How would people feel about a version of a Summoner that calls up a Magic Weapon rather then an Eidolon? I figure you'd start with a basic weapon template:
One Handed 1d8 20/x2 at Blunt, Piercing, or Slashing.
You can have it active as a Swift action a number of times per day equal to 10 + Cha + Summoner Level (I want them to be able to have it when necessary, but not all the time). You can use Evolution points to buy it a two light weapons, a two handed weapon, reach weapon, a double weapon, etc. for a certain number of Evo. points. You could buy other enhancements to to increase damage, threat range, crit multiplier, make the weapon B/P or S/P, etc. You'd also be able to purchase magic enhancements at 1 point/per enhancement plus and the max enhancement you could buy would be 1/2 your summoner level. Other enhancements would include extending the number of rounds you could have the weapon.
Would people be interested in playing this variant?
It sounds interesting. If I wanted to be a walking armory I'd definitely play it.
Maybe have some Evolutions for mithral/silver, cold iron, and adamantine?
Those would definately be in. I was also thinking that the weapons would be intelligent. One thing I was think was cutting out some appropriate parts of the Summoner class to give bonuses and RP elements based on the Weapon's personality (things like Daredevil, Protector, Judge). Of course that would be a lot of work to do.
Don't see any reason the Summoner couldn't summon more construct-style things for an Eidolon. Might even be able to do it with the current rules and just have it be a new base form, add in a few new evolutions and bam your done.
I don't see why you couldn't do it either, I'm just aiming for summoning an actual weapon. It might be a good way to do a mad inventor character.
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How would people feel about a version of a Summoner that calls up a Magic Weapon rather then an Eidolon? I figure you'd start with a basic weapon template:
One Handed 1d8 20/x2 at Blunt, Piercing, or Slashing.
You can have it active as a Swift action a number of times per day equal to 10 + Cha + Summoner Level (I want them to be able to have it when necessary, but not all the time). You can use Evolution points to buy it a two light weapons, a two handed weapon, reach weapon, a double weapon, etc. for a certain number of Evo. points. You could buy other enhancements to to increase damage, threat range, crit multiplier, make the weapon B/P or S/P, etc. You'd also be able to purchase magic enhancements at 1 point/per enhancement plus and the max enhancement you could buy would be 1/2 your summoner level. Other enhancements would include extending the number of rounds you could have the weapon.
Would people be interested in playing this variant?
It's a neat idea, but personally it is a bit close to a Soulknife for me (though if you don't use/allow psionics, that's a bit of a moot point)
I was working on one of these, but my "weapon base forms" were light 1d6 20/x2, one-handed 1d8 20/X2, and two-handed 2d6 20/X2. and you could get evolutions to improve damage, make it a double weapon, reach, etc. couldn't apply normal enchantments though.
I like the idea. Cutting some of the powers from the summoner that are about interacting with the eidolon you could have the ability to change the eidolon into one of a number of preset forms (you have a sword, unsummon and summon again you have a spear). Or maybe you can split points and have two summons: weapons and armor...
The spell list would have to be redesigned since it is oriented to aid and empower the eidolon. I think I can adapt a little something to replace the summon monster spell-likes from a Barrier class I've seen around the forum...
If you start this alternate class to the summoner can I help? I think we can make a Fantasy Green Lantern out of this...
I think we can make a Fantasy Green Lantern out of this...
Of course this means the Yellow chromatic dragon has to come into the mainstream :D.
@AlanM: Honestly the Soulblade was the only class I really liked from the 3.5 Psionics. The major difference though would be that the weapon would be a full on physical manifestation. The actual power source would be left vague so DMs and Players could make their own variations easily like an ancient magical experiment to make super soldiers, a symbiotic spirit being, or just a variation on magic or psionic. My inspiriation is coming from various sources like King Arthur and Excaliber (or really any of those wielder/weapon combos), a story my brother has been working on, the Soulblade/Psi Sword, what I know of the Bleach comic book, etc.
@Kierato: I would rather have a single handed weapon as the base line rather then letting some one start with a Two-hander or 2 Light Weapons myself. It seems more appropriate to me. I was toying with idea of adding things like a Range Weapon option or a sword and board combo, but I'm not sure that would work to well. I do think going with the magical enhancements is a good way to go though.
@VM mercenario: I was viewing this idea as an alternate class because of all the changes that would need to be made. While having some link powers might be good (I was thinking things like using the weapon to "see" around corners) they could probably be done with Evolutionary Points. The Summon Monster abilities I was planning on throwing out, along with most of the spells too. Buff spells might not be a bad way to go.
What I'd put in place is still up in the air, but here are some of the ideas that I've had: One would be to have a certain number of Evolutionary points that you can change. If you had this ability at 2, you could switch out 1 2pt ability or 2 1pt abilities. I do want the weapons to be intelligent because I've always liked that, but rather then a Magic Item that could take control, these are part of the character so it won't screw you over. I was thinking that the weapon has a particular personality trait that provided benefits when summoned. For instance, a Defender weapon might grant the user Improved Aid at a basic level when summoned.
This is actually an interesting build to put into Ultimate Combat.
That aside, I wouldn't necessarily allow a player to re-summon a weapon to change what it is. Making it a specific form for the duration of X, where the summoner can reallocate points when preparing spells. On the fly (sort of), makes this build pretty powerful.
Or templates like:
Sword 'n Board: Summon a 1-handed weapon and a shield
Two Weapons: Summon 2 light weapons
Reach: Summon some sort of polearm
Two-handed
Bow
And allow the summoner to also summon armor. Allow points to be put into both armor and weapon(s), not two different pools, to make armor go from light to medium (for more benefits) or increase the weapons threat range. This way the summoner can tool the weapon/armor combo to specific fights, but not as over powered it may be on the fly. Playtest could prove otherwise, ofc.
Bit like the old rolemaster chaos warrior
he could summon things to bind to his weapons and armour....so giving him poisoned weapons etc and demonic abilities to his armours
I like it as an alternate base form for an eidolon with a separate evolution pool, especially starting with the 1h and upgrading from there. Summoner is the anime class, and summoning the intelligent weapon is about as common as summoning the protector in that genre. Including the weapon stat upgrades like 2h, reach, light, damage, crits, ranged, others could provide armor, deflection, resistance, and intelligent item options. Ego motivation default would be bloodthirsty berserk, but they could run the gambit of defender, judge, sadist, etc. Yup, I think it's a great idea to fill that soulknife niche, sort of a magus summoner hybrid.
This is actually an interesting build to put into Ultimate Combat.
That aside, I wouldn't necessarily allow a player to re-summon a weapon to change what it is. Making it a specific form for the duration of X, where the summoner can reallocate points when preparing spells. On the fly (sort of), makes this build pretty powerful.
Or templates like:
Sword 'n Board: Summon a 1-handed weapon and a shield
Two Weapons: Summon 2 light weapons
Reach: Summon some sort of polearm
Two-handed
BowAnd allow the summoner to also summon armor. Allow points to be put into both armor and weapon(s), not two different pools, to make armor go from light to medium (for more benefits) or increase the weapons threat range. This way the summoner can tool the weapon/armor combo to specific fights, but not as over powered it may be on the fly. Playtest could prove otherwise, ofc.
One thing I was considering with changing Evo. Points when summoning was that doing this would cut down on the rounds you have it, possibly by a like amount. Also I was figuring on capping it at 5pts you could move around at the top end. It's more to keep the weapon useful in any situation then completely redesigning it each and every time.
Armor though wasn't something I really want as part of this, myself. I think weapons tend to fit better in this class as you have several martial arts (and I mean any form of martial training) teaches you to make the weapon an extension of your body. It seems more personal to me. Armor you are really just trained to tolerate. That said, I could see an archetype of this in some games that are essentially power armor pilots, were the armor is the weapon. I've also started to want archetypes of the the basic Summoner with mechanical or necromantic bents.
This is actually an interesting build to put into Ultimate Combat.
That aside, I wouldn't necessarily allow a player to re-summon a weapon to change what it is. Making it a specific form for the duration of X, where the summoner can reallocate points when preparing spells. On the fly (sort of), makes this build pretty powerful.
Or templates like:
Sword 'n Board: Summon a 1-handed weapon and a shield
Two Weapons: Summon 2 light weapons
Reach: Summon some sort of polearm
Two-handed
BowAnd allow the summoner to also summon armor. Allow points to be put into both armor and weapon(s), not two different pools, to make armor go from light to medium (for more benefits) or increase the weapons threat range. This way the summoner can tool the weapon/armor combo to specific fights, but not as over powered it may be on the fly. Playtest could prove otherwise, ofc.
Crap, must of hit cancel by accident. I'm in a rush so here are the cliff notes:
* I was thinking of a tax on the rounds you can have for changing the weapon, similar to Barbarian's and Rage powers.* I was going to cap the Evo. Point change to 5pts at the top end.
* I don't really want to add armor for them too, personally.
* I can see a "Power Armor" Archetype for the class though.
* Since we're talking of an Archetype already, I'm getting even more interested in Morgen's idea of a Construct summoner off the bassic Summoner and a Necromantic one would be easy after that.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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* Since we're talking of an Archetype already, I'm getting even more interested in Morgen's idea of a Construct summoner off the bassic Summoner and a Necromantic one would be easy after that.
I already have a construct version which is still being balanced. One of my players gave me a necromantic version a few weeks ago he wants for his next character. The necromantic version uses a copy of the players skeleton as a base and uses the standard skeleton template. He can add powers to the primary skeleton and/or bring forth additional base skeletons without abilities.
One thing I was thinking was having a base line weapon that you could summon consistantly with out eating up your summoned time and having a small selection of Evo. Points that apply (probably topping out at 5). I don't want to leave these guys useless if they run out of rounds for their weapon that's why I'm suggesting it.
Another idea that I'm not sure on is having a select number of specific feats. These would be certain feats that fighters get specifically for the summoned weapon and not as quickly as fighters can get them. I'm suggesting this as I've run out of ideas to add as the class gets almost completely gutted.
One thing I was thinking was having a base line weapon that you could summon consistantly with out eating up your summoned time and having a small selection of Evo. Points that apply (probably topping out at 5). I don't want to leave these guys useless if they run out of rounds for their weapon that's why I'm suggesting it.
Another idea that I'm not sure on is having a select number of specific feats. These would be certain feats that fighters get specifically for the summoned weapon and not as quickly as fighters can get them. I'm suggesting this as I've run out of ideas to add as the class gets almost completely gutted.
Also, I already put up an Eldritch Blade Archtpe for the fighter HERE, which seems similar to what you are talking about.
Ok, here is a very rough copy. Let me know what you think:
Bearer
1: Cantrips, Legacy, Awaken Legacy
2: Personality Trait
3: Ego 1
4: Legacy Focus
5: ?
6: Personality Trait
7: Ego 2
8: Legacy Specialization
9: ?
10: Personality Trait
11: Ego 3
12: Greater Legacy Focus
13: ?
14: Personality Trait
15: Ego 4
16: Greater Legacy Specializaton
17: ?
18: Personality Trait
19: Ego 5
20: Capstone?
Cantrips: as normal.
Legacy: This would be the basic weapon form 1d8 20/x2 and your choice of B, P, or S. The appearance is up to the player. You can summon it as a Full Round (?) Action. You can have it summoned for as long as you are conscious and can re-summon it if it gets destroyed.
Awaken Legacy: This is were you’d get the upgrades you bought with Evolution Points. Awakening is a Swift Action (?) and you may have your Legacy awake for a number of rounds equal to 3+Cha+Bearer level.
Personality Trait: All Legacies have a personality of their own but compliment their wielder. There would be a selection of personalities types to choose from for your Legacy. Every time you get a Personality Trait you get the bonus listed under the Personality.
Ego: This allows you to manifest certain aspects of your Legacy while it sleeps. You get an Evolutionary Point to apply to your Legacy while it is manifested but isn’t Awake equal to the number listed.
Legacy Feats: the Feats list apply to the Legacy whether awake or asleep.
I like it so far.
Seems like a neat idea. Maybe give it an intelligent weapon at 1st level, and upgrade it at levels 2-20. Replace summon monster 1-9 and gate with a free action summoning of a thrown weapon that lasts 1 round, usable 3 + Cha mod times a day, with a +1 bonus per level of the replaced summon monster spell (+10 for gate).
Outside of flavor, how is this different from the wizard's bonded item or a magus's blackblade Archtype?