nekkid griping? Sorry.
Sorry to hear about the frustration E7. I can't say I understand at all. My parents made it clear from a young age that they were done paying for my stuff once I turned 18. Of course, after seeing the disaster I made of that they softened that a bit for my sisters to done paying for stuff after you're done with college.:P
Anyways, good luck and I hope they get the message soon.
Nothing makes you appreciate money, time, and effort more than being broke. I second Callous Jack's proposal.Make them pay rent, they won't be so laissez-faire after that. That's what my dad did.Rant:
** spoiler omitted **
It's so foreign to me. Promises, signatures on credit cards, earning your own way mean nothing to them. *sigh* My 26 year old finally got a clue about a year ago but I still worry about him from time to time, but at least he's making progress.
The fact that the world basically works on daylight hours means nothing to their desire to stay up 'til 5 am and sleep 'til 3 pm. So foreign to me.
FWIW I third this The moment I had a job I started paying rent. I thought it was monstrously unfair at 15, but my parents were unsympathetic. You can always move out was the reply I'd get. Started At $50 a week and eventually did $500/mo when I finally got my own place. Taught me a lot about money management and bills you can't duck.
Or tell 'em to get night jobs. There's still money to be made when the sun goes down.
Suggested that. Jobs are pretty tough to find around these parts. Especially when you show up late a lot.
The college son is usually pretty responsible, but he slips into this mode every now and then. He'd be happy if I just moved out of my own house. Kinda backwards.
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It is a tough issue and there are no easy answers. I say you and your wife need to sit down, away from the kids and iron out a plan together. That way you are both consistent in your approach and having the same message. Each child and each situation is and well should be different. The only way to be fair at times is to be unfair.
"Finding" your place in the world can be quite noble and even necessary at times. It does not mean you have to live off your parents to do so. Yes college can be expensive and as parents we feel an obligation to help out how and where we may. The question is not when do you draw the line. Rather it is acknowledging that there should be a line, setting it and sticking to it. Easier most times to say than to do.
FWIW I third this The moment I had a job I started paying rent. I thought it was monstrously unfair at 15, but my parents were unsympathetic. You can always move out was the reply I'd get. Started At $50 a week and eventually did $500/mo when I finally got my own place. Taught me a lot about money management and bills you can't duck.
Did the same. Worked odd jobs as young as 10, paper route at 12, paid for 1/2 of my 'cool Pilot frame' glasses at 14. Chipped in on tuition in high school. Paid rent after I dropped out of college at 19.
Plus all along, always helped around the house and didn't look to be a financial burden on my parents.
Different world these days. Too much entitlement. And I helped create/shape the generation I'm griping about. *sigh*
After several days of fighting with the electronic systems that did not seem to want to work, I finally got my major officially changed with the college. So now my financial aid should be able to process. Yay. :)
Also it looks like my textbooks are going to be a lot cheaper this time than last semester. Not that that's difficult. :)
It is a tough issue and there are no easy answers. I say you and your wife need to sit down, away from the kids and iron out a plan together. That way you are both consistent in your approach and having the same message. Each child and each situation is and well should be different. The only way to be fair at times is to be unfair.
"Finding" your place in the world can be quite noble and even necessary at times. It does not mean you have to live off your parents to do so. Yes college can be expensive and as parents we feel an obligation to help out how and where we may. The question is not when do you draw the line. Rather it is acknowledging that there should be a line, setting it and sticking to it. Easier most times to say than to do.
Thanks. Tried to discuss and agree on these things with my wife but seem to find out the plan is ignored if I'm not there. I'm the only one that will point out the 'bad stuff'. She says, 'what's the point?' I can see now why divorces happen at middle age. Once the kids are gone you find out how dissimilar you are.
Please note that I ignore 90% of potential battles, but once the line is crossed I speak up. Unfortunately, the normal attempt at pointing out things quickly turns into arguments.
After several days of fighting with the electronic systems that did not seem to want to work, I finally got my major officially changed with the college. So now my financial aid should be able to process. Yay. :)
Also it looks like my textbooks are going to be a lot cheaper this time than last semester. Not that that's difficult. :)
Yay for good news!
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What exactly is your response to the "what's the big deal?" question? Also, the world has changed considerably- are they really not doing anything or are they doing "invisible" work?No invisible work. Just the desire to work only enough to have party money.
And their bill collectors call the house number when they default...
I wish I could find justification in their POV. It doesn't exist. I can only hope that some day it changes. Before I die.
Speaking of which, apparently I've been a real d!ck since my brain hemorrhage last year. Though my wife says I'm more mellow. I guess I'm only a d when I call them out on things.
** spoiler omitted **
The day I graduated from high school I understood: I would be allowed to live at home if I:
(1) Worked a full time job and paid rent(2) Attended school full time, paid all my own expenses (including school) and worked full time during the summer.
My parents did not allow me to work until I graduated, then I needed an instant full time job (thank god this was before the factory work dried up in Michigan). My parents would not loan me money, pay for school, or co-sign ANYTHING. If I hadn't rec'd a full ride scholarship, there would be no way for me to attend college. It was a battle to even get Mom and Dad to turn in the financial statements needed to apply for financial aid.
That especially sucked because their income prevented me from getting financial aid, but I couldn't get anything from them.
When I got back from Japan right after the .com bubble burst and couldn't get a programming job for 4 months, my mom actually asked me if charging me more rent would "help me find a job".
Not really...there weren't any.
YOu can go too far in the "You're 18, you're outta here" direction - like not allowing your kids to get the work and credit history they'll need before you kick them out - but I think in balance I lean toward that more than the "I'll let you live here rent free until you find yourself or I die of old age...whichever comes first." approach, however.
I think my wife and I disagree on this point more than she'll admit. When we talk she's on board with my POV, but won't enforce our agreements. Leaving that to me, or expecting me to not speak up. And not pointing out that she agrees with me when the time comes when I do. She internalizes things and hates confrontation, and the kids exploit that.
I did revert to 'There's the door. Good luck on finding that Eutopia.' That seemed to change the tone to 'I'm trying and I appreciate everything' from the older one. Though words are cheap. The college one was too pissy to admit it was his match that got to close to my gas tank. He's the one that helped himself to his uncle's guns.
Oh gods, how I love the hot braised chicken at Mandarin Garden. Crispy, in a spicy sauce that actually tingles in your mouth. There is nothing so tasty...
*swoon*
Probably better than the Burger King chicken sandwich I had for lunch.
I want to hit things.
>:(
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I want to hit things.
>:(
Sorry. :(
Hmmmm.....maybe I should make a paper village so you can stomp it...would that help?
Rented house in Detroit for me and my young family, plus I worked 50 hours a week.I'm interested in knowing where you lived at 23.I agree. At 23, I bought my own car and wasn't too far from buying my own condo.How are they ever going to act like men if they keep getting babied? X_XTried and failed. Momma bear problem with the one who's 'finding himself', and the younger is in college full-time so I cut him more slack. The attitude and lack of appreciation is what gets me. When I get to the point where I say anything it tuns into an argument. Saying 'there's the door' sets my wife off. *sigh*Make them pay rent, they won't be so laissez-faire after that. That's what my dad did.Rant:
** spoiler omitted **
Cool. My wife is opposed to the renting a house idea, she wants to own. Still, we have a very good deal on our apartment right now, so I'm not exactly complaining.
Or tell 'em to get night jobs. There's still money to be made when the sun goes down.Suggested that. Jobs are pretty tough to find around these parts. Especially when you show up late a lot.
The college son is usually pretty responsible, but he slips into this mode every now and then. He'd be happy if I just moved out of my own house. Kinda backwards.
Okay, THAT deserves a foot up the posterior.
What exactly is your response to the "what's the big deal?" question? Also, the world has changed considerably- are they really not doing anything or are they doing "invisible" work?No invisible work. Just the desire to work only enough to have party money.
And their bill collectors call the house number when they default...
I wish I could find justification in their POV. It doesn't exist. I can only hope that some day it changes. Before I die.
Speaking of which, apparently I've been a real d!ck since my brain hemorrhage last year. Though my wife says I'm more mellow. I guess I'm only a d when I call them out on things.
** spoiler omitted **
The day I graduated from high school I understood: I would be allowed to live at home if I:
(1) Worked a full time job and paid rent
(2) Attended school full time, paid all my own expenses (including school) and worked full time during the summer.My parents did not allow me to work until I graduated, then I needed an instant full time job (thank god this was before the factory work dried up in Michigan). My parents would not loan me money, pay for school, or co-sign ANYTHING. If I hadn't rec'd a full ride scholarship, there would be no way for me to attend college. It was a battle to even get Mom and Dad to turn in the financial statements needed to apply for financial aid.
That especially sucked because their income prevented me from getting financial aid, but I couldn't get anything from them.
When I got back from Japan right after the .com bubble burst and couldn't get a programming job for 4 months, my mom actually asked me if charging me more rent would "help me find a job".
Not really...there weren't any.
YOu can go too far in the "You're 18, you're outta here" direction - like not allowing your kids to get the work and credit history they'll need before you kick them out - but I think in balance I lean toward that more than the "I'll let you live here...
I was in the same bolded situation as you probably remember from the last time a similar issue came up. I do believe it has seriously affected my work ethic in a postive way, but it hasn't made me the best person with money. I'm still trying to balance my budget. We're not exactly starving, but I'm trying to figure out the best way to build a savings. My wife is a proponent of the ten percent a paycheck plan, but her occasional forays to buy swimsuits and other such things kinda take a bite out of that. Still, I'm trying...
Okay, THAT deserves a foot up the posterior.Or tell 'em to get night jobs. There's still money to be made when the sun goes down.Suggested that. Jobs are pretty tough to find around these parts. Especially when you show up late a lot.
The college son is usually pretty responsible, but he slips into this mode every now and then. He'd be happy if I just moved out of my own house. Kinda backwards.
He actually verbalized that sentiment during one argument. Only a month or so after I got out of the hospital and was recovering last year, and suffering from constant headaches. Then threw in 'why didn't you just die?'.
But he was just angry/depressed from a break up with his girlfriend. He didn't mean it....(according to my wife)
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I'm not opposed to helping out with the occasional bill, but I'm against making the kids pay rent. I realize I live in a weird part of the country and that the experiences here don't mirror those of other places, but in almost every experience I or my friends have been in, paying rent(note- NOT helping out with the bills!) usually results in a kid that simply can't afford to move out and ends up staying home longer because the bite being taken out of their check eclipses the amount of money they would need to actually move out.Tried and failed. Momma bear problem with the one who's 'finding himself', and the younger is in college full-time so I cut him more slack. The attitude and lack of appreciation is what gets me. When I get to the point where I say anything it tuns into an argument. Saying 'there's the door' sets my wife off. *sigh*Make them pay rent, they won't be so laissez-faire after that. That's what my dad did.Rant:
** spoiler omitted **
I disagree, I don't live in a cheap part of the country either and I was still able to easily make a living. No kids or commitments leaves a lot of spare cash but I never was one to blow a ton on bars, games or books. I saved a chunk every month for a down payment on a condo. It took a few years but it happened.
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Still same subject:
Since she was unable to work, we had a lot of help from the state. Now you would think that because of this I would be more open to social programs from the government, but it exactly because I experienced some of the damned dumbest mismanagement from them, that while I think there should be some help for people, the government should maybe outsource a lot of the programs.
Sorry to take so long to get to the point here. Anyway my father kept paying, regularly into child support. The state of Louisiana received it, but since they did not know where to send it, just left it there. The state of Kansas not looking all that hard or talking to LA, well they just assumed he was a dead beat dad and ignored it.
Upon turning say 15 I asked about my father and my mother relented and found the numbers to contact my grandparents and then thus my father. Who then knowing where we were contacted child support enforcement to then send the money and incurred interest to me.
So by this time I am a 16 year old who all of a sudden get 8 years of child support. You would think this is great right. Except that now my mother, because I was living at home, had money. Or so the state said. So I could not save it. We could either use it to live on for a short while, which would cut off any benefits she was getting. Or, I could go on a wild spending spree, have stuff, but no savings and yet we would be able to have rent and food money.
I found out that any jobs I took under 16 basically had to be things like lawn mowing, so not much money, or under the table. Or we ended up in the same boat. My first "official" job was not until I turned 18. When I moved next door, for while I wanted to leave this state, I could not leave my mother to fend for herself.
To this day I hate spending money on just "things."
*crawls back into the thread half-dead*
I've been working 11-16 hour shifts for three weeks, and saturdays to boot. I'll be back more after August 9th or so... I miss FAWTL...
So I was up until 3 a.m. working on a server move this morning...and there was fallout all day today...will be fallout all day tomorrow, plus the backed up other work I have.
a frustrating day of standing still or moving backwards as we try to untangle reams of proprietary web applications now pointed at the wrong database server...
And last night I thought I was sending an email to the others working through the night on the email - I'd been sending "reply all" emails all evening to avoid missing anyone - and I sent one "reply all" email that had been written...to everyone in the company.
Oops.
At least it wasn't an awful email:
I'm going to come in with lots of caffiene tomorrow!
My liter of mountain dew is gone, by the way.
::sad face::
Urgh. Failing Will Saves left and right. Goona bail for a bit. Later folks
*blink*
Please tell me you're at least hourly, and getting paid for all this!*crawls back into the thread half-dead*
I've been working 11-16 hour shifts for three weeks, and saturdays to boot. I'll be back more after August 9th or so... I miss FAWTL...
I wish.... I'm military. I get an empty wallet, a neglected fiance, and a belly full of derision towards my superiors. It is what it is I guess.... I worked 28 hours in the last two days, and I'll never see anything for it other then pressure to work more efficiently. All in all, it's pretty typical treatment for my career field, but the work isn't normally anywere near this intense.
Happy late B-Day Nathan! We tried to say so a while back, but looks like you missed it. :D
Awwww GARSH! I'll look back, thanks all, I really appreciate the birthday wishes. I got a new tattoo for my b-day, and a punch of pizza.... it was great!
tattoo was a quote from Cyrano De Bergerac;
I - I will be a storm, a flame
I need to fight whole armies alone
I have ten hearts, I have a hundred arms
I feel too strong to war with mortals
BRING ME GIANTS!
It starts at my left wrist and goes up across my shoulders and back, then ends above my right wrist.
Awfully hot in OKC but we took CrimJ's advice and saw the memorial. Very nicely done and a good way to remember what happened.
What time do you hit Big D? ;)
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E7: I'm sorry you're having such troubles. I have to say I've seen the same problems in myself. Never having a job during high school, being supported by my parents, and then enlisting right into the military, where I've never had to worry about rent, meals, or spending money, makes it hard to understand the reality of being poor. It's a subject of contention between my wife and I, since she grew up 'on the wrong side of the tracks' and is driven to avoid sliding back after clawing her way up, and I have that same attitude as your kids, 'it will work out fine' and 'just don't think about it'. Which, for my OCD-constant-planning wife is infuriating. It's biting me in the behind after all with the military changing its retention and promotion systems, and now I'm in crunch time to get promoted or be pushed out.
Jesszilla: Like I said before, I'm beginning to relate to your woes. Moving to 3rd Brigade, 1st Cav NetOps was both a good and bad idea. Good because I'm learning a lot, bad because I HAVE to learn a lot to keep up with the job. I screwed up a config on a switch yesterday and had to stay late to fix it. Good learning experience, bad for my poor tired brain. Of course, I'm going to be working directly for the LAN tech starting tomorrow, which is good because I want to get promoted and go warrant officer in his specific field anyway.
Nathan: Sounds like a bad ass tat, laid out a bit like mine even. Post some pics if you like!
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Boogity Boo!
Howdy folks. Still in my training class. Between that and trying to get stuff done at home, I haven't had much time to post around here.
E7 - sucks to hear about your kid problems. But is sounds like the older one is slowly getting his shit straight. A good mugging by reality has been known to set many a youngster straight. Good luck with the college one, but he's probably doomed. DOOMED I TELL YOU!!!
Everyone else: you guys kick ass.
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Awfully hot in OKC but we took CrimJ's advice and saw the memorial. Very nicely done and a good way to remember what happened.What time do you hit Big D? ;)
Way too far out of the way :) We're just getting into Amarillo.
I've noticed our route more or less shadows the old route 66. Cool stuff.
This part of Texas is very flat.
Awfully hot in OKC but we took CrimJ's advice and saw the memorial. Very nicely done and a good way to remember what happened.What time do you hit Big D? ;)Way too far out of the way :) We're just getting into Amarillo.
I've noticed our route more or less shadows the old route 66. Cool stuff.
This part of Texas is very flat.
I see how it is.
::Brings giant boom box from the 80s into thread. Inserts tape and plugs in mic and begins singing along::
Have I told
you late-ly
that I love you...
Don't try and fix it now. Treppa and Puffy, yes; Leafman, no. It's because you knew Heathy wouldn't come out, wasn't it?
I do not now recall what I was going to write.
My voice has that effect on people sometimes. Don't try to speak, just take it all in.
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Don't try and fix it now. Treppa and Puffy, yes; Leafman, no. It's because you knew Heathy wouldn't come out, wasn't it?
They don't want to get the rash. Stupid urushiol!
Wuzza?I do not now recall what I was going to write.My voice has that effect on people sometimes. Don't try to speak, just take it all in.
See? When I sing, CJ becomes completely mesmerized.
~Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto~
Awfully hot in OKC but we took CrimJ's advice and saw the memorial. Very nicely done and a good way to remember what happened.What time do you hit Big D? ;)Way too far out of the way :) We're just getting into Amarillo.
I've noticed our route more or less shadows the old route 66. Cool stuff.
This part of Texas is very flat.
That's cos the girl I worked with from Amarillo is in DFW now.
*rimshot*
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::Brings giant boom box from the 80s into thread. Inserts tape and plugs in mic and begins singing along::
Have I told
you late-ly
that I love you...** spoiler omitted **