Let me preface by introducing myself as a complete stranger to PFRPG, I have never played nor GM'd it before in my life, but I've been looking to get back to GMing after about 10 years, after reading up (and playing) 4e and 3.5e, I thought PFRPG would be an interesting game. So, we have a GM who haven't GM'd in 10 years, and never actually played the system at all.
Planning to run Kingmaker, I had my players roll for character stas, and they all got HUGE number, I mean they average between 15 and 16 per stat, which actually works more like a couple of 18's some 17's and nothing below a 10.
So the question is, for all you other GM's how would you handle this? Just let it all stand, and adjust the campaign? Or ask for re-rolls? Maybe switch to point-buy (which I never even new existed since the last game I'd played was AD&D 2e, and find it a little weird, but it does give what seems to be a little more rounded, if cookie cutter, character)?
Well any advice would be welcome...
I've just started kingmaker and my group rolls stats in a way that gets them above average stats I think so far the lowest is a 12. I just go with it and see what happens, I have in the past changed things up by +1cr or so if their finding things too easy but never had massive problems.
I would say just run it and see what happens.
So they all just happened to roll amazing stats first time? Sounds like a bunch of players trying to take advantage of a new DM TBH.
I disagree with the wait and see approach, its 100x easier to stop problems before they occur than trying to do it later.
APs are designed around 4 players with 15 point stats. You can of course adjust encounters to suit higher points arrays but it sounds like your "lucky" players rolled 30 points plus. This is going to create immense balance problems that are only going to get worse over time.
So whats easier for you as a new PF DM trying to get a handle on the rules: playing the AP as closely as possible to as written or basically redoing every encounter so they don't romp all over everything?
I would tell them simply that you've looked at the AP and it is balanced for 15 pt characters. Accordingly, you feel that the amount of work required to rebalance the AP for their stat arrays is beyond what you are prepared to spend. If you feel like being nice tell them you've opted to allow then 20 pt builds.
Honestly if they whine at that point, I'd ask them whether they want to play the game or not.
My players have refused every attempt to switch to a point buy, and we use a fairly generous rolling system, so it goes without saying that we usually have above average stats. That said...
It's not a problem but you do have to work with it.
First off, each class only has one or maybe two attributes that determine combat effectiveness. Maybe three- that's for the MAD classes. A Fighter with a strength of 20 is more powerful than a fighter of the same level with a strength of 16. Period. If those same two fighters have two different charisma scores, it won't really matter.
Second off, the most powerful classes don't need all-around good attributes, so it kind of levels the playing field. This is usually a major issue, balance between characters, but this tends to help, not hurt party balance.
Now here's what you need to fix- your characters with better stats are better at killing, that's the biggest problem. Some would just use higher CR adversaries, but that gives the players more XP, moving things along much quicker. Here's what I do: all enemies have MAXed health- since the biggest benefit to higher stats is being better at killing, make the enemies harder to kill. It's worked for me so far.
Now here's what you need to fix- your characters with better stats are better at killing, that's the biggest problem. Some would just use higher CR adversaries, but that gives the players more XP, moving things along much quicker. Here's what I do: all enemies have MAXed health- since the biggest benefit to higher stats is being better at killing, make the enemies harder to kill. It's worked for me so far.
An option I use quite a bit to compensate for high stat characters is applying the Advanced simple template (quick rules) to opponents as needed without increasing xp given (my call).
I'm currently running campaign, and my home rules regarding character creation allows for above average stats, so I have some experience in coming up with challenges for a powerful group.
Some quick methods I use:
- Applying the Advanced template, either using the quick rules or rebuilding if I have time.
- Increase number of enemies. I try to get the enemies to use a lot of team-based tactics, such as flanking.
- Alter encounters to take advantage of PCs weaknesses, such as low saves, low touch AC, etc. I don't do this too often since it can get pretty cheesy if it happens all the time, and it takes some time to build. Even when I do it, I try to keep my encounters thematically consistent, so as to be a legitimately plausible encounter.
Funnily enough, I hadn't even considered the Max Health option. I may try that in the next few encounters.
Usually, this increases the XP gain, so I recommend using the Slow XP advancement rate.
Thank you all for the insight...loads to think about, before I make a final decision...
Here's what I do: all enemies have MAXed health- since the biggest benefit to higher stats is being better at killing, make the enemies harder to kill. It's worked for me so far.
I do this almost by default at this point. Otherwise, many things wouldn't even get a second turn. Given that most monsters have between 50% and 70% of their maximum health, and they don't have the reserve of negative hitpoints to fall back on (unless they regenerate or there's a healer with them, there's no point to tracking those), maxing is a good way to add a bit of challenge without making the monster actually harder.