
talast |
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Hi all, new to 2e. Only started on reading the rules so far. I got some questions I hope you guys can clarify for me. It's derived from reading the fighter class and other martial classes:
The fighter's weapon and armor proficiency advancement section both listed the fighter can apply weapon critical effects and armor specialization effects. But I don't see this listed in a good number of other classes. I.e. Exemplar class. Is it assumed that if you are at least expert, you can apply those effects or you don't get them unless your class specifically stated so?
The Exemplar class listed light/medium and unarmored proficiency. But not shield. Yet it starts with a shield block ability. Is it assumed that if you have some kind of armor proficiency, you are also proficient in shield?
Thanks in advance.

Squark |

1) No, you only gain armor or weapon specialization if something says you do. Most classes that are not dedicated spellcasters have some access to critical specialization, but how they do it varies wildly (Champions only get it by choosing Blessed Armament, Rangers only get it against their hunted prey, barbarians only get it while raging, while swashbucklers have access to it with any weapon they have expert proficiency). Armor specialization is pretty rare. I think Fighter and Champion are the only released classes to get it without an archetype, although it was available to both of the classes in the Battle Cry playtest.
2) There is no shield proficiency. Anyone can use the raise a shield action, wizards, monks, etc. included. The shield block feat only enables you to use the shield block reaction.

talast |
1) No, you only gain armor or weapon specialization if something says you do. Most classes that are not dedicated spellcasters have some access to critical specialization, but how they do it varies wildly (Champions only get it by choosing Blessed Armament, Rangers only get it against their hunted prey, barbarians only get it while raging, while swashbucklers have access to it with any weapon they have expert proficiency). Armor specialization is pretty rare. I think Fighter and Champion are the only released classes to get it without an archetype, although it was available to both of the classes in the Battle Cry playtest.
2) There is no shield proficiency. Anyone can use the raise a shield action, wizards, monks, etc. included. The shield block feat only enables you to use the shield block reaction.
Thank you very much

Castilliano |

Note that Shield Block is quite strong, like PF1/D&D Damage Reduction. Such is the tradeoff/benefit of going with a one-handed weapon and spending an action to Raise Shield. Raise Shield's a big difference here, as shield's aren't passive boons, meaning that even though everyone can carry and raise a shield, many PCs don't find it worth both the hand and the action cost. Ex. Casters who can cast Shield or a Bardic Composition; or those who like to Intimidate or move around the battlefield or otherwise have solid third actions, they might not even have the spare action to Raise Shield so why carry one? (And w/o Shield Block, you're not getting as much benefit as others from that cost.)

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If you DO decide that you want to raise your shield a lot AND if you aren't generally using your reaction then the feat Reactive Shield may be a great investment. It is a 1st level Fighter Feat but it is also available from the Bastion Dedication. Basically, it turns the action to raise your shield into a reaction so you can use all 3 actual actions to do other stuff.
Also worth noting that if you actually Shield Block a lot you both need to get a much better shield (either a sturdy shield or another shield with the Reinforcing Rune) and keep it close to your level as you level up AND have a means of repairing it (either a teammate or you needs a bit of crafting and the quick repair skill feat).
Sword and Board is a very viable tactic in PF2 but you have to invest some resources in it to use it well and often

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Note that if you Shield Block a lot, you need to invest a lot in the expense of Sturdy Shields. And Crafting, so as to repair them, magical mending only works on non-magical items, and is fairly expensive in resources.
Or you can forego Shield Block. Simply Raise Shield and acquire +2 AC, which is a lot in 2E. And use those resources somewhere else.
Note: a Fighter that uses his Shield Block or even the Raise Shield reactions, is forgoing his Attack of Opportunity.

Perpdepog |
Sir Belmont the Valiant, II wrote:But I thought Sturdy Shields were not magical.... you need to invest a lot in the expense of Sturdy Shields. And Crafting, so as to repair them, magical mending only works on non-magical items, and is fairly expensive in resources.
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No, they are.
That being said, Mending can repair magical items of up to one bulk when it's heightened, and I'm not sure what they mean by expensive in resources; it has no casting cost. Unless they're referring to the expending of a spell slot or similar.

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This is going to get a little long, but the phrase "expensive in resources" has been questioned.
A Sturdy Shield is described as follows: With a superior design and excellent craftsmanship, this steel shield has higher Hardness than its non-magical counterparts, making it harder to break and destroy.
So yes, magical. A Mending spell will fix one if it is Heightened to 3rd level. Were you planning on carrying this spell in one of your spell slots instead of Aqueous Orb, Fireball or Holy Light? That's one of the resource expenses I was talking about; it takes up the 'resource' of a spell slot. (Or perhaps, a Martial character is asking another party member to do this for him?)
Another way to expend resources on this effort is to get a Wand of Mending, heightened to level 3. Let's see, that's a 7th level item that costs 360 GP, and can be used once per day. And will only restore 15 hit points to the item. It might not get your item back to 'unbroken' status.
Hmm, I suppose you could get a couple of 3rd level spell scrolls at 30 GP each and see how often this problem actually comes up in play? Such scrolls are only 5th level items. This seems like the most sensible way to go about it.
A Sturdy Shield at level 4 (as low as it goes) costs 100 gp and has a bulk of 1. Pray let me remind you that 100 GP will turn a normal weapon into a +1 Striking weapon. And at level 5, you need 165 GP to enchant your armor to +1.
This entire discussion is about: do you want to do this? Do you want to spend these resources to fix shields damaged by Shield Block? Or do you want to spend this money/reaction when you could instead save your reaction for Reactive Strike and spend the money elsewhere?

Tridus |

Captain Zoom wrote:No, they are.Sir Belmont the Valiant, II wrote:But I thought Sturdy Shields were not magical.... you need to invest a lot in the expense of Sturdy Shields. And Crafting, so as to repair them, magical mending only works on non-magical items, and is fairly expensive in resources.
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Based on what? They don't have the Magical tag or any magical tradition tags.
RAW, they are definitely not magical.
This is going to get a little long, but the phrase "expensive in resources" has been questioned.
A Sturdy Shield is described as follows: With a superior design and excellent craftsmanship, this steel shield has higher Hardness than its non-magical counterparts, making it harder to break and destroy.
So yes, magical.
No, its "non-magical counterparts" are the other non-magical shields.