or oddly, but RP is even more subjective that rules interpretation. Its hard to quantify doing it badly or demonstrate how to do it better since we can't actually see someone at the table.
I don't just roleplay at the gaming table, if you know what I mean.
I in fact, do know what you mean :)
I think there's just lesss to argue about with role playing. Someone can be playing a rule wrong or oddly, but RP is even more subjective that rules interpretation. Its hard to quantify doing it badly or demonstrate how to do it better since we can't actually see someone at the table.
It does not stop folks from trying to tell us we are doing it wrong any way though does it?
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The group I DM is very much into role play. It's the essence of the game to us. To escape RL for a bit and be someone heroic. Someone your not. If only for a moment you can be the hero charging into the tower to save the damsel in distress. To hear the DM explain the situation is so much of the game. How you can feel the chill in your spine as you stare down the nose of a red dragon and can feel the heat of it's breath or can feel the damp air flowing in from a break in the dungeon ceiling. The world, the story, the life of the game is everything. Combat is always secondary to my group, but that's just our style.
Moments of what I would call true immersion is far and few between as my players are generally more interested in goofing around and rolling dice, although they do have their shining moments.
To me roleplaying is a mostly collaborative effort and all it takes is one player to break those moments. I have a hard time roleplaying npc's and monsters if one or more of my players is giving me impatient looks, fiddling with his phone, reading comics or just generally starts to joke and being silly.
Sometimes I have been blessed with players who actually wants to role-play and who don't break immersion for each other by acting as immature idiots, and those moments have been the best RP'ing experiences for me.
My current group is pretty mixed with their expectations of the game. Some are pure roll playing number crunchers, others are more balanced, a couple of them can be excellent role-players when they want to and one player is more interested in stories and roleplaying than anything that has to do with game mechanics. It can be challenging to please them all at times, but they seem to be having fun for the most part.
Every time I play, whether as PC or GM. Otherwise, I'd do something else.