I was debating whether to put this in the rpg section or here, but I decided there were too many spoilers to park it in plain view.
So my current campaign is moving along and I am starting to give serious thought to how I am going to pull off it's planned climax.
If you are in my campaign, stop reading now.
My current campaign is a modified council of thieves game, essentially I am removing the entirety of the main plot, the council of theives is not the antagonist, nor any members, House thrune is. They sent agents to deliberately sabotage the Nessian Spiral and then work out a deal with Liebdaga to reinstill additional havoc. The children of westcrown are removing a lot of the fear that dictators so love in their people, giving them hope, that has to stop. Alot of the major elements of the campaign remain similar with just the underlying antagonist being far more visible (the evil empire) and the potential for a 'bigger' climax.
The plan being the party eventually unites the local nobles, most of the hellknights [excluding the order of the rack] and foreign forces in the liberation of cheliax from house thrune entirely.
As the players begin to succeed thrune will become more desperate and essentially open a portal to hell, releasing increasing numbers of devils into the world. The final battle in the war will be the players (with a fair amount of help) confronting Mammon on the battlefield (havent yet decided his stats but I anticipate the party being right around level 20 at this point).
But that isn't where I want to stop this. I had an idea that I think could be interesting, revolving around Aroden. What if he didnt die, but in fact was captured and imprisoned in hell by Asmodeus? He certainly gained quite a bit by Aroden's absence, so it makes a certain amount of sense. So my plan is that 2 dukes of hell, one former and one current (Liebdaga and Mammon) were entrusted with the keys (uniquely shaped giant rubies infused with powerful magic) to the chains restraining Aroden. When the party defeats or banishes Liebdaga at the end of my version of the Infernal Syndrome, they will get their first flashes (literally) of Aroden(as an unknown figure) chained in hell being tormented.
I plan to drop hinds about it as things proceed, ultimately culminating in Mammons defeat, they will get the full picture. At this moment Iomedae becomes aware of the situation (one of her paladins is in the party after all). At which point she would appear before the party with a request, she wouldn't be a match for Asmodeus deep inside hell, but she (possibly with help from powerful Archons) could hold him at bay while the party moved to free Aroden with the keys.
Assuming the party accepts the challenge my concern is this, obviously pathfinder has not yet delved into epic or deity rules, so some amount of abstraction of the battle between iomedae and asmodeus would be required, but how much?
My thoughts are to describe the fight cinematically, and to have the plane literally shake and shudder when a wounding blow is delivered. Possibly if Iomedae confronts him with the Aid of Archons, to have after a certain number of rounds, have one archon killed, then another, then describe Iomedae as considerably wounded, to heighten the tension of the moment as party scrambles to get past (or quickly defeat) the minions of hell to use the two keys to release aroden so everyone can escape.
So basically my questions are, do you think the idea would be a fun climax for an extended council of theives game? And what about representing the combat among the immortals, and presentation to the players?
On climax:
I would say that having a god doing the final battle, even if it's "your" god, could remove some of the players' feelings that their characters saved the world.
On god-fighting:
Unless the PCs are supposed to join in the fray, a battle between two gods could easily be fought by just creating two lvl 20 characters who duke it out. Lesser beings could be represented by lower lvl creatures. If the PCs are joining in, I would say that statting gods would be a very group-specific thing, just like how common high-lvl NPCs are. For example, in our Kingmaker campaign my players had a feeling that they were fighting a demigod at the end, since we had assumed that the PCs were incredibly powerful and that NPCs of lvl 10+ were very rare. I'm pretty sure that the end of Serpent's Skull will feel pretty epic, although the PCs only reach lvl 18-ish
On climax:
I would say that having a god doing the final battle, even if it's "your" god, could remove some of the players' feelings that their characters saved the world.On god-fighting:
Unless the PCs are supposed to join in the fray, a battle between two gods could easily be fought by just creating two lvl 20 characters who duke it out. Lesser beings could be represented by lower lvl creatures. If the PCs are joining in, I would say that statting gods would be a very group-specific thing, just like how common high-lvl NPCs are. For example, in our Kingmaker campaign my players had a feeling that they were fighting a demigod at the end, since we had assumed that the PCs were incredibly powerful and that NPCs of lvl 10+ were very rare. I'm pretty sure that the end of Serpent's Skull will feel pretty epic, although the PCs only reach lvl 18-ish
Well the idea here is not that the gods are having the final battle, but that Iomedae is trying to keep Asmodeus at bay long enough for the players to release aroden (getting past numerous minions of hell in the process). I expect the players will be level 20 by this point, so the idea that the gods are level 20 characters simply wouldnt work. Along with that I definately dont want to fully stat out the dieties as that would add alot to what is already going to be a complicated combat. I also plan to emphasize that the players aren't meant to get involved in that fight and to focus on their own task.
My thought is more that I want them to essentially be an environmental effect that impacts the combat of the players fighting their way to the locks holding Aroden's chain. But I want to emphasize that tension from knowing Iomede cant hold out forever against the Lord of Hell in his own dominion.
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Make Asmodeus a pit fiend with 20 character levels in fighter/blackguard. Add the paragon template.
Make Iomedae a human with 20 character levels of paladin. Add the paragon template.
The paragon template can be found in Green Ronin's Advanced Bestiary (I think). There may also be a version of it in the more recent Pathfinder compatible book of templates (3PP, don't know who).
Basically, if you add the paragon template to a kobold, it's going to be one bad-azz kobold and tough for the party to hurt. Add it to a 20th level character and you have serious issues.
In an epic game (3.5) I played in, the DM threw a paragon pit fiend at us. It was almost impossible for us to hurt it.
Because Iomedae is only a human, while Asmodeus is a full pit fiend on top of the rest, she shouldn't have an easy time with him.
[EDIT] add area effects like Unhollow and a couple Symbols to make the fight harder for Iomedae. She may be able to handle the Symbols, but her allies probably won't.
The players should realize they aren't going to stand a chance against either of them.
Personally, what I would do is keep narrating the combat, and when the players are pressing their enemies, have Iomedae taking the upper hand. When the PCs combat turns desperate and they are slowly being pushed back, see Iomedae trip or something. basically their fight and how it proceeds reflects how Iomedae fares. So basically narrate a swordfight, with two auras around each god. While the PCs fight the level apropriate encounters of Aroden's guardians.
